New Bike Fitting Prep?
12-09-20, 08:50 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
New Bike Fitting Prep?
I bought a used bike about a year and a half ago and I've gotten into the hobby enough that I'd like to buy a new one. I figure I'll keep the old one attached to the trainer all year and the new one will be my outdoor bike when weather permits.
I'd like to aim for a new bike in the spring, but until then I am looking to figure out what I can do in order to really get a good fitting bike. I do plan to get a professional fit. Hardest part I think will be finding a good one. A lot of shops around here do fits, but they either try to then push you into buying whatever bike they have available to them or at one, they want to them build you a fully custom bike ($$$). Most seem to use a lot of new technology and cameras, but it doesn't sound like they have people with the "feel" of fitting to use those new technologies as one tool as opposed to the end-all answer. I haven't found any independents.
That aside, what would people recommend in the interim to get the most out of it? I know I have some physical areas I need to work out. Very tight hamstrings, so I am regularly stretching those. Very poor thoracic mobility. I am working on that (exercises and foam rolling), but I know that I will likely never be as aggressive as some people. I have a torn meniscus in one knee, which I don't intend to get surgery on at this point, but I am working on things to help with knee tracking (LTB rolling and VMO strengthening). These are some of the reasons I plan to get a professional fit, to make sure the bike fits me well, but I want to work on some of that before the fit.
Beyond that, what might people suggest in preparation for one to get the most out of it?
I do plan to do some crude fitting on my current bike (I have done some, want to get a little more meticulous about it) as hopes of using that to give information to a future fitter. The bike I bought was a 2011 Specialized Sectuer Comp Compact. (This isn't the 2011, but the geometry is the same - 58 cm - https://www.specialized.com/us/en/se...Text=9025-4749) I know from riding that I have a lot of seat post showing but I feel too stretched out and end up with shoulder discomfort after 1.5-2 hours. The seat is pushed all the way back on the rails and may not be far enough back (I have very long legs compared to my torso... 6'3 but a 37.25 inch cycling inseam). I tried moving the seat forward to shorten the reach and ended up with knee pain (front). I am borrowing a 100 mm stem from a friend to see if that feels more comfortable on the trainer, but I am suspecting that a new bike will want to have a short reach but as much stack as possible. Can obviously shorten "reach" with a shorter stem or handlebars, but that also changes the handling, so I would imagine it makes sense to find one that is close as designed. The seat angle on my current is slacker than most of what I see in new bikes, which means I'll likely need a large setback post.
What can I do with my current bike, at small cost, to help me figure out other areas that make sense to pay attention to during the fitting process?
I'd like to aim for a new bike in the spring, but until then I am looking to figure out what I can do in order to really get a good fitting bike. I do plan to get a professional fit. Hardest part I think will be finding a good one. A lot of shops around here do fits, but they either try to then push you into buying whatever bike they have available to them or at one, they want to them build you a fully custom bike ($$$). Most seem to use a lot of new technology and cameras, but it doesn't sound like they have people with the "feel" of fitting to use those new technologies as one tool as opposed to the end-all answer. I haven't found any independents.
That aside, what would people recommend in the interim to get the most out of it? I know I have some physical areas I need to work out. Very tight hamstrings, so I am regularly stretching those. Very poor thoracic mobility. I am working on that (exercises and foam rolling), but I know that I will likely never be as aggressive as some people. I have a torn meniscus in one knee, which I don't intend to get surgery on at this point, but I am working on things to help with knee tracking (LTB rolling and VMO strengthening). These are some of the reasons I plan to get a professional fit, to make sure the bike fits me well, but I want to work on some of that before the fit.
Beyond that, what might people suggest in preparation for one to get the most out of it?
