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Was it unfair?

Old 10-02-19, 07:08 PM
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one4smoke
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Was it unfair?

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/eek...qualification/
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Old 10-02-19, 09:12 PM
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aclinjury
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rules are rules.
But they should have DQ'd him during the race, not wait for him to win and then DQ'd him. Incompetent jury.
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Old 10-03-19, 04:47 AM
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The video had him drafting forever, and if I recall he passed a few riders while doing it. But he was returning after crashing right? I think they made the right call.

What a bummer though, and he still put in alot of effort to chase back on, then win.

Edited after re reading: geeze he chased back on with 130km to go after relocating his shoulder and getting a replacement bike? Ehhh I dunno, how did they let Roglic chase back in after crashing in the Vuelta when Valverde attacked but not here?

Last edited by GrainBrain; 10-03-19 at 04:51 AM.
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Old 10-03-19, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
rules are rules.
Are they?
"The rider was disqualified for sheltering behind a vehicle (4.7 of article 2.12.007) for over 2 minutes." https://www.uci.org/inside-uci/press...f-nils-eekhoff

"4.7 Sheltering behind or taking advantage of the slipstream of a vehicleRider:
100 fine per infringement
Driver: 200 fine per infringement
Sport director responsible for the vehicle: 200 fine per infringement
In addition to the above provisions, in serious cases, in cases of repeated infringement or aggravating circumstances, the Commissaires’ Panel may eliminate or disqualify a rider and/or exclude a licence holder."
https://www.uci.org/docs/default-source/rules-and-regulations/part-ii-road/2-roa-20190924-e.pdf?sfvrsn=a98f95fb_2

So since rules are rules, when, precisely, does a case become serious?And since rules are rules, why wasn't 2.12.003 invoked? Under what circumstances does 2.12.007 take precedence over 2.12.003?

Maybe rules are so vague, no one can reasonably know what is allowed and what the penalties will be?
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Old 10-03-19, 08:08 PM
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aclinjury
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Are they?
"The rider was disqualified for sheltering behind a vehicle (4.7 of article 2.12.007) for over 2 minutes." https://www.uci.org/inside-uci/press...f-nils-eekhoff

"4.7 Sheltering behind or taking advantage of the slipstream of a vehicleRider:
100 fine per infringement
Driver: 200 fine per infringement
Sport director responsible for the vehicle: 200 fine per infringement
In addition to the above provisions, in serious cases, in cases of repeated infringement or aggravating circumstances, the Commissairesí Panel may eliminate or disqualify a rider and/or exclude a licence holder."
https://www.uci.org/docs/default-source/rules-and-regulations/part-ii-road/2-roa-20190924-e.pdf?sfvrsn=a98f95fb_2

So since rules are rules, when, precisely, does a case become serious?And since rules are rules, why wasn't 2.12.003 invoked? Under what circumstances does 2.12.007 take precedence over 2.12.003?

Maybe rules are so vague, no one can reasonably know what is allowed and what the penalties will be?
The way I look at these rules are similar to road traffic rules. The cops may throw one or multiple infractions at you, depending on his mood. Nicer cops may give you a warning. But if you break the rules, then expect consequences. My stance is they should have DQ'd the kid and not let him become the winner and then DQ'd him.
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Old 10-08-19, 04:10 PM
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Doge
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Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
rules are rules....
They are not enforced uniformly. From sticky bottle to drafting cars, to getting equipment from other than your team and all kinds of stuff in between.
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Old 10-09-19, 07:15 AM
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Yeah...that's like ending a football game, then coming back and changing the outcome because of a video review after the game.

But I'd say he abused the car following. But if you let him race the whole thing that's on the UCI.
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Old 10-09-19, 07:17 AM
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Agree...if I could see it on Olympic Channel, certainly the officials could see it.
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Old 10-09-19, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
They are not enforced uniformly. From sticky bottle to drafting cars, to getting equipment from other than your team and all kinds of stuff in between.
But ZOMG! Sock length!!!!!!
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Old 10-09-19, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
Yeah...that's like ending a football game, then coming back and changing the outcome because of a video review after the game.

But I'd say he abused the car following. But if you let him race the whole thing that's on the UCI.
Yeah, stop it then, or let it slide.
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Old 10-09-19, 08:46 AM
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This isn't UCI but this race had several UCI racers in it and some future (current now) WT racers. Chico SR P1 and riders just expect to be allowed to draft back to the pack. This is right in front of the officials and completely unfair. I don't blame the rider for doing this, especially with the officials watching, but no wonder kids get confused.
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Old 10-09-19, 08:50 AM
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I *think* there is agreement that this is on the officials, not the riders. If riders are not taking advantage of what the officials allow they are going to be severely handicapped. I don't think they can really be competitive obeying all the rules when others don't. Its not cheating if everyone is doing it - and the officials allow it.
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Old 10-09-19, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
I *think* there is agreement that this is on the officials, not the riders. If riders are not taking advantage of what the officials allow they are going to be severely handicapped. I don't think they can really be competitive obeying all the rules when others don't. Its not cheating if everyone is doing it - and the officials allow it.
I'd argue it is cheating, but, if everyone else is doing it and getting away with it, doing it is a calculated risk. It's kind of like the highway on my commute home. The posted limit is 55, but even the slowest lane has an average of more like 70. I go with the flow of traffic because I know that's safer and I only see someone pulled over for speed enforcement 3-4 times a year, but, if I get pulled over, I'll know I was breaking the law.
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Old 10-09-19, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by himespau View Post
I'd argue it is cheating, but, if everyone else is doing it and getting away with it, doing it is a calculated risk. It's kind of like the highway on my commute home. The posted limit is 55, but even the slowest lane has an average of more like 70. I go with the flow of traffic because I know that's safer and I only see someone pulled over for speed enforcement 3-4 times a year, but, if I get pulled over, I'll know I was breaking the law.
In CA we have the basic speed law and you can legally go 40 in a posted 35 - if a road survey shows 80% of the others were doing it (up to the absolute speed limits). You may have to argue it, but it is allowed.

The concept of everyone doing it is common in sports. It gets stopped only when the officials want to stop it. This stuff is hugely significant IMO. Thousands of spectators line the Paris-Roubaix route with spares to give to pros who are in trouble. Pros take those spares when needed. Maybe the race says to ignore that UCI rule, but I think it is just ignored. Same with feeds, nature breaks etc. Rules are broken, but I don't call them cheaters. They are doing what the event and everyone expects. At some subjective point based on the subjective opinions of the officials it becomes too much. And someone is penalized. I still wouldn't call them cheating.
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Old 10-11-19, 05:31 AM
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When I was racing, I was told to make an effort to get out from behind the car occasionally and you'll be good. Sitting behind it with no effort
to get out from behind and doing it for a long time..he should have been warned first. If he ignored it then he's dq'd on the road.

It's like sticky bottles. Don't hang on for too long.

The medical car is the only place to get a pull unless you have a mechanical and then it's got to be real. Like a derailleur adjustment, or a seat or something.If it's a long deal you pull over.

He rode along behind that car for one reason only. But the call should have been before the kid finished and thought he'd won. But half the UCI folks I've run into don't look like they have ever ridden a bike. They just have a lot of money and want to look cool and be involved.
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Old 10-11-19, 06:21 AM
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... he should have been warned first.
Absolutely. And to see this, right on the heels of the Bernal TDF win ("let's give everyone their time at the top of the mountain and this determines the outcome the entire 3 week stage race") really makes me much less of a fan. The person with the fastest time should win. Not the person that the UCI "likes best" that who is "allowed by the UCI" to win. This ain't supposed to be a popularity contest.
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