Recommend a classic light touring rando style frame
09-30-16, 03:01 PM
#126
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09-30-16, 03:06 PM
#127
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Update:
I've decided on my audax frame- It was a tough choice- I was oscillating with each one being the leader at some point.
Initially the Holdsworth led, because I loved the look of the chrome lugs, chainstays, and fork stays, as well as the purple and red paint. Plus, it was only $750 shipped. I decided against it because of a couple of reasons, with one being on the silly side: it was made in Italy instead of England. I know, I know!!!- What's wrong with made in Italy you ask??? I want my English branded bike to be made in England, just as I've only bought Italian branded bikes made in Italy. The other reason was that it only had one set of water bottle bosses.
I was really tempted to go with the Mercian even though it was 50% more than the comparable BJ. The main reason was that I read on their site that they pin their frames before welding. Pinning lugs is a technique that very few builders use, with Richard Sachs being the most well known. Antonio Mondonico pinned when he was building- I have one of the last frames he built before retiring, and it is my favorite riding bike. What ultimately caused me cross them off was their poor communication. I asked questions about tubing and paint and never got a response- asked twice about which tubes are used for the stays and fork on a 631 KOM (wanted to confirm if the stays were downgraded to 525 or the whole frame was 631) and 3 times about trying to match their standard paints with cardinal red and zinc yellow gold (Fight On Trojans!! Even though we are in a downward spiral
) I got tired of trying to extract info from them. It almost felt like they didn't need my business. Cool, they won't get it.
BJ has been great with answering questions. They (Donald) were very accommodating with special requests (willing to use oval stays instead of the standard round-oval-round of the audax frames in order to fit 32s with fenders is just one example). Then I found a pic of an absolutely stunning BJ Audax E-E in Amber flamboyant that sealed the deal. Their paintwork is amazing. The only thing I'm still working on is trying to match their standard colors with the USC colors. Anyhow, check out this Amber baby:
I've decided on my audax frame- It was a tough choice- I was oscillating with each one being the leader at some point.
Initially the Holdsworth led, because I loved the look of the chrome lugs, chainstays, and fork stays, as well as the purple and red paint. Plus, it was only $750 shipped. I decided against it because of a couple of reasons, with one being on the silly side: it was made in Italy instead of England. I know, I know!!!- What's wrong with made in Italy you ask??? I want my English branded bike to be made in England, just as I've only bought Italian branded bikes made in Italy. The other reason was that it only had one set of water bottle bosses.
I was really tempted to go with the Mercian even though it was 50% more than the comparable BJ. The main reason was that I read on their site that they pin their frames before welding. Pinning lugs is a technique that very few builders use, with Richard Sachs being the most well known. Antonio Mondonico pinned when he was building- I have one of the last frames he built before retiring, and it is my favorite riding bike. What ultimately caused me cross them off was their poor communication. I asked questions about tubing and paint and never got a response- asked twice about which tubes are used for the stays and fork on a 631 KOM (wanted to confirm if the stays were downgraded to 525 or the whole frame was 631) and 3 times about trying to match their standard paints with cardinal red and zinc yellow gold (Fight On Trojans!! Even though we are in a downward spiral
) I got tired of trying to extract info from them. It almost felt like they didn't need my business. Cool, they won't get it. BJ has been great with answering questions. They (Donald) were very accommodating with special requests (willing to use oval stays instead of the standard round-oval-round of the audax frames in order to fit 32s with fenders is just one example). Then I found a pic of an absolutely stunning BJ Audax E-E in Amber flamboyant that sealed the deal. Their paintwork is amazing. The only thing I'm still working on is trying to match their standard colors with the USC colors. Anyhow, check out this Amber baby:
Pics or it didn't happen!
Very nice, you're going to like that bike. Plug yourself into one of the Portlandia rides that's posted here now and then so we can see it in person.
