twocicle

I am curious if anyone knows whether or not disc brakes are allowed at the US Masters Nationals - Tandems mass start event?

AFAIK, National Championship level events are held under UCI regulations, with only minor exceptions where necessary (last year's regulations can be found at https://s3.amazonaws.com/USACWeb/for...nts.pdf​ if you're curious to see what kind of things are allowed/disallowed).

At this point the UCI has not permitted disc brakes to be used on mass start bicycles. However, I believe mountain bike races are allowing discs. No?

Further to confusion, this photo from the 2014 Nationals 70+ category in Utah shows the 4th tandem in line does indeed have a front disc rotor plus a brake cable running down the fork (I zoomed way in with a photo viewer to see that):



Maybe the referee just decided to ignore the brake rules, or what?

merlinextraligh

Only data point I have to add is they don't apply UCI regs to tandems for the TT. So my guess is the refs wouldn't make an issue of discs for the RR

twocicle

Just received an answer from the Technical Director USA Cycling regarding tandems+disc brake question...

My stoker was asking me about us heading to Utah this fall for the road event. I pointed out that we are right at the high end of the 90+ category. Next year would be 110+. Hmmm, dunno.

Carbonello

I'd suggest going, it's good experience so next year there will be fewer surprises. And looks like you are relatively close.
Bob

twocicle

UCI recently announced allowing disc brakes in all 2016 road races.

After I was involved in a nasty RR crash in June and still suffering the effects (permanently mangled wrist), I'm not sure I'll ever want to risk racing among spinning red hot ginsu knives. IMO, at a minimum, UCI should have mandated safer (ie: dull) disc edges.

waynesulak

I agree. I fear marketing is invoking the golden rule. Think of some of the huge pile ups early in the Tour on live TV...

B. Carfree

I need to get out more. The only disc brake I own is on the rear wheel of a tandem and it's not anything that could be confused with a knife. Do people really have sharp-edged rotors?

I wouldn't worry about them anyway. There's plenty of other sharp objects to be found in a pile-up, including the tongues of those who are certain the whole thing was someone else's fault. Sharp rotors would be the least of my concerns. At least if the rotor is nice and hot it will cauterize the wound as it cuts.

qspencer

I assume the sharp edge a lot of people are worried about is just the 90 degree edge at the corners of the disc. There's a video where a couple of guys tried cutting through a sausage using a hot disc brake edge after a long descent. It cut a little, but convinced me that discs aren't any bigger concern in a crash than, say, a chainring. Rounding those corners a bit isn't a bad idea, though.

JanMM

Park probably sells a Tool to do just that............

LastKraftWagen

I asked this question a few years back and was told by USAC tech that they really didn't have any technical guidelines for tandems... Not sure if this translated over to UCI though.

LastKraftWagen

As for discs, unless the pile up is in a good descent how often will the discs really be blistering glowing red when you go down. I'm guessing there really isn't enough time between panic try to stop and pile up to light up the discs. Cutting edges however, only fall on the bikes laying disc side down.

mtseymour

I'm not aware of any data showing that disk brakes lead to higher injuries on mtn or road bikes. After mtn biking for twenty years with disk brakes, it's rare to hear about injuries from disk rotors. Although it's common to crash on mtn bikes, other hazards are far more dangerous (rocks, trees, jumps, etc). With road bikes, riders are more likely to be hurt from hitting the pavement than from rotors or other bike parts. I remember one crash on the 2011 Tour de France where a support car swerved into the peloton and caused a pile-up. An unlucky racer go thrown into a barbed wire fence and was badly skewered. At a local Gran Fondo, one rider crashed after hitting a carelessly discarded water bottle and suffered a serious head injury when he collided with a concrete divider.

twocicle

Road racing typically involves a tight pack of riders. I've personally ridden in race packs of over 100 and many other events (Fondos, etc) of very many more. That makes for 200+ spinning blades given the current rotor designs.

Obviously there is little safety data for road racing with discs because up till recently, this was not allowed and really did not exist on road bikes.

mtseymour

UCI has allowed disk brakes in mtn bike races for about 20 years in downhill and XC races. Although mtn bikes crash more frequently than road bikes, most injuries are caused by trail hazards (eg. rocks, trees), handlebars, stems, and saddles rather than by disk rotors. Road rotors are even less obtrusive because they're smaller (140mm vs 180mm). My review is consistent with various medical studies on mtn bike injuries. Disk rotor injuries are so rare that they have not been documented. Here's one study:

Severe street and mountain bicycling injuries in adults: a comparison of the incidence, risk factors and injury patterns over 14 years

Hot rotors are also rare. Racers and skilled riders use the brake as little as possible, even on very fast descents. At the Tour de France, racers will exceed 50 mph on alpine descents, and will often pedal between turns. According to Mark Cavendish, his top speed at the 2009 Tour de Suisse exceeded 70 mph. Racers just don't drag their brakes to heat up their rotors.

Road racing has been late to adopt disk brakes because of weight, neutral support, and conservative attitudes. Road bikes are now so light that disk brakes will actually help to meet the 15 lb minimum. By allowing teams to test disk brakes in 2 events of their choice, UCI is hoping to sort out the the hassles of neutral support (eg. Mavic wheel vehicle). Some racers worry about a disk vs rim brakes in the peloton, but have a history of adapting to new equipment (eg. dual pivot brakes, carbon rims).

I think that this issue is mainly about resistance to change.

twocicle

Racing = aggression, so Fondo's and other rides are not quite the same thing.

BTW, you are preaching to an active Cat 2 road racer with race experience going back over 35 years. Although I'm mostly racing in masters packs these days, I still rub elbows (and this year skin) in some races with Pro/1/2 men's elite. I have yet to hear anyone say they are looking forward to having disc rotors in our race packs.

It takes only a couple seconds of hard braking to get rotor temps up to skin burning mode. Go ahead and try it.

Team Fab

Some money to be made in disk brake guards for road bikes.

To be honest, never even thought about being cut or burned by road disks until brought up. My biggest worry is road rash/head injury.

I think you will see many"I told you so" injuries pop up that would have gone unreported in the past(such as chain ring bites).

And yes disks get hot fast. Back in the day I lit my smokes on my motorcycle disks after races. And this forum has seen its fair share of melted disks and calipers.