Philphine

bear with the explanation please.

I picked up a 29er beach cruiser as a current project. I'm changing it from a single speed to a multi. and found a rear wheel that uses a cassette. I really don't know much of anything about them as all my other bikes are old things that use a spin on cluster.

the seller stated that the hub was for a 8-9 speed cassette, but I really just want 5 gears. just hunting around on ebay all I see is one that's kinda costly, plus I'm not even sure if it'll work (5 speed uni-glide?).

the reason I just want five is I want to use an old muscle bike shifter that is a click shift. someone at the co-op said I could just use the 8-9 speed cassette, and just set the derailleur stops to just use a range of 5 gears (grouped together on the cluster i mean), but I'm thinking the gears would be spaced to close together and not match the shifter throws. I'm also thinking maybe I could take the shifter apart and see if I can make it work like a friction shifter with the 8-9 speed cassette if I have to. I have a 5 speed friction shifter on a 7 speed with shifter throw to spare (another reason i'n thinking the extra gears are closer together).

I guess if all else fails i'll just look for another shifter to work the 8-9 speed cassette, but I'm hoping there are options I don't know about (truthfully, I'm wishing I had stayed old school and used a spin on). thanks.

fietsbob

the era of 5 speeds preceded the cassette hub .. they were screw on freewheels ..

think about a S-A 5 speed IGH wheel build . they have 3 different shifter types ..

what 5 do you need ? state it in gear ratios..

Cross Creek

Unless there's a way to turn that shifter into a friction shifter (which I kind of doubt), it's not going to work with a derailleur and cassette, and likely wouldn't work very well if it could be put in to friction mode. fietsbob has the right idea, build a wheel around the Sturmey Archer hub made to go with that shifter. Or, keep your wheel and choose another shifter made to work with that hub.

Philphine

i don't know about ratios. the spin ons i have that i like best are something like 13-14 to 32-34 5 speed clusters. i guess they were from touring type bikes.

i looked at the sa hub a few times, but i don't much about them either, plus i have this wheel now.

the shifter is a derailleur shifter (sear's screamer), but being a click shift, the throws i'm guessing would need to match the spacing of a meant to be 5 speed cluster.

i guess if there are no options (the uni glide won't work?), i'll start looking at trying another shifter or modding the one i have.

fietsbob

Ratio = Math .. numbers of teeth on the hub cog and the number of teeth on the chainring ..
chainring turns the hub X number of times, in proportion to their relative size.

an IGH the gears are a percentage / fraction of the direct drive gear... 1:1 is when the hub shell turns at the same rate as the cog.

you choose the 1 cog and the 1 chainring to determine the size of the 1:1 gear.

Philphine

i mean i more or less understand that, but it's not an issue here. if i don't get the exact range i want (like the uni-glide only goes up to 28), i haven't settled on a front sprocket yet. i'm just trying to get the rear set up to work for me.

demoncyclist

I don't think they made indexed 5 speed derailleurs, so you may be mistaken about the shifter- unless it is just ratchet clicks, and not 4 specific clicks between gears. If it is the latter, it would have to be for an S-A IGH hub.

When I was a kid, I had a Ross Apollo 5 speed with a stick shift- it was not indexed- it was a ratcheting shifter. I can't remember if it was a Shimano or SunTour RD. Grey hair eats memories...

Little Darwin

There were a few failed attempts at 5 speed indexed shifting, usually on very low end bikes. One phenomenal flop was the Shimano Positron system.

I have seen 6 speed indexed shifters once in a while, used with 6 speed freewheels... but those are pretty old technology, and most 5 and 6 speeds don't have the shaped teeth that really help in indexed shifting.

demoncyclist

The Screamer was made from 68 to 72, and my Apollo was purchased for my 10th birthday in 75. I think the Positron was a little later than that- early 80s, IIRC...

Philphine

I may not be giving how it works the right name, but it clicks to 5 positions (4 clicks between them), and it is for a derailleur shifter.