I do plan to do some crude fitting on my current bike (I have done some, want to get a little more meticulous about it) as hopes of using that to give information to a future fitter. The bike I bought was a 2011 Specialized Sectuer Comp Compact. (This isn't the 2011, but the geometry is the same - 58 cm - https://www.specialized.com/us/en/se...Text=9025-4749) I know from riding that I have a lot of seat post showing but I feel too stretched out and end up with shoulder discomfort after 1.5-2 hours. The seat is pushed all the way back on the rails and may not be far enough back (I have very long legs compared to my torso... 6'3 but a 37.25 inch cycling inseam). I tried moving the seat forward to shorten the reach and ended up with knee pain (front). I am borrowing a 100 mm stem from a friend to see if that feels more comfortable on the trainer, but I am suspecting that a new bike will want to have a short reach but as much stack as possible. Can obviously shorten "reach" with a shorter stem or handlebars, but that also changes the handling, so I would imagine it makes sense to find one that is close as designed. The seat angle on my current is slacker than most of what I see in new bikes, which means I'll likely need a large setback post.
What can I do with my current bike, at small cost, to help me figure out other areas that make sense to pay attention to during the fitting process?
12-09-20, 09:08 AM
#2
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My recommendation is to do more research on bike fit so you have a better appreciation on what to expect and an understanding of adjustment dynamics at a wholistic level.
For example you never move a saddle to fix a reach issue.
For example you never move a saddle to fix a reach issue.
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12-09-20, 09:15 AM
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Yes, I understand that. It was an attempt to see if the shorter reach would reduce the shoulder discomfort, with the end approach being changing the stem, not the seat location. I understand that the correct approach is saddle height and fore-aft, to get legs dialed in and then stem/handlebars to get reach, etc., dialed in.
You seem very knowledge about the process, though. Any particular links/resources you'd recommend?
You seem very knowledge about the process, though. Any particular links/resources you'd recommend?
12-09-20, 10:05 AM
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There really isn't any one standard or measure for what a fitter is. Anyone can claim to be a fitter. So if you want to get a professional fit, do your research and find out what fit methods are out there. Probably a lot of self-proclaimed fitters are worth what they charge. But some aren't much better than the basic new bike fit the bike shops give you by setting the saddle height. There are also a lot of methodologies used too. Some do some detailed motion studies of you on a bike. Some do detailed body measurements. Some just look at you on your bike..... which isn't bad IMO. There are some people that have the intuitive knowledge and understanding that come together almost as an art for them.
https://www.bicycling.com/skills-tip...52/bike-fit-0/
If you are going to buy the bike before getting the fit, then you pretty much pigeon hole the fitter to dealing with a frame size that might not be what they feel ideal for them to fit you to. So consult with one prior to the purchase and find out if they want you to buy first or get measured first.
Some fitters aren't tied to a bike shop. But those probably will be the more expensive because they've developed a good reputation and since they rely on fitting for their income source they charge what the market can bear.
I don't consider a fit a one and done thing. You may want more comfort out of a fit now, but later you might want more power for short sprints or something. So ask about what they'll do as an on-going thing. Or what happens if you don't get used to what they did for you.
https://www.bicycling.com/skills-tip...52/bike-fit-0/
If you are going to buy the bike before getting the fit, then you pretty much pigeon hole the fitter to dealing with a frame size that might not be what they feel ideal for them to fit you to. So consult with one prior to the purchase and find out if they want you to buy first or get measured first.
Some fitters aren't tied to a bike shop. But those probably will be the more expensive because they've developed a good reputation and since they rely on fitting for their income source they charge what the market can bear.
I don't consider a fit a one and done thing. You may want more comfort out of a fit now, but later you might want more power for short sprints or something. So ask about what they'll do as an on-going thing. Or what happens if you don't get used to what they did for you.
12-09-20, 10:29 AM
#5
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the unfortunate thin about fitting is that, once you're in a session with the fitter, it's hard to back out. I've had two professional fittings, both at bike shops with a good reputation.
the first one was old school and didn't use cameras or anything like that. he took my rowdy hardtail and put a slammed 100mm stem on it, then slid my cleats all the way forward under my toes so that he could force my knees into a KOPS position. I paid my $100 for that fitting feeling good about it because of his confidence, rode the bike one like that and I was in so much pain that I had to stop mid-ride to put my cleats back in a rational place. I kept his advice to lower my handlebar but the long stem put me in a bent-over aero road bike position that made no sense at all. in the end, it was a total waste of my money. I should have just walked out without paying the second he pulled out the plumb bob to force my knees into KOPS instead of adjusting the eccentric bottom bracket on that bike or move the saddle forward.
the second fitting used a very advanced video motion capture system. Guru maybe? because he knew what he was doing and had tools to get some precision, the fit came out much better. I did that over three years ago and I still use that fitting as a starting point.
