Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Training & Nutrition
Reload this Page >

Weight training plus cycling - what's the right combo? days on, days off etc

Notices
Training & Nutrition Learn how to develop a training schedule that's good for you. What should you eat and drink on your ride? Learn everything you need to know about training and nutrition here.

Weight training plus cycling - what's the right combo? days on, days off etc

Old 08-18-19, 09:45 AM
  #51  
Hermes
Version 3.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 11,465

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 287 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 590 Post(s)
Liked 79 Times in 60 Posts
Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
I think the point was there is value in specificity of training. If you want to improve your sprint on the bike you’re probably better off spending your time sprinting on the bike than in the gym. If you’re a pro or retired with unlimited time available then there could be value in augmenting on the bike training with gym work but for most time restricted athletes working on the bike is probably a more efficient use of time provided you are ‘working’ on the bike and not just riding around.

Intersting article: Comparison of short-sprint and heavy strength training on cycling performance
HST is great for the standing start where one needs max force at zero speed. Craig Maclean may have been the best leadoff man in team sprint anchored by Hoy. Note the other two riders have the banking to assist accelerating their bike whereas the starter is in the start gate and not much banking to use to get the bike rolling from zero. I suspect these guys are in 108 gear inches or more.

Track sprinters are generally 50/50 between the weight room and the track. I like strength training on the bike and use standing starts, seated starts, flying and seated jumps and other sprints such as flying 100, 125 and 150 meters. I do some leg strength in the gym but generally add box jumps after lifting so that the muscles get popped by the fast motion of the jump and therefor learn to relax fast after contraction.

Hermes is offline  
Old 08-18-19, 02:03 PM
  #52  
gregf83 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 8,840
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 961 Post(s)
Liked 61 Times in 40 Posts
Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Oh c'mon Greg. That study shows you don't get better at riding your bike if you don't ride your bike. The gentle reader might want to search for Forstemann on youtube and see how an Olympic gold medalist trained. Or watch Peter Sagan work out in the gym. Here's a good article from Sagan's coach: Peter Sagan shows how he boosts his power with gym work | Cyclingnews.com
No, the study shows that short sprints are more effective then heavy strength training that's all. Heavy strength training is better than strictly low intensity riding but it's not clear it's any better (and in this study it's worse) than sprinting on the bike.

Forstemann's training is not really applicable to non-track cyclists who don't need to do standing starts from 0 RPM. And Peter falls into the pro cyclist category training 1000+ hrs on the bike per year. Once I reaches 1000+ hrs in a year I'll start adding in gym work
gregf83 is offline  
Old 08-18-19, 02:05 PM
  #53  
gregf83 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 8,840
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 961 Post(s)
Liked 61 Times in 40 Posts
Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
HST is great for the standing start where one needs max force at zero speed.
100% agree with that. Track sprinters probably don't spend many hours on the bike compared to a road cyclist.
gregf83 is offline  
Old 08-18-19, 03:29 PM
  #54  
McNamara
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 21

Bikes: Orbea Orca and a cheap steel frame road bike of indeterminate origin

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
No, the study shows that short sprints are more effective then heavy strength training that's all. Heavy strength training is better than strictly low intensity riding but it's not clear it's any better (and in this study it's worse) than sprinting on the bike.

Not quite. From the abstract:


"After a 4-weeks preparation strength-training period, the participants were randomized to add either HST or SST to their usual endurance training for the subsequent 6 weeks."


We don't know if the heavy strength training group did any sort of speed work at all, but it would seem that the groups did only endurance work and either weights or sprints for the last six weeks. In any case, both groups did strength training for the first four weeks. I wonder how the results would have differed if the group that did short-sprint training had not hit the gym first.


