Dawes-man

Hello from Tokyo. I'm a new convert to cycling in general and to Campagnolo parts in particular. I've been riding a 1982 Dawes for the past 4 years, the first bike that's ever made me go, 'Wow! This is fun.'

In the past few weeks I've become enamoured of 1970s steel frame bikes and bought 2 Trex frames (a 78 and an 82, both 700 series), a 1976 Mercian frame and a 1978 Woodrup bicycle with a complete Nuovo Record groupset plus a complete Super Record groupset that I intend to fit to the frames I've bought, one after the other, in order to find out what they ride like.

The thing is, I can't find out what the difference between Nuovo Record and Super Record parts is. At the time, was one better and/or more expensive than the other, or was it just a case of them being designed for different applications... like touring and racing?

I'm sure someone here can cast light on this... I'd be very grateful for any info.

Thanks!

East Hill

Hi Dawes-man, we can help!

Welcome to BF!

East Hill

orangepaint

Super Record came later than Nuovo Record though I think they also sold at the same time. Super Record is the technologically superior group.

Antipodes

Depends on the era and depends on what part you are referring to. I think Super Record was always the top of the line above Nuovo. For instance, an early Super Record crankset is the same as a Nuovo Record, with the only difference being in the actual chainrings. I'm not much of a Campy guy, so I'll leave it to the others like Cyclotoine and Marengo to help you out...

nuovorecord

Generally speaking, Super Record components had a nicer finish, and were a bit lighter than Nuovo Record. A Super Record rear derailleur, for example, had a ti mounting bolt (for most of its years of existence, I believe.)

dbakl

Functionally, I doubt there's much difference other than some weight savings. Super Record had some titanium parts at times, the inner spider on the chainrings was removed (copying what racers were already doing) the rear derailler cage was redesigned to wrap a little more chain, the pedal cages were alloy, the seatpost was fluted, the brake levers were drilled and the front derailler cage had some holes.

cyclotoine

This is totally untrue.

dbakl has given a good generality of the difference an I feel that typing out a large description of the differences over the years is more than anyone wants to do on a forum.
Please see:
https://www.campyonly.com/history.html
and study the catalogs at:
https://www.campyonly.com/history/catalogs.html

Generally speaking they are both racing groups, but super record was more expensive due to the slight weight savings and the more expensive titanium parts, which at times included the BB spindle, pedal spindles and the upper and lower pivot bolts of the rear derailleur as well as the parallelogram pins (some people say).

As dbakl mentions the fluted seatpost, and slimmer chainrings (well actually the nuovo record 42 is claimed to be lighter) titanium bits, drilled brake levers etc were supposed to save some weight.

The finish was equal on both and they shared many of the same pieces (brake calipers, crank arms, hubs etc)... though there may be some titanium hub axles out there too, I am not sure. In general, I think that the nuovo record rear derailleur is the most elegant bike component ever made and in general a full nuovo record group with steel pedals is more pleasing to the eye as it it more shinny and has a slightly more "old fashioned" look.

Picchio Special

Just to be precise, as to pedals, Super Record pedals had Ti spindles. Most Super Record bikes, however, came with SL pedals, as did many Nuovo Record-equipped bikes in the 70's-80's, and SL pedals, like SR pedals, have alloy cages. Record pedals do have steel cages. So the real distinguishing feature of the Super Record pedals is the spindles, not the cages.
Both Super Record and Nuovo Record post CPSC front derailleurs have holes. Initially, the Record front derailleur was replaced by a four-hole model that I believe would have appeared on both Nuovo Record and Super Record bikes*. Then came the three hole model, at which point the Super Record front became distinguished by a black rather than silver pivot arm. There may have been a period where the new three-hole derailleur with silver arm was used on both NR and SR equipped bikes, or perhaps the black arms appeared at the same time as the three holes. In either case, the distinguishing feature of SR vs. NR was not the number of holes, but the black vs. silver arm.
Also, to again nit pick, Super Record moved to second-from-the-top of the Campagnolo lineup when C-Record was introduced.
Cosmetically, I agree with Cyclotoine that the Nuovo Record rear derailleur is one of the most beautiful ever made, and aesthetically superior to the SR. I am partial, OTOH, to the fluted seatposts and drilled brakes levers of the SR group. I like the look of the Record (silver steel cage) pedals as well, and the original Record front derailleur. On balance, I prefer Nuovo Record/Record for looks, but it can depend upon what frame they're hung on.
* There's also some question as to whether the first post-CPSC Record derailleur was a no-hole cage with a lawyer lip, a model that later appeared with the Nuovo G.S. group. I've seen at least one bike that is all Nuovo Record and has this front derailleur, so I'm inclined to believe this was the case, either for a short time or sporadically.

caterham

+1


Essentially Record/Nuovo Record was the top of the line road group for general racing purposes. Super Record components were first intended as lightweight adjuncts to the Record group for special events or where extreme durability wasn't a priority, with finish quality being essentially identical to Record/NR. Many of the SR pieces didn't loose any significant usable functionality and durability over Record/NR and gradually became an accepted norm for racing. and were often sold as a full group most commonly
referred to as the Super Record Reduced Gruppo :
(Record crankarms & Btm-bkt, calipers, with SR chainrings,derailleurs, seatpost, headset,levers,etc plus the aluminum caged Nuovo Record SL pedals )
Subsequently a few pieces were added to the SR lineup that only featured cosmetic changes such as the black armed SR front derailleur & SR brake levers* and when new top of the line models having major revisions were introduced they were also given the SR nomenclature-ex SR rear derailleur

* the drillings of the SR brake lever were supposed to improve functionality by providing better grip in wet conditions and not for lightening- mostly they were purchased for aesthetics as they were actually slightly heavier to maintain reliability.

