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The Water Cooler, Scuttlebutt, Chit Chat Thread

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The Water Cooler, Scuttlebutt, Chit Chat Thread

Old 01-04-20, 08:55 PM
  #4326  
Doge
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Originally Posted by TMonk
...
Would be super interesting to pay for some wind tunnel time at some point, just to try things out and get some data. A grand (or so I'm told) is a bit of coin to drop, but it's not like I haven't spent that much on cycling before.
Might do as well on some track rental time - say LA. It costs less, and you are actually riding a bike.
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Old 01-04-20, 09:52 PM
  #4327  
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Originally Posted by TMonk
Would be super interesting to pay for some wind tunnel time at some point, just to try things out and get some data. A grand (or so I'm told) is a bit of coin to drop, but it's not like I haven't spent that much on cycling before.
Can you do a Chung method test? I'm perusing Google maps for a suitable bit of road, and waiting for warmer weather. But I'll be doing some tests on myself.

https://anonymous.coward.free.fr/watt...direct-cda.pdf

The test methodology, when done properly, seems quite accurate: Blather 'bout Bikes: Aero Field Testing using the "Chung Method" - How sensitive can it be?
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Old 01-04-20, 11:23 PM
  #4328  
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Originally Posted by TMonk
Sometimes I think that I might have a good CdA in my standard road, track and TT positions. Like, some of these guys are monstrously strong from a raw wattage perspective, but I can compete with them in flat/high-speed mass start races and roll a break (or TTT) with some pretty tough guys at high speed.

To put that in perspective I'm only 145 lbs (at race weight) and decently strong, but some of these bigger guys have like 50+ watts on me z1-5. At ~12 years of competitive cycling, you'd think I'd have this figured out by now .

Would be super interesting to pay for some wind tunnel time at some point, just to try things out and get some data. A grand (or so I'm told) is a bit of coin to drop, but it's not like I haven't spent that much on cycling before.
You can do the San Diego wind tunnel, Velo Sports Center ERO aero testing or you and I can go to the SD velodrome and use my aero calculation spread sheet. All we need is accurate speed and power data over a couple of good laps per test and we can calculate CdA for the setup tested. ERO is slicker, more accurate and continuous and you learn a lot and of course the wind tunnel can do yaw angle, smoke and other cool stuff.
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Old 01-05-20, 09:46 AM
  #4329  
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing
Can you do a Chung method test? I'm perusing Google maps for a suitable bit of road, and waiting for warmer weather. But I'll be doing some tests on myself.

https://anonymous.coward.free.fr/watt...direct-cda.pdf

The test methodology, when done properly, seems quite accurate: Blather 'bout Bikes: Aero Field Testing using the "Chung Method" - How sensitive can it be?
Have a teammate that swears by the Chung method, and he is in fact absurdly aero.
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Old 01-05-20, 10:06 AM
  #4330  
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Originally Posted by Hermes
You can do the San Diego wind tunnel, Velo Sports Center ERO aero testing or you and I can go to the SD velodrome and use my aero calculation spread sheet. All we need is accurate speed and power data over a couple of good laps per test and we can calculate CdA for the setup tested. ERO is slicker, more accurate and continuous and you learn a lot and of course the wind tunnel can do yaw angle, smoke and other cool stuff.
+1 to this

i'd love to be able to waltz down to a velodrome located 2 hours away, pay $600, and have my zero-yaw CdA determined

given that a good bike fit cost ~$300 these days, $600 doesn't seem all that ridiculous
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Old 01-05-20, 10:15 AM
  #4331  
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Originally Posted by echappist
+1 to this

i'd love to be able to waltz down to a velodrome located 2 hours away, pay $600, and have my zero-yaw CdA determined

given that a good bike fit cost ~$300 these days, $600 doesn't seem all that ridiculous
ERO offers a lot of value. You start with a detailed Retuil fit in the studio and then get on the track to refine the studio fit and test equipment. The only problem with ERO is that they have very limited equipment availability. So the customer has to bring whatever he/she wants to test. So ERO may have a helmet or two and a couple of stems. When I did my testing, a couple of racing friends provided some equipment that I could try and I brought my own skin suits.