Peter falls into the pro cyclist category training 1000+ hrs on the bike per year. Once I reaches 1000+ hrs in a year I'll start adding in gym work

You don't have to be a pro to benefit from strength training. I'd argue that anyone who ever pins on a number should give lifting a try.
McNamara is offline  
Likes For McNamara:
Old 08-19-19, 10:43 AM
  #55  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 19,483
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8525 Post(s)
Liked 460 Times in 271 Posts
Every cyclist who is also a human will benefit from strength training. For basic health reasons, and to counter the damage road cycling does to our bone density.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Likes For Seattle Forrest:
Old 08-21-19, 08:47 AM
  #56  
CyclingFever
I got a fever.
 
CyclingFever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked 16 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by seattle forrest View Post
every cyclist who is also a human will benefit from strength training. For basic health reasons, and to counter the damage road cycling does to our bone density.
+1
CyclingFever is offline  
Likes For CyclingFever:
Old 08-21-19, 04:43 PM
  #57  
wolfchild
Senior Member
 
wolfchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 5,610

Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1387 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 78 Times in 47 Posts
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Every cyclist who is also a human will benefit from strength training. For basic health reasons, and to counter the damage road cycling does to our bone density.
For me it's also about maintaining a reasonable amount of upper body strength, speed, explosive power and work capacity.
wolfchild is offline  
Likes For wolfchild:
Old 08-21-19, 05:15 PM
  #58  
beach_cycle
Senior Member
 
beach_cycle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 54

Bikes: 2018 Meridian 26" Single Speed Trike; 2019 Monterey 26" Seven Speed Trike

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Weight training is awesome because it increases strength, endurance, and over-all health, plus it produces a natural high that makes me happy! A great balance is weight lifting 3x/week, but not two days in a row. Nutrition is important: protein 30 minutes or less before and after a workout keeps me focused and repairs muscle. And balance carbs, fat and protein throughout the day according to age, sex and height. Biking is an excellent cardio exercise that can be done daily, even on weight lifting days. I prefer heavy biking one day, heavy weight lifting mixed with moderate biking the following day, repeat twice, and then take a day off to rest.
beach_cycle is offline  
Old 08-21-19, 09:25 PM
  #59  
tobey
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Boston suburb
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
As others have said there are many different options and you just have to find what works best for you.
Just riding more miles is not necessarily going to help. After a while they just become junk miles so you need balance in your program.
What I've added in the past year has made more of a difference then anything else I've done over the last 10 years.
Added spin classes, weekly over the winter and then a couple a month during riding season. Definitely helped my hill climbing. During training rides I've eliminated as much as possible using my small front ring.
Makes you work harder but it definitely pays off. My average ride is 54 miles with 2,950 feet in elevation. The biggest single difference for me is when I started using the Glute machine 3 months ago. Not every gym has one but great for building strength and endurance as long as you make sure you doing enough reps to give your legs a good workout. And of course don't forget your core.
tobey is offline  
Old 08-22-19, 12:08 AM
  #60  
McNamara
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 21

Bikes: Orbea Orca and a cheap steel frame road bike of indeterminate origin

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Lifting legs three times per week is a bit too much for me to recover from; tried it a few years back and I couldn't put much quality into my rides. Currently, I'm hitting the big lifts on Sunday and Wednesday and the rest of the week is bike focused with Monday as a total rest day. Sunday: squat, press, deadlift, accessory lifts, and core. Wednesday: squat, bench, power clean, pullups, and core. I also do core work at home a couple of extra days per week. The challenge will be maintaining linear progress on my squat with such a relatively low volume.
McNamara is offline  
Old 08-22-19, 08:28 AM
  #61  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 15,178