Metacortex

Positron debuted in 1975: 08shimano | Shimano Catalogue 1975 | Retrobike

hueyhoolihan

individual Shimano hyperglide cogs are available and assuming the hub is a hyperglide or uniglide hub and if you can find spacers of the proper width, you can build yourself a workable cassette for an indexed shifter. a friction shifter is simpler.

Philphine

i feel like y'all have gone off on some tangent. it's a five speed derailleur shifter.

can i get a 5 speed cassette? does anyone know if the 5 speed uni-glide i'm seeing would work? thanks.

Philphine

ok, thanks. i guess that's the option i need to look into before giving up on the shifter.

Andrew R Stewart 

Well this flop lasted over 10 years on the market place. I still see positron equipped bikes in for service, so add another 25+ years for some in actual use.

Back to the OP- Sears (and others) did some odd "concept" designs with their kids bikes in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The clicking shifters were non indexed, the clicks were audio only, in some I've seen. Others did have a complex set of linkages under the "console" for doing more then just moving one cable.

Also there were 5 speed cassettes by Shimano. Not SIS, HG but twist tooth. Not real common even back then. Likely impossible to find these days.

To make a 5 speed I'd get a 7 speed cassette and play with the spacers and end up using only 5 of the cogs. Then control with a friction lever of whatever style one likes. Andy.

Al1943

Are you sure the shifter is a 5-speed. A 6-speed indexed shifter clicks 5 times. The first position of any indexed shifter is simply all of the cable out. The first click will shift the chain to the second position.

Philphine

it's a 5 speed.

4 clicks bettween each position

numbers on shifter read 12345

it's a 5 speed

Jeff Wills

Please post a photo of the shifter. As others have said, 5-speed index shifters are pretty rare. It could be for a Sturmey-Archer internal hub, which would make it very, very rare.

Bike Gremlin

I ride an old MTB with indexed cheap Shimano shifters - it can be set to work friction or indexed. Works in indexed mode flawless. Grit, snow - nothing stops it. Really happy.

Philphine

good lord

Sears Screamer Muscle Bike Drag or Park Brake and Shifter w Console Cables More | eBay

one from ebay. i have two of these and another style that all click shift. they are NOT internal hub shifters, and i've never heard of them being considered as index shifting. i may experiment with one on a 5 speed internal hub wheel i have, but that wasn't their original use. the shift throws are liable not to match. actually when i was looking for this pic, i saw a friction shifter that may work for me and brought it.

can we forget about the shifter now?

Jeff Wills

OK... back to the original question. The derailleur and shifter you pointed at on Ebay are from the mid-late '70's, before Shimano started making cassettes. All they had then was standard threaded-on freewheels.

Shimano did make 5-speed cassettes in the early '80's, but I've never seen one in person. 6-speed cassettes were also available at the same cost- why wouldn't you get another cog?

ThermionicScott 

I think we can. It sounds like your shifter isn't indexed at all (has multiple clicks for each position), so you could stick any freewheel you wanted back there. If you didn't mind that the numbers don't always line up with a particular gear, you could get a wheel with a 6- or 7-speed freewheel (much easier to come by and in decent quality) and enjoy a few more ratios in between the ones you use.

Philphine

*takes sedative*

it's 5 speed shifter.

if you move it across it's entire range, it clicks four times.

the clicks aren't just to hear. it's detented to hold the shifter in that position

5 positions

because it's a 5 speed shifter

5



5!!111!!!!1

​*goes to lay down*

fietsbob

you got a time machine ? 5 speed stuff is a long time ago.. 2 generations born since .. nothing in your dreams will be easy.


Bluntly said... re adjust your ideas to conform with reality. might be time to stop complaining . it aint gonna happen as you wish.


you are needing a Machine Shop not a bike forum.

Jeff Wills

OK, so how well does it work with a 5-speed freewheel?