The other aspect of using ERO is that they have a huge data base of tests from international and pro teams. So they have a pretty good idea of what works and is fast. It is a matter of confirming it on individual riders.
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Old 01-08-20, 10:27 AM
  #4332  
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I have to enter a time card every week at work. It's kind of stupid, because I just put down 8 hours every day, but processes.

Anyway, if my manager does not approve my time card, the system emails Me about it. Not my manager. So, I then have to forward the email to him to ask him to approve the time card.
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Old 01-08-20, 10:51 AM
  #4333  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro
I have to enter a time card every week at work. It's kind of stupid, because I just put down 8 hours every day, but processes.

Anyway, if my manager does not approve my time card, the system emails Me about it. Not my manager. So, I then have to forward the email to him to ask him to approve the time card.
I also have to do the time card thing. I have to list which projects I've been working on daily (up to 15 per day), even if it's a job we don't yet have a contract for or we've already invoiced (dead for accounting purposes). I usually just BS it. Accounting and everyone else knows I BS it and they are totally ok with it...but yet I still have to do it. A yearly salary would be a nice way to get rid of the paperwork, but I'd end up getting a pay cut in the long run.
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Old 01-10-20, 12:22 AM
  #4334  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro
I have to enter a time card every week at work. It's kind of stupid, because I just put down 8 hours every day, but processes.

Anyway, if my manager does not approve my time card, the system emails Me about it. Not my manager. So, I then have to forward the email to him to ask him to approve the time card.
Originally Posted by Cypress
I also have to do the time card thing. I have to list which projects I've been working on daily (up to 15 per day), even if it's a job we don't yet have a contract for or we've already invoiced (dead for accounting purposes). I usually just BS it. Accounting and everyone else knows I BS it and they are totally ok with it...but yet I still have to do it. A yearly salary would be a nice way to get rid of the paperwork, but I'd end up getting a pay cut in the long run.
When I worked in private sector, I did weekly time sheets accounting for time down to the 0.1 hour. It was terrible.

I've since moved into public work and the timesheet process is a breeze, but obnoxious. I just enter 8 hours a day across a single billing code, yay. The pain is the system is about 20 years out of date and relies on too many eyes in the review process.
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Old 01-10-20, 06:33 AM
  #4335  
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I don't mind entering my time. In my last two jobs, I was on government contracts, so I had to account for time spent on any contract up to .1 hours, like hack. There were months when I had 30 different charge codes I was managing.

I just think it's odd that our system sends ME the notification when my manager has not yet approved my card. It doesn't send my manager, who is the responsible party here, the notice. Oracle has really made an overly complicated and not at all user friendly system.
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Old 01-10-20, 07:09 AM
  #4336  
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I used to hate having to put things out to the decimal like that. Because it often took me more than 6 minutes to figure out all my time distributions. But was there a code for figuring out how to bill my time? Nope, that had to be done on my time.
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Old 01-10-20, 08:55 AM
  #4337  
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The Chung stuff works GREAT for comparing A to B. Not for determining the absolute values of A and B.

So, you can determine that helmet A is better than B by a CdA of .005. But you can't say your CdA with helmet A is .230 and with B it is .235.

Even adding in known live sensor wind vectors I don't think it is good enough to determine an absolute. Close, but close counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

I'm going to kick tires locally among some triathletes with money to see if anyone wants to get together and do arena laps on the Chung method and swap helmets and swap equipment you're interested in buying someday.

I need to setup my Arduino Uno to a $25 pitot sensor and log the wind on test rides to get my Chung numbers even more reliable for equipment choices.

And buy a set of rollers to get good known CRR values to plug into the Chung models.
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Old 01-10-20, 09:08 AM
  #4338  
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Originally Posted by himespau
I used to hate having to put things out to the decimal like that. Because it often took me more than 6 minutes to figure out all my time distributions. But was there a code for figuring out how to bill my time? Nope, that had to be done on my time.
We had that at my last job. I never used it though. I just included time card time under my overhead code.
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Old 01-10-20, 10:31 AM
  #4339  
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The designers and engineers who work for me often have just one code per day, or even per week.

Meanwhile, I have 10 codes a day, down to the quarter hour (which I totally do by feel, often at the end of the week) in a terrible home brew time system. It's a mess.
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Old 01-10-20, 12:33 PM
  #4340  
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I've been in these time card reporting situations on both sides. The information is very valuable to managers especially if clients need to be billed for appropriate amounts of time spent on work or just to understand what projects are consuming the most time. But managers are never able to understand the overhead required, or that the data they get is often a rough guess. (Edit: I should say 'managers are sometimes unable to ...' rather than never able'. Don't want to be unfair to managers...)

