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You Don't Need Those Light Weight Wheels

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You Don't Need Those Light Weight Wheels

Old 07-13-20, 10:53 PM
  #51  
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This doesn't tell me how heavy is too heavy to use for Zwift.
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Old 07-13-20, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
What difference does it make when it happens? If you attack, you want to accelerate quickly to open a gap.
It isn’t about just creating a gap. You have to be able to make the gap stick. Watch a flat stage. The breakaway will be in the lead for half the race and then get passed with 1K to go. If the goal is a win, you need to be able to make it stick.
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Old 07-13-20, 11:08 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Hermes
I will give up my lightweight wheels when you can pry them from my cold dead hands.
Won't that damage the delicate plastic rims?
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Old 07-13-20, 11:11 PM
  #54  
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Does adding 100ml of sealant slow me down any more than 100g of butyl inner-tube?

When we were kids we used to prank one another by putting water inside bike inner tubes. The water would want to stay at the bottom of the wheel, so you were constantly fighting inertia.
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Old 07-13-20, 11:14 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by colnago62
It isn’t about just creating a gap. You have to be able to make the gap stick. Watch a flat stage. The breakaway will be in the lead for half the race and then get passed with 1K to go. If the goal is a win, you need to be able to make it stick.
Racers attack at different points in a race for a variety of reasons. Whether or not an early breakaway succeeds is a separate issue.

In all cases, it's imperative for an attacker to accelerate quickly to open a gap. Failure to do so allows other rider(s) to just sit on the attacker's wheel and follow, without expending as much effort as the attacker.
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Old 07-14-20, 12:52 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Racers attack at different points in a race for a variety of reasons. Whether or not an early breakaway succeeds is a separate issue.

In all cases, it's imperative for an attacker to accelerate quickly to open a gap. Failure to do so allows other rider(s) to just sit on the attacker's wheel and follow, without expending as much effort as the attacker.
Reminds me of a ride last year when someone pitched up with a solid disc rear wheel. He is a triathlete, to be fair and a good one, but he assumed his disc was going to benefit him somehow on that ride. Anyway, when the fun started he couldn't break away from anyone but was easily dropped. If he had got away or was in a breakaway, he would have had a good chance of staying away but his wheel meant he had no acceleration to speak of and so we just sat on it or jumped clear. Naturally, this not being a race and we sat up from time to time, he always caught up with the rest but was unable to be much more than the chap who kept trying to pull back those who got away.
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Old 07-14-20, 01:11 AM
  #57  
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Love my "PLASTIC WHEELS"

I am in the "JUST BECAUSE CAMP" with my 8+ Sets of plastic wheels.. I have no idea if they make me any faster/better at all but nothing like the pleasure I get riding on them..


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Old 07-14-20, 06:12 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by trekmogul
I am in the "JUST BECAUSE CAMP" with my 8+ Sets of plastic wheels.. I have no idea if they make me any faster/better at all but nothing like the pleasure I get riding on them..


How do you do in crosswinds?
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Old 07-14-20, 06:29 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by upthywazzoo
How do you do in crosswinds?
I am quite sure with a 20MPH Crosswind that it would be a very tough ride..


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Old 07-14-20, 06:38 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by woodcraft
Makes sense. That's probably why tennis pros use the lightest racquets- so they something left at the end of a five set match.
Pro tennis players actually tend to use the heaviest racquets. The lightest racquets are geared towards beginner players.
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Old 07-14-20, 06:41 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by trekmogul
I am in the "JUST BECAUSE CAMP" with my 8+ Sets of plastic wheels.. I have no idea if they make me any faster/better at all but nothing like the pleasure I get riding on them..

"8+ sets of plastic wheels" but no bottle cages.

Must be some long, enjoyable rides.
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Old 07-14-20, 07:06 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval
"8+ sets of plastic wheels" but no bottle cages.

Must be some long, enjoyable rides.
I have more water bottle cages then you can shake a stick at. Just because you do not see one on my Sunday Morning Beater does not mean I don't own and use them. I am good anytime for 25 mile ride with no water or cage etc etc etc.... I just happen to not put one on this particular bike however I have more bikes with water bottle cages etc..I promise..



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Old 07-14-20, 07:35 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by trekmogul
I have more water bottle cages then you can shake a stick at. Just because you do not see one on my Sunday Morning Beater does not mean I don't own and use them. I am good anytime for 25 mile ride with no water or cage etc etc etc.... I just happen to not put one on this particular bike however I have more bikes with water bottle cages etc..I promise..
What are the bottle cage batteries for?
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Old 07-14-20, 07:46 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by trekmogul
I have more water bottle cages then you can shake a stick at.