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 95 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1901 Post(s)
Liked 78 Times in 65 Posts
Originally Posted by McNamara View Post
Lifting legs three times per week is a bit too much for me to recover from; tried it a few years back and I couldn't put much quality into my rides. Currently, I'm hitting the big lifts on Sunday and Wednesday and the rest of the week is bike focused with Monday as a total rest day. Sunday: squat, press, deadlift, accessory lifts, and core. Wednesday: squat, bench, power clean, pullups, and core. I also do core work at home a couple of extra days per week. The challenge will be maintaining linear progress on my squat with such a relatively low volume.
Twice a week works for me. I periodize my lifting. This is Fall for me - my hard riding is over and I'm taking some time away from the bike, doing other things. I'm lifting twice a week but only "doing legs" once a week. However I find that everything in the gym does legs. My legs are tired after an upper body workout because legs are always in a supporting role with free weights. This is just conditioning for me now, fighting sarcopenia and generally trying not to to be a weak geezer. In January I'll start doing legs twice a week, getting more sport-specific. I find I can make progress at twice a week just fine. hold current 1RM levels at once a week.

I did a whole why-and-how thread on this a few years ago: https://www.bikeforums.net/training-...e-athlete.html
I'm still doing those same workouts - haven't found anything better, although I must say that doing Friel's Training Bible AA workouts from October to May, 3 sets of 30 of 7-9 lifts, to failure, circuit style, gives excellent results. Takes more time though and circuit work means an almost empty gym. I've attached a how-to I created from the Training Bible.

Every gym day, immediately before I lift I either ride for an hour, do 30' on the StepMill, or go for a 2 mile run. My usual schedule has been to lift on Tuesday and Thursday, so Monday recovery ride, Tuesday rollers and lift, Wednesday ride, Thursday rollers and lift, usually Friday and Saturday off, Sunday hard group ride, 40-70 miles. I get most of my intensity on Sunday, 45' to 1 hour in Z4, lots of zone 3, less zone 2, no zone 1 at all - well, maybe 2'. "If I can still walk, I could have gone harder" is the motto.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
STRENGTH_AA.pdf (39.6 KB, 5 views)
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Old 08-22-19, 08:32 AM
  #62  
Flip Flop Rider
Senior Member
 
Flip Flop Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Posts: 1,128

Bikes: 2010 Fuji Absolute 3.0 1994 Trek 850

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 423 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 42 Times in 27 Posts
have not read any studies or posts so apologies if this has been said.

You must experiment with what works for you (just like the "what's the best thing to eat topic". Everyone is different

Different lifts, sets, reps, etc.

Me personally, I would concentrate on upper body lifts. If you ride enough your legs should be good to go
Flip Flop Rider is offline  
Old 08-22-19, 09:40 AM
  #63  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 15,178

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 95 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1901 Post(s)
Liked 78 Times in 65 Posts
Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider View Post
have not read any studies or posts so apologies if this has been said.

You must experiment with what works for you (just like the "what's the best thing to eat topic". Everyone is different

Different lifts, sets, reps, etc.

Me personally, I would concentrate on upper body lifts. If you ride enough your legs should be good to go
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/8bd...a7e789cf78.pdf
http://sportsandscience.de/wp-conten...-und-Kraft.pdf
__________________
Results matter

Last edited by Carbonfiberboy; 08-22-19 at 09:46 AM.
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Likes For Carbonfiberboy:
Old 08-22-19, 10:01 PM
  #64  
McNamara
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 21

Bikes: Orbea Orca and a cheap steel frame road bike of indeterminate origin

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider View Post
have not read any studies or posts so apologies if this has been said.

You must experiment with what works for you (just like the "what's the best thing to eat topic". Everyone is different

Different lifts, sets, reps, etc.

Me personally, I would concentrate on upper body lifts. If you ride enough your legs should be good to go
Yes, everyone has different needs. Currently I can bench more than I can squat. That's totally backwards. Hence, I train my legs much harder in the gym than my upper body. Riding alone won't cut it for me, unless I wanted to keep being a piss poor sprinter.
McNamara is offline  
Old 08-23-19, 11:55 PM
  #65  
OBoile
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,357
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 783 Post(s)
Liked 95 Times in 53 Posts
Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
I think the point was there is value in specificity of training.
Of course specificity is needed. My point was, this specificity doesn't have to be achieved in the weight room.
OBoile is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.