downtube42

Winter, recovering from an injury. Nothing much else to do but dream...

Stuff for next rando bike:

Room for 38s plus fenders. 40 even. More even.
Speaking of fenders, full coverage with mud flaps
While we're at it, eyelets for fenders and racks
Three water bottle mounts
700c wheels. I'm tall and there's plenty tire selection at 700c.
Generator hub lighting front and rear.
Headlamp on the fork crown
Rechargeable 2nd headlight on the bars for high beam.
Generator tail light mounted on the rear fender.
Second battery powered tail-light on the seatpost
Gearing will be low low low. Did I mention low? I want to spin at 5 mph.
Coupled for travel
Cable shifters
Hydraulic discs (I think there are hydraulic couplers available)
Shallow flared drop bars
Tubeless ready, shallow v, alloy, black, no sticker rims
Wahoo Element GPS
Handlebar bag
Under-seat bag
Chain hanger on the seatstay. Because I like them.
Pump peg and frame pump, if such things still exist.
Externally routed cables with cable stops and maximum exposed inner wire

Things I'm on the fence about
Tubes or tubeless.
1x, 2x, or 3x, tending toward 2x
Shifter location/type
Frame material. Steel is the baseline, but lighter weight is tempting.
Frame color. Tending toward red or blue.
Fender color. Tending toward matching the frame.

Other thoughts
2nd wheelset for winter wheels i.e. studded tires
3rd front wheel sans dyno. For more spirited fair weather rides.
I like the idea of a leather seat, but I live in the PNW. Seat covers are an unwanted hassle.

I should use my downtime to figure out a way to pay for this.

What's on your list?

unterhausen

I have multiple dream rando bikes, but that's a different issue. I definitely want a disc rando with larger tires, because my gravel bike keeps getting switched to that duty and then it's a pain to switch it back for gravel duty.

I modified a Lezyne pump to fit on the seat stay (as is the custom now with framebuilders).
I would go tubeless on anything over 38mm. I am not convinced about tubeless on smaller tires.
I think a front rando rack is worth having. Rando front bag is the best improvement for me since dynohubs. That means the headlight has to be mounted on the rack. Adds a bit of complication for the wiring
I like 2x. Going to get a Shimano GRX crank, I think. OTOH, the gravel bike might be going to 1x

I have 2 chain hangers on my travel bike. One is a Columbine Qwikchanger, and the other is a Rinko style chain hanger up on the drive side seat stay just below the brakes. That one was useful right away when I was building up the bike.

downtube42

Right with you on the multiple dream rando bikes. I'll just focus on one bike I can't afford for now
I just spent an hour looking at various frame pump mountings. Some are pretty cool. Requires further study.
I'll add front rack braze-ons; I didn't think of that.

Cheers

anotherbrian

Unless the top tube is perfectly horizontal, a pump/pump peg is gauche. Either put it on the seat stay, hide it in a bag, or use a mini-pump mounted at the cage.

I just built my dream'ish bike ... Routt 45 with rack mounts on the mono seat stay. Three bottles, Di2 GRX with internally routed wiring in handlebar, hydro discs, and Barlow Pass 38 Extralights on Belgium Plus wheels. Fenders are still TBD (hidden mounts) as I'm currently shocked at the $45 shipping for a set of Rene Herse and will be putting some old plastic Planet Bikes on for now.

I didn't do a coupled bike, as I have a Ritchey Breakaway and a 29er MTB, and those have got lots of scrapes and dings over the years of travel ... I don't want to scratch the forever bike.

Only thing I think I'm missing is a front rack. There are a number of carbon bikepacking forks out now, and maybe by next summer I'll look at supplementing the stock fork with something I could put a porteur rack on.

Tourist in MSN

No USB charger on the dynohub? If you have the dynohub, the charger is not a big addition.

Battery taillight, if you have a large seat bag the light can be blocked. Suggest seatstay mount for battery taillight, or one that you can instead put on a rack if you occasionally use a rear rack.