Look up "Bike Fit Advisor" on YouTube. that guy seems to know what's up.
the first one was old school and didn't use cameras or anything like that. he took my rowdy hardtail and put a slammed 100mm stem on it, then slid my cleats all the way forward under my toes so that he could force my knees into a KOPS position. I paid my $100 for that fitting feeling good about it because of his confidence, rode the bike one like that and I was in so much pain that I had to stop mid-ride to put my cleats back in a rational place. I kept his advice to lower my handlebar but the long stem put me in a bent-over aero road bike position that made no sense at all. in the end, it was a total waste of my money. I should have just walked out without paying the second he pulled out the plumb bob to force my knees into KOPS instead of adjusting the eccentric bottom bracket on that bike or move the saddle forward.
the second fitting used a very advanced video motion capture system. Guru maybe? because he knew what he was doing and had tools to get some precision, the fit came out much better. I did that over three years ago and I still use that fitting as a starting point.
Look up "Bike Fit Advisor" on YouTube. that guy seems to know what's up.
12-09-20, 11:13 AM
#6
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Firstly, one doesn't adjust reach with the saddle. Go through my bike fitting primer with your current bike. After doing all that, checking it on the road, probably redoing it a couple times, you'll have a good understanding of what to look for in your new bike, just as you say:
https://www.bikeforums.net/21296948-post3.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/21296948-post3.html
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12-09-20, 11:42 AM
#7
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Thread Starter
If you are going to buy the bike before getting the fit, then you pretty much pigeon hole the fitter to dealing with a frame size that might not be what they feel ideal for them to fit you to. So consult with one prior to the purchase and find out if they want you to buy first or get measured first.
...
I don't consider a fit a one and done thing. You may want more comfort out of a fit now, but later you might want more power for short sprints or something. So ask about what they'll do as an on-going thing. Or what happens if you don't get used to what they did for you.
...
I don't consider a fit a one and done thing. You may want more comfort out of a fit now, but later you might want more power for short sprints or something. So ask about what they'll do as an on-going thing. Or what happens if you don't get used to what they did for you.
To your second point, I agree, which is why I made this thread. To give you an example, as a child I bought a bow. I was tall but weak. They fit me in a youth bow so I could pull it, but I outgrew it in less than a year because they had to fit it at the extreme of how far they could string it. I didn't have any room to grow, literally, with the bow. Looking back, I'd rather have bought an adult bow and worked on strength so that it'd have lasted me longer. I'm looking for the same here. I suspect as time progresses and I get stronger and more flexible that my fit will morph, but I was looking for advice on things (including physical) I could work on now so that I don't end up being fit to a bike that doesn't have room to grow, so to speak.
Firstly, one doesn't adjust reach with the saddle. Go through my bike fitting primer with your current bike. After doing all that, checking it on the road, probably redoing it a couple times, you'll have a good understanding of what to look for in your new bike, just as you say:
https://www.bikeforums.net/21296948-post3.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/21296948-post3.html
12-10-20, 07:08 AM
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There really isn't any one standard or measure for what a fitter is. Anyone can claim to be a fitter. So if you want to get a professional fit, do your research and find out what fit methods are out there. Probably a lot of self-proclaimed fitters are worth what they charge. But some aren't much better than the basic new bike fit the bike shops give you by setting the saddle height. There are also a lot of methodologies used too. Some do some detailed motion studies of you on a bike. Some do detailed body measurements. Some just look at you on your bike..... which isn't bad IMO. There are some people that have the intuitive knowledge and understanding that come together almost as an art for them.
https://www.bicycling.com/skills-tip...52/bike-fit-0/
If you are going to buy the bike before getting the fit, then you pretty much pigeon hole the fitter to dealing with a frame size that might not be what they feel ideal for them to fit you to. So consult with one prior to the purchase and find out if they want you to buy first or get measured first.
Some fitters aren't tied to a bike shop. But those probably will be the more expensive because they've developed a good reputation and since they rely on fitting for their income source they charge what the market can bear.