Your antics are second-to-none.
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Old 07-14-20, 07:47 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by upthywazzoo
What are the bottle cage batteries for?
Powering the bike up to 20 mph.
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Old 07-14-20, 07:48 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval
Powering the bike up to 20 mph.
I should get me some of those.....
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Old 07-14-20, 07:51 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by upthywazzoo
What are the bottle cage batteries for?
Its for my 6000 Lumen Lupine Alpha Head Lamp..




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Old 07-14-20, 07:54 AM
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I've been trying to figure out how to power my gopro for an extended period of time and this has just given me an idea...
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Old 07-14-20, 07:58 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Hermes
I will give up my lightweight wheels when you can pry them from my cold dead hands.
Says the trackie where folks routinely go 40mph+ in sprints with 5 spoke front wheels that definitely weigh more than a svelte little climbing wheel.

Originally Posted by rubiksoval
"Unless you're accelerating."

So...yeah, I'll go with the light weight wheelsets. Thanks.
Didn't you say in a similar topic something along the lines of "if you have to accelerate that hard out of every corner in a crit you're in the wrong positions and will get dropped"............or was that topflightpro?

The pros protect their climbers to get to the climb the best they can. So the climber can probably ride something less aero and optimized for their task of going uphill quickly.

I'm not a pro climber. I would benefit by the much more constant savings of reasonably sized aero wheels.

However, if folks have the money......it literally is a "why not have both". With enough cash you can have both the optimal aero profile AND the super light wheel all-in-one.

The acceleration thing.........the un-aero and non-weight-optimized blob on top of the bike accounts for probably 1000x the acceleration cost in a "surge" when compared to a "light" wheel spinning up versus a "heavy old aero wheel".
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Old 07-14-20, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep
Didn't you say in a similar topic something along the lines of "if you have to accelerate that hard out of every corner in a crit you're in the wrong positions and will get dropped"...........
Of course not. I said something along the lines of "if you have to do a max sprint out of every corner of a decent level crit then you likely won't make it to the end."

Accelerations are unavoidable.
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Old 07-14-20, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep
The acceleration thing.........the un-aero and non-weight-optimized blob on top of the bike accounts for probably 1000x the acceleration cost in a "surge" when compared to a "light" wheel spinning up versus a "heavy old aero wheel".
You could apply that to nearly every single aspect of the bike.

It doesn't make sense for that, and it doesn't make sense in your post.
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Old 07-14-20, 08:10 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by upthywazzoo
I've been trying to figure out how to power my gopro for an extended period of time and this has just given me an idea...


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Old 07-14-20, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval
You could apply that to nearly every single aspect of the bike.

It doesn't make sense for that, and it doesn't make sense in your post.
I guess the debate needs bounds. Is it a budget constrained choice? A "pick one" kind of thing?

How about what I said about there being aero wheels expensive enough that they're also ultra light?

If it's a "pick one" kind of deal, like between a Zipp 303 versus a Zipp 404 for a crit.......I'd pick the 404 every time. Despite the fact that in reality it wouldn't matter much.

Being forced to choose.......I feel like the math still works out. The jump lasts like 5 to 15 seconds. The "hold" afterwards lasts much longer. So, the light wheel may save 5w over that 15 seconds for each "jump". The aero wheel will save the 5w over a much longer period of time.

I feel the time after the jump is just as important as the jump. No good to jump and peter out. No good to not make the jump good enough.
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Old 07-14-20, 08:21 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by colnago62
It isn’t about just creating a gap. You have to be able to make the gap stick. Watch a flat stage. The breakaway will be in the lead for half the race and then get passed with 1K to go. If the goal is a win, you need to be able to make it stick.
Whether or not a gap sticks in a flat tour stage like that has almost zero to do with the break's ability to make it stick and everything to do with the group simply letting them go.
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Old 07-14-20, 08:40 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval
Absolutely none of that has anything to do with my response to your post implying that it doesn't matter because of "the un-aero and non-weight-optimized blob on top of the bike."

I don't know what your sentences about "jumps" or "holds" has anything to do with. Sometimes you make up and use a lot of random terms.
Ok, I won't try to make it seem it doesn't matter due to the rider. Fine. The topic is about light wheels, not the rider. So the rider should be irrelevant here.

Now, the part about "jumps" and "holds". Just ask what people mean, or ask them to describe it instead of taking the high brow attitude like you're the bearer of all the "proper" cycling linguistics. Saying "you're just inventing terms" is a crappy way of saying "I don't understand what you said, can you explain". Then after the explanation saying "oh, you mean xyz, that's the proper term".

If you try to get away from a group people in a bike race, there's a period of time you put out a crap load of power to form a gap. Then, there's a much longer period of time where you're not accelerating.

time spent accelerating < time spent at constant velocity
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