For a coupled bike, would you be happier with plastic fenders that are easily replaced instead of custom painting fenders to match the frame? And make sure you can fit it in the case. I can't fit my fenders in the case with my S&S bike, fenders stay home.

I put a fender mounted dyno powered taillight on my Lynskey, but that is not a coupled bike. I do not use dyno powererd taillights on a coupled bike, the wiring is more than I want to deal with when I pack or unpack the bike. Plus, I often use a blinking taillight in daytime, so I consider my battery taillight(s) to be my primary light and the dyno taillight to be my secondary taillight.

Are you really sure you need hydraulic brakes with a coupled bike?

Pump mount, see rule 30 (I readily admit that I often violate this rule myself):
https://www.velominati.com/the-rules...pumps-rule-30/

For low gearing, you will need a total wide range of gearing or you might spin out on the downhills. Thus, unless you want a huge cassette, get a triple. I have pretty good gearing with a road triple and an 11/32 cassette.

Handlebar bag, you did not mention how you mount it. But if you have a fork crown mounted headlight, that suggests not on a front rack. That said, get any fork mounts that you might need later if you wanted to put a front rack on. I use a second stem, not a front rack for my handlebar bags. Some time back I described my second stem setups on some of my bikes, photos here:
https://www.bikeforums.net/19930025-post28.html

noglider 

I like your list!

I have a Brooks C17 saddle. It offers the same comfort as a B17, and I can let it get wet.

downtube42

UH mentioned the front rando rack, which I've mentally added to the list, along with a headlight mount on the rack.

I could do mechanical discs if hydro couplers are an issue. I love the hydro discs on my commuter though.

I try to minimize electronics. At the moment I favor a power brick for the GPS rather than USB port. As far as phone, I typically go phone lite on brevets.

I've seen bikes ahead of me disappear into the darkness when their rear tire blocked the light from seat stay mounting. All it takes is a road of just the wrong curve. I've seen randos put one on each side. My bike will be around 61cm, so depending on the rear bag chosen I might be okay with seatpost mounting.

The fender packing issue is worth some thought. I've removed fenders for travel before. Fiddling with them on arrival is a pain.

downtube42

Oh yeah, rule 30. Being a rando itself violates the letter of many rules, and I think goes against the spirit of the whole concept.

Having said that, this bike will have a dead level top tube.

OTOH, CO2 is for rides under 600k, and even then does not replace the need for a pump unless you have a team car and/our your plan includes calling a SO for help. Running out of time is legit reason to DNF. Running out of cartridges is not.
​​​​​​

atwl77

I don't have an as-comprehensive list as yours, but I do have a couple of general points for my dream rando rig:

- carbon race bike
- moderately small chainrings up front (maybe something like 48/32), and 11-32 or (maybe even 11-34) at the back.
- round seatpost. As much as I like aero, but round has better compatibility with various lights and bags
- round handle bar. Again, as much as I like aero (and is also more comfortable on the tops), but most devices like round better
- no electronic shifting. It's the best thing since sliced bread when it works, but arguably the worst kind of problem if it doesn't
- similar to the reasons above, no tubeless... or at least this current generation of tubeless. I'll take a pair of 28mm Panaracer Gravel Kings, and a couple of tubes
- definitely want aero bars, it's been a game changer for me
- carbon wheels around the 50mm-ish range... something like a Zipp 404 or Campy Bora or a custom build by the LBS

StephenH

Be sure and make it a tandem and find a stoker willing to travel.

downtube42

Updated

• Room for 38s plus fenders. 40 even. More even.
• Speaking of fenders, full coverage with mud flaps
• While we're at it, eyelets for fenders and racks
• Fork mounts for a front rando rack
• Three water bottle mounts
• 700c wheels. I'm tall and there's plenty tire selection at 700c.
• Generator hub lighting front and rear.
• Headlamp on the front rack
• Rechargeable 2nd headlight on the bars for high beam.
• Generator tail light mounted on the rear fender.
• Second battery powered tail-light on the seatpost
• Gearing will be low low low. Did I mention low? I want to spin at 5 mph.
• Coupled for travel
• Cable shifters
• Disc brakes
• Shallow flared drop bars
• Tubeless ready, shallow v, alloy, black, no sticker rims
• Wahoo Element GPS
• Handlebar bag
• Under-seat bag
• Chain hanger on the seatstay. Because I like them.
• Pump peg and frame pump, if such things still exist.
• Externally routed cables with cable stops and maximum exposed inner wire