I don't consider a fit a one and done thing. You may want more comfort out of a fit now, but later you might want more power for short sprints or something. So ask about what they'll do as an on-going thing. Or what happens if you don't get used to what they did for you.
https://www.bicycling.com/skills-tip...52/bike-fit-0/
If you are going to buy the bike before getting the fit, then you pretty much pigeon hole the fitter to dealing with a frame size that might not be what they feel ideal for them to fit you to. So consult with one prior to the purchase and find out if they want you to buy first or get measured first.
Some fitters aren't tied to a bike shop. But those probably will be the more expensive because they've developed a good reputation and since they rely on fitting for their income source they charge what the market can bear.
I don't consider a fit a one and done thing. You may want more comfort out of a fit now, but later you might want more power for short sprints or something. So ask about what they'll do as an on-going thing. Or what happens if you don't get used to what they did for you.
the unfortunate thin about fitting is that, once you're in a session with the fitter, it's hard to back out. I've had two professional fittings, both at bike shops with a good reputation.
the first one was old school and didn't use cameras or anything like that. he took my rowdy hardtail and put a slammed 100mm stem on it, then slid my cleats all the way forward under my toes so that he could force my knees into a KOPS position. I paid my $100 for that fitting feeling good about it because of his confidence, rode the bike one like that and I was in so much pain that I had to stop mid-ride to put my cleats back in a rational place. I kept his advice to lower my handlebar but the long stem put me in a bent-over aero road bike position that made no sense at all. in the end, it was a total waste of my money. I should have just walked out without paying the second he pulled out the plumb bob to force my knees into KOPS instead of adjusting the eccentric bottom bracket on that bike or move the saddle forward.
the second fitting used a very advanced video motion capture system. Guru maybe? because he knew what he was doing and had tools to get some precision, the fit came out much better. I did that over three years ago and I still use that fitting as a starting point.
Look up "Bike Fit Advisor" on YouTube. that guy seems to know what's up.
the first one was old school and didn't use cameras or anything like that. he took my rowdy hardtail and put a slammed 100mm stem on it, then slid my cleats all the way forward under my toes so that he could force my knees into a KOPS position. I paid my $100 for that fitting feeling good about it because of his confidence, rode the bike one like that and I was in so much pain that I had to stop mid-ride to put my cleats back in a rational place. I kept his advice to lower my handlebar but the long stem put me in a bent-over aero road bike position that made no sense at all. in the end, it was a total waste of my money. I should have just walked out without paying the second he pulled out the plumb bob to force my knees into KOPS instead of adjusting the eccentric bottom bracket on that bike or move the saddle forward.
the second fitting used a very advanced video motion capture system. Guru maybe? because he knew what he was doing and had tools to get some precision, the fit came out much better. I did that over three years ago and I still use that fitting as a starting point.
Look up "Bike Fit Advisor" on YouTube. that guy seems to know what's up.
I've found a lot of very good, solid fit advice on "yoo toob" via the "Francis Cade" and "Cam Nichols" channels. Francis Cade has a series called Bike Fit Tuesdays with "Bike Fit James", who is an independent fitter in the UK. Cam Nicholls' channel features some videos with a bike fitter in Autralia named Neill Stanbury who also seems quite good. Until you find a reputable, independent, local fitter these channels provide a great way to begin understanding bike fit. The videos should also help inform some key questions you'll want to ask when contacting local fitters. Good luck!
12-10-20, 07:39 AM
#9
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Are there any websites or similar where you can go to find independent fitters? I live outside Boston, but so far everything I've found is attached to a bike shop. I checked the IBFI website (not sure how good that is) and the only one locally works for a shop that, based on reviews, is more concerned with pushing overpriced parts and custom bikes than anything.
I do plan, regardless of where I go, to make sure that what I get when done is a good set of measurements and dimensions that I can use to help narrow down a good bike for me. And yes, as I mentioned above, I watched a few of Cam's videos with Neill. Unfortunately, AUS is a very, very, very far trip for me to get fit. =P
I do plan, regardless of where I go, to make sure that what I get when done is a good set of measurements and dimensions that I can use to help narrow down a good bike for me. And yes, as I mentioned above, I watched a few of Cam's videos with Neill. Unfortunately, AUS is a very, very, very far trip for me to get fit. =P
12-10-20, 09:45 AM
#10
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I had a Retul fit in Boulder that was excellent. They didn't try to sell me any Specialized stuff.