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Old 01-10-20, 02:37 PM
  #4341  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro
We had that at my last job. I never used it though. I just included time card time under my overhead code.
We have that. I never used it until I became a supervisor and had to spend actual time dealing with other people's timesheets.
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Old 01-12-20, 06:52 PM
  #4342  
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Originally Posted by cmh
I've been in these time card reporting situations on both sides. The information is very valuable to managers especially if clients need to be billed for appropriate amounts of time spent on work or just to understand what projects are consuming the most time. But managers are never able to understand the overhead required, or that the data they get is often a rough guess. (Edit: I should say 'managers are sometimes unable to ...' rather than never able'. Don't want to be unfair to managers...)
I got annoyed at a manager who was asking me to do time reports when I knew full well he wasn't even looking at them. So I just stopped submitting them. Took him almost a full year before he noticed, at which time he told the rest of the staff to stop doing them.
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Old 01-12-20, 09:27 PM
  #4343  
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Originally Posted by Enthalpic
I got annoyed at a manager who was asking me to do time reports when I knew full well he wasn't even looking at them. So I just stopped submitting them. Took him almost a full year before he noticed, at which time he told the rest of the staff to stop doing them.
At the car dealer we were supposed to clock in and out daily, in and out for lunch, and in and out on every repair order for every job we did, which could be 20 jobs per day. I stopped doing it for 10 YEARS! I didn't use the clock for 10 years. Finally, they cracked down and I tried to do it.
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Old 01-13-20, 02:15 PM
  #4344  
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Strava doesn't matter.

But, freaking check for HRM or power data before flagging "done in car". That's just lazy. If a segment has your lightning bolt for real power AND you peg'd your HR at the 170's to 180's for it.........it's real.

But, conspiracy theory...........it's a local rival team's member. Duh dun dun.........mystery!
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Old 01-13-20, 03:07 PM
  #4345  
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Originally Posted by Enthalpic
I got annoyed at a manager who was asking me to do time reports when I knew full well he wasn't even looking at them. So I just stopped submitting them. Took him almost a full year before he noticed, at which time he told the rest of the staff to stop doing them.
We'll I guess the info wasn't valuable to your manager if he didn't notice for a year. That's just plain bad management. It was valuable in the organization I was in that required it. It was used to bill customers, as well as to estimate the time it would take to complete new projects. I definitely get the pain of everyone that needs to turn in time cards.
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Old 01-13-20, 04:47 PM
  #4346  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep
Strava doesn't matter.

But, freaking check for HRM or power data before flagging "done in car". That's just lazy. If a segment has your lightning bolt for real power AND you peg'd your HR at the 170's to 180's for it.........it's real.

But, conspiracy theory...........it's a local rival team's member. Duh dun dun.........mystery!
I mean, that can all be faked (any Strava data can be relatively easily manipulated by anyone who cares to do it).

I assume you know the segment was legit, but you can't really know for sure unless you were there and have your own data.
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Old 01-13-20, 05:50 PM
  #4347  
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Originally Posted by cmh
We'll I guess the info wasn't valuable to your manager if he didn't notice for a year. That's just plain bad management. It was valuable in the organization I was in that required it. It was used to bill customers, as well as to estimate the time it would take to complete new projects. I definitely get the pain of everyone that needs to turn in time cards.
Yes, very poor management. In fairness, we rarely billed our clients as they were almost always internal, even the rare external clients weren't billed based on time (flat rate chemical analysis).
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Old 01-13-20, 06:40 PM
  #4348  
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I was invited to join a Facebook group of riders who raced before 1980. They know I didn't race but I guess I'm guilty by association.
They have cool pictures like this one from Wembley in 1980.


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Old 01-13-20, 11:41 PM
  #4349  
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Originally Posted by Flatballer
I mean, that can all be faked (any Strava data can be relatively easily manipulated by anyone who cares to do it).

I assume you know the segment was legit, but you can't really know for sure unless you were there and have your own data.
And that is different than road racing how?
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Old 01-15-20, 10:46 AM
  #4350  
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Is this a question of Cartesian certitude and the unreliability of sense experience?
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