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
09-30-16, 03:32 PM
#128
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The bike I'll bring to my first Portlandia C&V ride is my Tommasini. It's a beauty if I say so myself. Eventually, I'll change the bar and stem- a chrome VO stem and maybe a nitto bar. I don't like the current set up.
09-30-16, 03:59 PM
#129
Senior Member
I will definitely post pics, and will join in on some rides.
The bike I'll bring to my first Portlandia C&V ride is my Tommasini. It's a beauty if I say so myself. Eventually, I'll change the bar and stem- a chrome VO stem and maybe a nitto bar. I don't like the current set up.
The bike I'll bring to my first Portlandia C&V ride is my Tommasini. It's a beauty if I say so myself. Eventually, I'll change the bar and stem- a chrome VO stem and maybe a nitto bar. I don't like the current set up.
09-30-16, 04:23 PM
#130
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09-30-16, 05:48 PM
#131
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I took some more pics of the Tomma today after my ride. I tried capturing the sparkle of the Tessa red metallic paint.
Having technical issues loading files. Some files won't load, and it seems I can only load one pic at a time. I love this forum but it doesn't have great pic sharing capabilities.
Last edited by Ride-Fly; 09-30-16 at 05:56 PM.
09-30-16, 06:09 PM
#132
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ASU is doing well! The Sun Devils are 4-0 going into the game against USC this weekend, but 10 point underdogs. You bet I'll be watching!
I use Flickr to share photos here, once you get the hang of it its a breeze.
I use Flickr to share photos here, once you get the hang of it its a breeze.
10-01-16, 04:04 AM
#133
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BJ has been great with answering questions. They (Donald) were very accommodating with special requests (willing to use oval stays instead of the standard round-oval-round of the audax frames in order to fit 32s with fenders is just one example). Then I found a pic of an absolutely stunning BJ Audax E-E in Amber flamboyant that sealed the deal. Their paintwork is amazing. The only thing I'm still working on is trying to match their standard colors with the USC colors. Anyhow, check out this Amber baby:
^(Mine will be dark green, with lots of chrome)
It has all the fittings I need, and I switched off to canti brakes. It only allows up to 28 tires, which was not a deal breaker, as I've ridden many a rando ride, all on 28s. Would have liked to have the option to use bigger once in a while, but not worth giving up the fancy Hetchins-y stays.
I can confirm that they have excellent customer service. Donald and Gary went the distance answering my silly questions and helping me get the exact finish and fittings I wanted. Here's hoping we both get a good result in short order. I look forward to seeing pics of the Audax.
Did you go with the amber flamboyant finish? If so, very cool. It was one of my final list of choices, but I could not work out a satisfactory match with bands, lug lining and deals. It's hard to choose when you are going for something custom and unique, and can't see it in person. I've never even seen a single Bob Jackson in person! Leap of faith... Mine is bottle green flamboyant with sparkle silver metallic bands, chrome scattered all over and gold decals and lug lining. Here is something similar; the only bike I could find with a similar scheme:
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Last edited by chewybrian; 10-01-16 at 04:12 AM.
10-01-16, 07:24 PM
#134
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Did you go with the amber flamboyant finish? If so, very cool. It was one of my final list of choices, but I could not work out a satisfactory match with bands, lug lining and deals. It's hard to choose when you are going for something custom and unique, and can't see it in person. I've never even seen a single Bob Jackson in person! Leap of faith... Mine is bottle green flamboyant with sparkle silver metallic bands, chrome scattered all over and gold decals and lug lining. Here is something similar; the only bike I could find with a similar scheme:
I can't wait to see your Vulcan!!! It's going to be baddazz!!!
10-02-16, 02:22 AM
#135
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I love that Amber flamboyant but I'm going with a red and gold color scheme to match my USC Trojans I'm still trying to figure out the exact colors as I want to get as close as possible to cardinal red and zinc yellow gold. I've asked Donald for the RAL codes of some of their red and gold colors to get as close as possible.