Things to consider

• Hydraulic or mechanical discs. Depends on coupler technology.
• Paint matching custom metal fenders or replacable off-the-shelf fenders
• Frame pump mounting location.
• Frame and fork material. Tending toward steel/carbon.

Tourist in MSN

One solution, I have occasionally seen photos of French rando bikes that have a taillight that is mounted to the frame seat tube, located below the top tube and faces aft so that the light beam is between the seat stays. But I have never seen such lights mounted on a bike that lacks a brazed on fitting for it. If you installed your taillight in that location on your relatively tall frame that should easily clear any saddle bag you use as long as you do not use a rear rack.

Although I have removed the rear rack for brevets, I usually have a rear rack on my 58 or 59cm frames, the rack would obscure the light, thus such a light would not work for me.

ThermionicScott 

Now that you mention it, I don't think I've ever seen one mounted a droite.

pdlamb

Good point. I was going to say any bike that made me feel like I was half my age would be a dream bike, but a good stoker on the bike might make that dream even better!

unterhausen

I am too short for a seat tube mounted light. And I generally like to have a seat bag, so it would be a problem anyway. Fender for the rear dyno light is the way to go. If it's going to be a coupled bike, it's nice to have downtube shifter bosses because IRD makes a travel bike boss that fits on those. Of course, that only works with steel.

kingston 

@downtube42, a couple of thoughts on travelling with your bike. I don't think couplers on your bike will save you that much money and will be a lot more hassle compared to just putting it in a full-size bike box and shipping it. I just got an S&S bike this year and have only traveled with it 3 times so I'm not exactly an expert, but I'm pretty sure you won't be able to get all the stuff on your list in one S&S hardside case and keep it under 50 lbs. You'll have to check 2 bags, not a huge deal, but on 3 of the 4 major US airlines, a round trip flight with 2 checked bags will cost more than shipping both ways on bikeflights, so something to consider. I also wouldn't want disks or especially hydraulic disks with quick-connects on a coupled bike. It takes me at least an hour on each end to disassemble/build the bike (the first time took a lot longer). The less stuff I have to deal with the better, so when I travel with the bike, I leave the dynamo lighting, fenders and rack at home. I have regular caliper brakes on my travel bike that I can set-up and adjust in a few seconds. With mechanical disks, I'd have to install the disks, center the calpers and adjust the pads, which I would guess adds at least 10 minutes per wheel. Same thing with hydraulics except you have to hope that the quick-connects worked, otherwise you have to bleed the hoses. Not only would that take a bunch of extra time, you would need to pack all the equipment to be able to do it in the first place. Totally not worth the hassle for me when rim brakes still work just fine. Fenders another half-hour, rack another 15 minutes, etc. Each thing doesn't take that long, but when you add it all up it's more time than I want to spend fiddling around with my bike for a 1-2 day ride, which is what my trips have been. Even for a 1,200k I would just keep it to the basics. For a full-on randonneuse like you are considering, I'd just go rinko with a full-sized box and plan on shipping it both ways. Everything will be so much easier when you don't have to split the bike in half and tetris all the parts into a standard suitcase.

unterhausen

I took my S&S bike to France in a regular size case because I got it ready too late to buy a case. It was free on the way back, same price as a second bag on the way there. I built a rack that comes apart. Some of the Nitto rando racks have adjustable struts so they will fold up. Getting both my suitcase and the bike underr 50lb was a pain. An S&S backpack is probably lighter than a hardshell case, but offers a little less protection. The main damage comes from other parts of the bike, most likely.

