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Training Status??? (IV)

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Training Status??? (IV)

Old 04-13-17, 07:12 AM
  #8426  
topflightpro
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I did the 20 hour a week thing many years ago. I took a deliberate approach to building up to 20 hours and was using it largely for off-season base building. But, after doing that for awhile, I just burned out. I didn't want to ride anymore. It became work.

Training is still work, but when I'm only worried about getting in 1.5 hours a few nights a week, it's not so bad.
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Old 04-13-17, 07:44 AM
  #8427  
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riding has been largely nonexistent lately, ctl is down to 22. I'd like to actually race this season, after not doing anything last year, but I may limit myself to the local training crit where I can embarrass myself without the guilt of spending money and driving.
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Old 04-13-17, 07:45 AM
  #8428  
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See, I've done the zero to hero thing and wound up very very injured ignoring repetitive stress stuff. inflamed achilles lead to altering my pedaling form which lead to runners knee in both knees (from biking!), which lead to a really weird issue with my left hip. Then I had to take 6 weeks off entirely so all the #swole I had achieved went away and I had to start over again. And that was in 2011, after I had been training off and on half-assing it since I first started riding in like 2006. You're much better off doing regular workloads as your body adapts, and doing that consistently over time.

The advice I am giving is coming from personal experience. As a perma-3 I've done the Tucson winter thing 2x, went to Belgium for a winter, yadda yadda. Monster volume without long-term consistency really just doesn't pay off at all. It wasn't until 2014 when I got a power meter and started listening to my coach that the gains started coming. He started me off with like 10-12hr weeks and then during base I was doing like 15-18hrs a week and thought I was crushing it. Even then I was definitely riding too hard (which was my fault, my coach kept being like dial it back, too many watts). The whole saga is laid out in the various training threads. It's super super obvious I had no idea wtf I was doing haha, and even now it's only like the past year or so that things have really come together and I get "it".

Anyway like I said, the enthusiasm is awesome, but don't let it cloud your better judgment.
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Old 04-13-17, 08:10 AM
  #8429  
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No Doge.

I see two outcomes possible. Most likely is not worrying about winning in the 5's as I try staying safe while getting as much experience as possible locally. Let the cards fall where they may and keep soaking up things learned from mistakes. The second aligns my training to start racing in earnest Jan. 1 in cycling Xanadu with a coach (While trying to stay safe and get as much experience as possible.)

Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
Dig the enthusiasm, but you're going to need race punch before you're going to need to be good 4hrs deep. With respect, you are biting off more than you can chew.
The one thing I glossed over that's driving the hours as much or more than anything else is breathing. Such a huge part of this sport. Doing it sufficiently in deep cold without fogging up or freezing holes shut isn't the forceful open jawed affair required in fair to hot weather. You can take that as admission of struggling with one very important aspect I need in place. Last Saturday I figured out muscular failure without being out of breath was lack of oxygen. Wednesday morning it became top priority everything else would work towards. A little fire is exactly what I need. A damped one is what I have.

All the helpful comments are duly appreciated.
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Old 04-13-17, 10:27 AM
  #8430  
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Muscle failure while nose breathing isn't lack of oxygen. You need intervals, and you need to be fresh enough to consistently put in time in the correct zones.
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Old 04-13-17, 10:49 AM
  #8431  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
You need intervals, and you need to be fresh enough to consistently put in time in the correct zones.

This is spot-on.


Its hard to wrap your head around, how more-is-less. It seems like more should be more.


I remember when I first started training with my coach he commented that I has surprisingly poor aerobic fitness for someone who rode as much as I did (I was routinely riding 100-150 mile training rides at that point). I remember thinking WTF? I have really good endurance, which is all about aerobic fitness, right? I lack speed.


But the guy seemed like he knew what he was doing so I went along with it.


Eventually I came to understand what he was talking about. It was really that high-end aerobic fitness that I was lacking, the stuff that gets better with interval workouts and the kind of workouts you really can't do if you're fatigued all the time.


I'm still slow of course. Just less slow than I was.
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Old 04-13-17, 12:27 PM
  #8432  
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Hold your breath and do tempo up a hill. I was doing exactly that without consciously realizing it during anything requiring effort.

What all of you are saying is very important once I've corrected this.

Edit: I suspected the wrong issue so I have been going too easy on intervals like 20 x 1' on the rollers.

Last edited by miyata man; 04-13-17 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 04-13-17, 04:32 PM
  #8433  
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unless your rollers have some form of resistance unit you will always be going too easy doing 1' intervals on the rollers.
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Old 04-13-17, 05:17 PM
  #8434  
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Originally Posted by mike868y
unless your rollers have some form of resistance unit you will always be going too easy doing 1' intervals on the rollers.
I'll say. I tried doing a 20' power test on rollers once, spun so fast that I got disoriented and fell over. Coulda really hurt myself. That was one of the dumber things I've tried.
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Old 04-13-17, 05:44 PM
  #8435  
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Originally Posted by grolby
That was one of the dumber things I've tried.
this sounds like it should be its own thread.
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Old 04-13-17, 05:54 PM
  #8436  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
You totally can do 15-20hr weeks without being rekt, but it takes a while to get to that point and a lot of discipline once you're doing it. You don't just decide you're going to start smashing out that sort of volume and expect it to go well, n'ahh sayin? I certainly wouldn't do a 20hr week while racing on the weekends and I have the rest of my life revolving around bikes.
Originally Posted by mattm
Yup.