I can't wait to see your Vulcan!!! It's going to be baddazz!!!
I can't wait to see your Vulcan!!! It's going to be baddazz!!!
Yes, red and gold is a good combination, with white lug lining it would look sharp. And you can use red or gold decals to match the secondary color. I was looking at that combination, but I got set on having gold lug lining, and then it would not have worked. Color was by far the hardest choice for me. There are many desirable combinations.
What about components? How do you want to build it? Retro, modern, faux retro? I would call mine faux retro. It's 2x10 with bar end shifters. The components are all new, but they look old.
I just noticed the epic collection of bikes you have already; very cool.
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10-02-16, 04:10 AM
#136
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My recommendation is to up your budget. If you want a new rando/audax style bike not made in Asia, $1k is too low unless that is your budget for the frame. A gunnar sport with fork runs north of $1k.
If you like older bikes, then $1k will get you a heck of a bike. Here's a thread on classic sports touring bikes:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...g-bicycle.html
If you like older bikes, then $1k will get you a heck of a bike. Here's a thread on classic sports touring bikes:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...g-bicycle.html
10-02-16, 06:26 AM
#137
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Sizing is still a personal choice, but if you mean by "rando" a bike that you can ride all day long, 2-300km at a clip, bending over in a classic, aerodynamic position may not be conductive to a healthy back. Additionally, the rando scene is really pushing towards an "all-rounder" bike (Jan Heine's declaration), which means being able to handle unpaved roads. Sitting up a bit more, handlebar and seat height difference minimal, the tendency is to ride a slightly taller frame for the longer head tube.
YMMV.
YMMV.
But I don't think there are any formulas that are reliable for everyone. Jan may be identifying a trend, but perhaps it's just a PNW trend. I don't think it dictates what I should do or what will work for me.
10-02-16, 06:55 AM
#138
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Sizing is still a personal choice, but if you mean by "rando" a bike that you can ride all day long, 2-300km at a clip, bending over in a classic, aerodynamic position may not be conductive to a healthy back. Additionally, the rando scene is really pushing towards an "all-rounder" bike (Jan Heine's declaration), which means being able to handle unpaved roads. Sitting up a bit more, handlebar and seat height difference minimal, the tendency is to ride a slightly taller frame for the longer head tube.
YMMV.
YMMV.
I think the bottom line here is that for long and very long rides (whatever the road and whatever they are called), you have to find a sizing (what size frame?) and fitting (where do all my contact points need to be?) that is comfortable for the long-term conditions of such a ride. This could be different from a performance fit, or one where you don't need such long-term comfort.
But I don't think there are any formulas that are reliable for everyone. Jan may be identifying a trend, but perhaps it's just a PNW trend. I don't think it dictates what I should do or what will work for me.
But I don't think there are any formulas that are reliable for everyone. Jan may be identifying a trend, but perhaps it's just a PNW trend. I don't think it dictates what I should do or what will work for me.
Still I agree that the trend to smaller wheels is not the end all and be all for rando bikes. One of my favorite bikes--and I think Road Fan has one as well--is a 1984 Trek 610. It's a classic sports touring bike with long reach brakes, eyelets, and a little longer wheelbase than a racing bike. It can't handle all the road surfaces that the XO-2 (or a 650b bike) can but it is a superb road bike. It's not the fanciest bike I own but it is the one I rode consistently this year because it is so comfortable.
10-02-16, 11:07 AM
#139
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Plus, with used ones, check the tubing specs and look up (or discuss with Scooper) the actual frame tubing specifications.
Woodrups seem to have been made with any and all tubing brands and models, probably based on customer requirements.
But I have a 1980 531 Woodrup that is a superb distance bike, at least for my back to back metric centuries and related training. Now that I have it again I need to start building it back up and see if I still think that.
The Kevin Sayles build was quite wonderful however!