I was a bit shocked when I put the couplers on the tubes. What had been a nice, light tube turned into a much heavier assembly. Overall, it's probably not that important, but I have not totally gotten over my weight weenie stage.

Can't believe anyone would cite a veluminati rule in this forum unironically. I have come to the conclusion that those guys were trying to get people to do stupid things, like ride a long distance with over-filled jersey pockets. I recently saw a video of a pro road cyclist with a giant bikepacking seat bag. I thought I saw something where the original authors expressed regret over ever publishing them.

Tourist in MSN

Coupled bikes - I am happy that I got S&S couplings on my expedition bike. And now that airlines are waiving the oversize fee for bikes, I am happy that I traveled enough with it to cover the cost savings for the couplers and the S&S Backpack case before the airlines dropped those fees, it would take longer now to recover those costs.

Regarding folding racks, the Racktime Foldit rack is pretty easy to collapse but it takes a lot of little screws, so it would just add more time. Comes in two versions, the adjustable one collapses even smaller than the other. And is reasonably light.
https://www.racktime.com/en/racktime...it-adjustable/

I always have my luggage scale when flying. I do not want to be trying to dig stuff out of a checked bag when it is on the scale at the ticketing agent desk. A luggage scale is the travelers best friend.


Apparently my subtle attempt at humor was not taken as intended, oops.

downtube42

The Rules are humor. When people take them as otherwise, it adds to the humor.

Aside from Rule 5

clasher

One of my rando buddies got a coupled bike for pbp this year and lamented the time it took to pack. I just put mine in a plastic bag now and it was 70$ each way. Turn the bars sideways and take off the pedals. I mount the bags and pack them up, since a checked bag was 40$ so I managed to live out of a carry on bag for my time in France. Did the same thing in 2018 when I flew out to try the Cascade 1200.

If I had a coupled bike with hydraulic discs I'd just take the rear caliper off, but the bike would need an external hose for that to work. I haven't installed a lot of disc calipers but the I did seemed easy enough.

unterhausen

It's definitely worth considering foregoing the couplers and spending the money on something like the Airport Ninja, which is barely larger than an S&S bag. The big advantage I see to a coupled bike is the size of the case is small enough to fit in a regular taxi if you have to.

That wasn't really an issue on my PBP trip. Last time, it was a bit of a pain getting my family and my bike is a small van on the way back to the airport.

To get my bike into a full-size case, I pretty much disassembled it as much as I would have with the couplers separated. I didn't get cable separators for the derailleur cables, which would be required on most bikes.

Koyote

What causes it to fail?

atwl77

Who knows. Battery issues, connection issues, whatever. Someone had Di2 problems during a 1000k, front derailleur wasn't responding, no one could resolve the issue, stuck in the big ring for the remainder of the ride.

On a regular group or club ride, it's no biggie. Finish the ride, then take the bike to the shop to fix. In the middle of an ultra endurance event... disaster.

Koyote

This seems like the usual fear of new things. I've seen no evidence that Di2 systems have problems any more frequently than mechanical systems. In fact, after only 2500 miles on my new-ish Di2 bike, it seems like it'll probably be more reliable than a mechanical drivetrain.

atwl77

You missed the point, it isn't about frequency or reliability. It's about what you can do if it fails. In my example above, several experienced people at the controle couldn't figure it out. A friend of mine recently had connection issues, messed around with the thing and eventually took the bike to the shop to get it rectified. I don't need this kind of stress during an ultra endurance ride. With a mechanical derailleur, all I need are spare cables (you bring them on 1000k and above, don't you?) and tools and I can fix 99% of any issue that comes up.

Likewise with tubeless. Sure they generally work. But on the rare occasion that they don't seal, I don't want to deal with putting a tube into a messy gunk-filled tire in the middle of an event, and also deal with mounting and unmounting tighter-than-usual tires in the process. And yes, a couple of people I have ridden with had exactly this problem - punctures that aren't sealing.