Glenn
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12-10-20, 09:56 AM
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However if you can travel, you might consider going to one a long way from you.
Generally I like what I've read from this guy... https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/ and there are a couple places in the US that people supposedly trained in his methods will fit you.
Also, I've seen Leonard Zinn write some stuff about fit that I tend to side with. He'll both fit you and build you a bike...
https://zinncycles.com/
https://zinncycles.com/bike-fitting/
There are plenty out there, but as mack_turtle experienced some might not be so great. As I said earlier, the only requirement to be a fitter is to advertise yourself as a fitter. You don't have to know anything about it. And if you find one that favors KOP's above all else, run away!
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12-10-20, 10:05 AM
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Are there any websites or similar where you can go to find independent fitters? I live outside Boston, but so far everything I've found is attached to a bike shop. I checked the IBFI website (not sure how good that is) and the only one locally works for a shop that, based on reviews, is more concerned with pushing overpriced parts and custom bikes than anything.
I do plan, regardless of where I go, to make sure that what I get when done is a good set of measurements and dimensions that I can use to help narrow down a good bike for me. And yes, as I mentioned above, I watched a few of Cam's videos with Neill. Unfortunately, AUS is a very, very, very far trip for me to get fit. =P
I do plan, regardless of where I go, to make sure that what I get when done is a good set of measurements and dimensions that I can use to help narrow down a good bike for me. And yes, as I mentioned above, I watched a few of Cam's videos with Neill. Unfortunately, AUS is a very, very, very far trip for me to get fit. =P
Since Fit Werx 2 is closer, here's their web address: https://fitwerx.com. I'm not endorsing them, just providing some info as an option to check out.
I've only used bikefit.com once to find one fitter, but I ended up hitting the jackpot. Not sure how strong of an indicator my experience is for other folks in other territories. However, it can't hurt to call and ask a few questions to see where it leads.
12-10-20, 01:27 PM
#13
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Thread Starter
Google is both your friend and enemy in this. You can find a lot. But many times the search results will give you people and places that spin a good story but might be no better than taking advice from me or any other random person here.
However if you can travel, you might consider going to one a long way from you.
Generally I like what I've read from this guy... https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/ and there are a couple places in the US that people supposedly trained in his methods will fit you.
Also, I've seen Leonard Zinn write some stuff about fit that I tend to side with. He'll both fit you and build you a bike...
https://zinncycles.com/
https://zinncycles.com/bike-fitting/
There are plenty out there, but as mack_turtle experienced some might not be so great. As I said earlier, the only requirement to be a fitter is to advertise yourself as a fitter. You don't have to know anything about it. And if you find one that favors KOP's above all else, run away!
However if you can travel, you might consider going to one a long way from you.
Generally I like what I've read from this guy... https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/ and there are a couple places in the US that people supposedly trained in his methods will fit you.
Also, I've seen Leonard Zinn write some stuff about fit that I tend to side with. He'll both fit you and build you a bike...
https://zinncycles.com/
https://zinncycles.com/bike-fitting/
There are plenty out there, but as mack_turtle experienced some might not be so great. As I said earlier, the only requirement to be a fitter is to advertise yourself as a fitter. You don't have to know anything about it. And if you find one that favors KOP's above all else, run away!
I found my fitter through bikefit.com. Doing a quick search on their site I get a couple of results near Boston: 1) Fit Werx 2 in Peabody, MA and 2) The Velo Resource in Auburn, NH.
Since Fit Werx 2 is closer, here's their web address: https://fitwerx.com. I'm not endorsing them, just providing some info as an option to check out.
I've only used bikefit.com once to find one fitter, but I ended up hitting the jackpot. Not sure how strong of an indicator my experience is for other folks in other territories. However, it can't hurt to call and ask a few questions to see where it leads.
Since Fit Werx 2 is closer, here's their web address: https://fitwerx.com. I'm not endorsing them, just providing some info as an option to check out.
I've only used bikefit.com once to find one fitter, but I ended up hitting the jackpot. Not sure how strong of an indicator my experience is for other folks in other territories. However, it can't hurt to call and ask a few questions to see where it leads.