10-02-16, 03:13 PM
#141
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10-02-16, 04:59 PM
#143
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Update:
I've decided on my audax frame- It was a tough choice- I was oscillating with each one being the leader at some point.
Initially the Holdsworth led, because I loved the look of the chrome lugs, chainstays, and fork stays, as well as the purple and red paint. Plus, it was only $750 shipped. I decided against it because of a couple of reasons, with one being on the silly side: it was made in Italy instead of England. I know, I know!!!- What's wrong with made in Italy you ask??? I want my English branded bike to be made in England, just as I've only bought Italian branded bikes made in Italy. The other reason was that it only had one set of water bottle bosses.
I was really tempted to go with the Mercian even though it was 50% more than the comparable BJ. The main reason was that I read on their site that they pin their frames before welding. Pinning lugs is a technique that very few builders use, with Richard Sachs being the most well known. Antonio Mondonico pinned when he was building- I have one of the last frames he built before retiring, and it is my favorite riding bike. What ultimately caused me cross them off was their poor communication. I asked questions about tubing and paint and never got a response- asked twice about which tubes are used for the stays and fork on a 631 KOM (wanted to confirm if the stays were downgraded to 525 or the whole frame was 631) and 3 times about trying to match their standard paints with cardinal red and zinc yellow gold (Fight On Trojans!! Even though we are in a downward spiral ) I got tired of trying to extract info from them. It almost felt like they didn't need my business. Cool, they won't get it.
BJ has been great with answering questions. They (Donald) were very accommodating with special requests (willing to use oval stays instead of the standard round-oval-round of the audax frames in order to fit 32s with fenders is just one example). Then I found a pic of an absolutely stunning BJ Audax E-E in Amber flamboyant that sealed the deal. Their paintwork is amazing. The only thing I'm still working on is trying to match their standard colors with the USC colors. Anyhow, check out this Amber baby:
I've decided on my audax frame- It was a tough choice- I was oscillating with each one being the leader at some point.
Initially the Holdsworth led, because I loved the look of the chrome lugs, chainstays, and fork stays, as well as the purple and red paint. Plus, it was only $750 shipped. I decided against it because of a couple of reasons, with one being on the silly side: it was made in Italy instead of England. I know, I know!!!- What's wrong with made in Italy you ask??? I want my English branded bike to be made in England, just as I've only bought Italian branded bikes made in Italy. The other reason was that it only had one set of water bottle bosses.
I was really tempted to go with the Mercian even though it was 50% more than the comparable BJ. The main reason was that I read on their site that they pin their frames before welding. Pinning lugs is a technique that very few builders use, with Richard Sachs being the most well known. Antonio Mondonico pinned when he was building- I have one of the last frames he built before retiring, and it is my favorite riding bike. What ultimately caused me cross them off was their poor communication. I asked questions about tubing and paint and never got a response- asked twice about which tubes are used for the stays and fork on a 631 KOM (wanted to confirm if the stays were downgraded to 525 or the whole frame was 631) and 3 times about trying to match their standard paints with cardinal red and zinc yellow gold (Fight On Trojans!! Even though we are in a downward spiral
) I got tired of trying to extract info from them. It almost felt like they didn't need my business. Cool, they won't get it. BJ has been great with answering questions. They (Donald) were very accommodating with special requests (willing to use oval stays instead of the standard round-oval-round of the audax frames in order to fit 32s with fenders is just one example). Then I found a pic of an absolutely stunning BJ Audax E-E in Amber flamboyant that sealed the deal. Their paintwork is amazing. The only thing I'm still working on is trying to match their standard colors with the USC colors. Anyhow, check out this Amber baby:
I think that Bob Jackson will be perfect for you. And I'm looking forward to seeing it. Let us know when it's on its way. For me, Mercian worked out well. The price was only slightly more than BJ with the options I wanted. I didn't have any communication problems but I'm not super talkative. Grant was very nice on the phone.