It depends a ton on what you did in months (and years) leading up to the big base, as well as how much intensity you do during it.
and how many 1-year-old kids you have
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Old 04-13-17, 06:16 PM
  #8437  
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Originally Posted by tetonrider
this sounds like it should be its own thread.
It could probably be its own book.
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Old 04-13-17, 06:31 PM
  #8438  
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This is getting tedious. What is important here is I understand the difference between how to train on rollers v trainer. Meaning I was doing high cadence in too low a gear to notice I was barely sipping warmer air instead of using my diaphragm.

In form that crit was no harder than the last 45 minutes of testy little efforts rolling back to the meeting point at the end of a century. Going to quit posting in here for the time being and focus on the issues this year presented. If things click, that's a couple days of not being the center of attention when the stunningly simple answer all agree on has been thoroughly covered.
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Old 04-13-17, 07:34 PM
  #8439  
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I got in:
3.5 hrs two weeks ago,
5.0 hrs last week
and 3 hrs so far this week.

Almost every ride is high SST/low FTP 1 hr long ride. I'm seeing my watts begin to come up, but I'm soo soo very weak. That's what full time work and full time school over the last 4 years will do to your fitness I guess...
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Old 04-13-17, 09:26 PM
  #8440  
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Miyata Mans posts make me feel like I'm trying to read while half drunk.
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Old 04-14-17, 08:38 AM
  #8441  
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Originally Posted by therhodeo
Miyata Mans posts make me feel like I'm trying to read while half drunk.
I haven't been in here much lately. I'll try to take up translation duties again. It's thesaurus syndrome with a sprinkle of wrong-words put through the thesaurus.
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Old 04-14-17, 09:29 AM
  #8442  
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What I got from his latest post is that he basically holds his breath while pedaling hard...I think?!
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Old 04-14-17, 09:37 AM
  #8443  
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I guess I must be dense because I can't tell what the "stunningly simple answer we all agree on" is. Though, to be honest, I'm not even sure what the question was.
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Old 04-14-17, 10:33 AM
  #8444  
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Hopefully the stuff he tries is successful. I dig on the enthusiasm, just hope it's channeled properly into #swolegainz
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Old 04-14-17, 11:26 AM
  #8445  
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Here is an idea for a translation sequence going from one poster to another to understand miyata man. I think Doge goes first. With his vast experience with juniors, (who can be unintelligible at times), and low USAC license number, he seems like a shoe in to take the first pass. Doge can be a little out there so we need an experienced Cat 1 with a proven reading comprehension and written communication skill set and interpretive power to translate Doge. Fudgy seems perfect and interprets Doge. TheKillerpenguin is needed to add the east coast "flair" and interprets Fudgy. Finally, there is only one person on the planet who can possibly understand the TKP, Globecanvas, finishes.
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Old 04-14-17, 11:47 AM
  #8446  
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First ride out on the Quarq yesterday, did a couple of ~17ish minute intervals

Interestingly, it's much easier to hold power steady on it than on the Stages. Much less fluctuation on the 3s readout when I feel like I'm keeping things even. Definitely lower Watts for the level of exertion. Also, looks like my actual sprint watts are down too. Was sorta hoping those weren't reading too much higher since I imagine the L/R balance may be quite different in a sprint. Did a couple jumps just to test it out, and only saw 1100w peak and 1036 for 5s, which is pretty dissapointing :\ I did do them at the end of the ride, so maybe fresh would yield better numbers. I've definitely not felt like my sprint was ever a limiter, and I was hitting 1200s back in my Powertap days when I was first starting out, so hoping the endurance work hasn't decreased my jump that much! Then again, I did a drag race against an 115 lbs rider on a slight incline and was ahead by a bike length. His 5s for that effort was ~1050w, putting him at about 20W/kg. Meanwhile, Stages had me at 1264w, or 18.6 W/kg. What does it mean? Who knows?

Anyway, interesting seeing the power graph of a steady effort on the Stages compared to the Quarq:

Quarq:


Stages:


This was done on the same climb. Interestingly, it looks like I shift gears in mostly the same spots based on the cadence graphs. Had a decent tailwind yesterday accounting for some of the speed difference
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Old 04-14-17, 12:06 PM
  #8447  
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I was gonna say something or other about my gf understanding me too, but I guess she wouldn't put up with it if she actually did.
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Old 04-14-17, 05:23 PM
  #8448  
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Last ride in the Dominican Republic this morning. Lucas and I went out with Umberto, the owner of the local shop. He was on his TT bike, which was a Venge with aerobars. Nice guy and very strong, but did not seem to know how to pull through without accelerating and gapping. Frustrating. More frustrating was that my Spanish isn't good enough to convey the message to stop doing that.

Anyway, we did 42 miles and Lucas hung in there like a champ. Umberto's shop is a Specialized dealer and he hooked Lucas up with a really nice Allez. I think I will keep my eye open for a used Allez frameset for Lucas' next bike.
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Old 04-14-17, 05:47 PM
  #8449  
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Openers, or something. Still trying to figure out what I need to do the day before a race...

but..

I get to play bike games tomorrow!
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Old 04-15-17, 04:16 AM
  #8450  
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That's a super steady power output, @wktmeow!
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