Road Fan

SR was above NR in the years when they were both sold.

Road Fan

caterham

in terms of function, the only SR component that actually performed better than their Record/Nuovo Record equivalents were the later SR rear derailleurs with their very slightly revised cage geometry.
The SR ti btm bkt was less durable and significantly more flexible,- the SR ti pedals were less durable/reliable,esp with larger riders,- the SR headset required more precise and frequent maintainence and were more easily damaged.Cranksets were essentially the same in performance tho at the time, some felt that the SR chainrings might possibly be more prone to flexing than NR. It was common to see pro racers using SR outers in combination with NR inner rings.- Brakes were for all intents identical in function/performance as were the front derailleurs-the SR single bolt seatpost was more difficult to fine adjust but preferred for its aesthetics.
The various Rally rear derailleurs were designed as long cage touring units with the offset pivot versions being the best performing touring derailleurs in the series

Dawes-man

Thank you for the welcome, East Hill! Empathy is excellent... I've been trying it for a while now. And everyone who has taken the time to post comments - thank you for the enlightening comments!

Before coming here I'd read all the Campy history and timeline stuff on campyonly, and downloaded all the catalogues from 1955 to1984 and looked through them, but found myself little the wiser as to the pros and cons of the various Campy lines, while the comments here have really helped me to understand a lot. Another plus of what you have said is that it will make it easier for me to go back and make more sense of the stuff on campyonly. Many thanks.

I'm glad I finally got around to subscribing to this forum. Over the past 3 weeks or so I've done so many searches for info on bikes and parts that have brought up this site and it had already given me a lot of very good info - it seems to be the main place for anything bicycle. I'm sure I'll have many other questions over the next few months as I sink deeper into this bottomless pit of bicycle obsession :-)

Thanks again everyone!

East Hill

Whilst we're at it, check out our very own cuda2k's website velobase.com. Very handy!

East Hill

Dawes-man

East Hill, that is one great website! Thanks!

ridethecliche

I've got nothing to say about the campy parts except that they're awesome!
But, I've got to add that the trek 700 series bikes are really cool! Can you post up pictures of them? I did my first real restoration on a 84 trek 760 and would love to see what the other 700's in the same time period looked like!

Dawes-man

"I've got nothing to say about the campy parts except that they're awesome!
But, I've got to add that the trek 700 series bikes are really cool! Can you post up pictures of them? I did my first real restoration on a 84 trek 760 and would love to see what the other 700's in the same time period looked like!"

Again, I'm waiting for them to arrive as I've only just bought them but I will once they arrive. In the meantime, if you don't already know about it, this is a GREAT website for all things Trek. There are some pics in the 'Gallery' of some beautiful bikes:
https://www.vintage-trek.com/

Dawes-man

It's next day now. I spent 15 minutes or so trying to figure out how to post a photo of Mr S, it was half 2 in the morning, and I couldn't figure it out. Is it possible?

ridethecliche

Thanks!
I've been to that website, but the seller I bought the trek from also gave me the original sales receipt and the catalog from 84 so I have all the info about my bike on hand!

Dawes-man

Never mind! I've created a Flickr account and uploaded a couple of picks there of Mr S.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/

Dawes-man

Hi ridethecliche... so you've seen all those bikes in the Gallery. Some of them are beautiful, huh? Do you have any photos of your Trek? I'd love to see them.

Butcher

Ohiyo, Dawes-man san,
Greating from Kent, WA. When I was young I used to live in Tokyo and visited my favorite bike shop, Narushima Frend. I often visited their shop in Tachikawa in 1978 and bought several SR components from them [for my '78 Tom Ritchie frame]. SR parts are much better for people who have the money to purchase them. I recently saw a first version rear derailleur go for $350.00 in eBay. Although the SR pedals are similar to appearence to the superleggera version, they are not. Yes, SR's have titanium spindles but the bearings are also smaller. So you cannot change the spindle to the other version since the cages have the larger races. Others are correct with their comments. I am not an expert but I was very into Campy components and mowing yards to buy them in the late 70's and early 80's [not in Tokyo since there is not much grass there]. Living in Tokyo only brings fond memories but add Campy with Tokyo brings back much more [A 180k ride to Kagosaka Pass Nalsima Hideo is just one of them].

East Hill

Butcher! Where are you located? I would imagine you can figure out where I am .

Where do you ride?

Welcome to BikeForums!

East Hill

Butcher

Not to hyjack this thread but the EastHill name was already taken. Just off James on a street called Lenora. Lived here for 15 years but took my 30+ year bike out recently. It seems that the old bike is a vintage but after checking it out, it is a rare vintage at that.
Bought a blue Kuwahara tandem [soon to be loaded with Campy goodness] and although my son and I have not riden it much [bought it late '07] you may see us coming down James [the last 1/3] fast and up it very slow much more this Spring and Summer.

East Hill

You are just about four miles away from me. I'm over by Kentridge HS. I'll keep an eye out for you. I can be seen on the Interurban Trail and Big Soos Creek Trail on a fairly regular basis.

You couldn't get the name East Hill because I already claimed it .

East Hill

luker

beautiful photographs! That would be, in my limited understanding, a San Rensho Allez, btw. The frames are very nice...the 730 a very nice bike and I'm sure that you'll like it (much like the Dawes, really). I dunno anything about where you are situated; is the riding good there?

And once again, you should consider yourself fortunate to have a master mechanic handy. The steel bike skills are becoming more and more arcane every day...