10-02-16, 05:06 PM
#144
Senior Member
I ordered a frame from BJ myself and it is very close to delivery (paint shop now). I plan to use mine for centuries and club rides; a lighter, faster, fancy-pants rando bike. I went with the "Vulcan", because I always wanted one, even if it may not be the 'perfect' rando bike.
^(Mine will be dark green, with lots of chrome)
It has all the fittings I need, and I switched off to canti brakes. It only allows up to 28 tires, which was not a deal breaker, as I've ridden many a rando ride, all on 28s. Would have liked to have the option to use bigger once in a while, but not worth giving up the fancy Hetchins-y stays.
^(Mine will be dark green, with lots of chrome)
It has all the fittings I need, and I switched off to canti brakes. It only allows up to 28 tires, which was not a deal breaker, as I've ridden many a rando ride, all on 28s. Would have liked to have the option to use bigger once in a while, but not worth giving up the fancy Hetchins-y stays.
You didn't hold back did you! I was fortunate enough to work on a lot of old Hetchins bikes during my LBS days, and they always amazed me. If I wasn't a big galoot, I would have gotten a fancy lugs bike too (BJ Vulcan or Mercian Vincitore), but I wanted an OS tubeset.
10-02-16, 05:11 PM
#145
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Congrats on you decision ride-fly. I think that Bob Jackson will be perfect for you. And I'm looking forward to seeing it. Let us know when it's on its way.
For me, Mercian worked out well. The price was only slightly more than BJ with the options I wanted. I didn't have any communication problems but I'm not super talkative. Grant was very nice on the phone.
I think that Bob Jackson will be perfect for you. And I'm looking forward to seeing it. Let us know when it's on its way. For me, Mercian worked out well. The price was only slightly more than BJ with the options I wanted. I didn't have any communication problems but I'm not super talkative. Grant was very nice on the phone.
10-02-16, 05:19 PM
#146
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Also just aquired an old Holdsworth touring frame that I think was custom built after looking at Cinelli's and Colnago's and missing some deals on those ended up with this at a pretty good deal, but it is way down the queue so it will be a while, good thing I have a couple of Merz's. 
10-02-16, 06:21 PM
#147
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Wow chewy, that's going to be some bike. You didn't hold back did you! I was fortunate enough to work on a lot of old Hetchins bikes during my LBS days, and they always amazed me. If I wasn't a big galoot, I would have gotten a fancy lugs bike too (BJ Vulcan or Mercian Vincitore), but I wanted an OS tubeset.
You didn't hold back did you! I was fortunate enough to work on a lot of old Hetchins bikes during my LBS days, and they always amazed me. If I wasn't a big galoot, I would have gotten a fancy lugs bike too (BJ Vulcan or Mercian Vincitore), but I wanted an OS tubeset.I commuted by bicycle for many years and saved all the money I could have spent on a car. So, I feel no guilt cutting loose on this.
p.s. Did the Mercian arrive or are you still waiting?
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10-02-16, 06:55 PM
#148
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I hope it turns out to be a bit special. I don't know that buying one shows that I'm not a big galoot, though. It's just one of those things where you say to yourself: "someday...". Then one day you decide you're not gettin' any younger, so...
I commuted by bicycle for many years and saved all the money I could have spent on a car. So, I feel no guilt cutting loose on this.
p.s. Did the Mercian arrive or are you still waiting?
I commuted by bicycle for many years and saved all the money I could have spent on a car. So, I feel no guilt cutting loose on this.
p.s. Did the Mercian arrive or are you still waiting?
10-02-16, 07:23 PM
#149
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Heh Ride Fly, check this one out.
Lots to like.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/garyca...th/5263975250/
Lots to like.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/garyca...th/5263975250/
10-02-16, 07:40 PM
#150
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Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
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3,674 Posts
Heh Ride Fly, check this one out.
Lots to like.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/garyca...th/5263975250/
Lots to like.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/garyca...th/5263975250/
Tx!
