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Courtesy on the bike paths....

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Courtesy on the bike paths....

Old 08-29-19, 09:54 AM
  #151  
sheddle
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Originally Posted by pakman3999 View Post
They really need to make more bike specific paths
I really wish the bike map in this city differentiated between protected bike lanes and MUPs, because I definitely prefer riding in the former. That said, you still have to pass safely in PBLs as well. Just not pedestrians (usually)
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Old 08-29-19, 10:01 AM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
No, you screwed it up. It should have been "loud ass-voice" or you should have mentioned smell. You're grading your own paper on a weak-ass curve.
Mentioning smell would have been necessary to make the joke understandable to children or people with weak English skills. Clever folks, like "marginal gains" don't need the extra cues.

Edit: yeah, I think I agree that it would have been better had I placed the hyphen after ass, but it wasn't wrong to not have a hyphen. Again, the problem isn't with the joke construction. It was a decent joke. You're grading the joke on too harsh a scale. It wasn't that bad, and it wasn't intended to be great in the first place. Low hanging fruit. I appreciate "weak-ass curve". That made me chuckle.

Last edited by Phamilton; 08-29-19 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 08-29-19, 10:30 AM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by Phamilton View Post
Mentioning smell would have been necessary to make the joke understandable to children or people with weak English skills. Clever folks, like "marginal gains" don't need the extra cues.

Edit: yeah, I think I agree that it would have been better had I placed the hyphen after ass, but it wasn't wrong to not have a hyphen. Again, the problem isn't with the joke construction. It was a decent joke. You're grading the joke on too harsh a scale. It wasn't that bad, and it wasn't intended to be great in the first place. Low hanging fruit. I appreciate "weak-ass curve". That made me chuckle.
Pro-tip: No one's reading your posts for subtle punctuation cues to discern fart jokes from poor observations. None of us are that interesting, especially people who think they're Hemingway.
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Old 08-29-19, 10:42 AM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Pro-tip: No one's reading your posts for subtle punctuation cues to discern fart jokes from poor observations. None of us are that interesting, especially people who think they're Hemingway.
That's not a pro tip or a secret. I'm here for my own amusement. If anybody else catches it, I'm flattered. You seem to be pretty interesting, anyway. Doesn't matter to me if nobody reads my posts. I'm not Hemingway this week. I don't even look at usernames most of the time, except for people I already know here. I remember yours now anyway. Cheers.
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Old 08-29-19, 11:02 AM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by Phamilton View Post
That's not a pro tip or a secret. I'm here for my own amusement. If anybody else catches it, I'm flattered. You seem to be pretty interesting, anyway. Doesn't matter to me if nobody reads my posts. I'm not Hemingway this week. I don't even look at usernames most of the time, except for people I already know here. I remember yours now anyway. Cheers.
If that's the case, just knock it off with the "you missed the joke" and "you're outclassed" kind of comments. Maybe you really don't realize you've done that to me four times now. If that's the case, you must be doing it to a lot of people, and it doesn't make you seem clever, just insecure.

You're actually a pretty good poster when it comes to substance, the friendly put-down banter just isn't in your wheelhouse.
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Old 08-29-19, 11:08 AM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
If that's the case, just knock it off with the "you missed the joke" and "you're outclassed" kind of comments. Maybe you really don't realize you've done that to me four times now. If that's the case, you must be doing it to a lot of people, and it doesn't make you seem clever, just insecure.

You're actually a pretty good poster when it comes to substance, the friendly put-down banter just isn't in your wheelhouse.
I don't instigate. I'm hardly ever on BF anymore. I only engage when people engage with me. I AM clever, and AM insecure. I'm a decent poster. Friendly put-down banter? Takes one to know one. Cheers. Hope to see you around here more often.
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Old 08-29-19, 11:14 AM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by Phamilton View Post
I AM clever,
Pro-tip: Never mind, too easy.
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Old 09-03-19, 11:27 AM
  #158  
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Passing on a path

Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I say "passing on your left". Putting the verb in seems to help. I think "On your left" is inherently confusing, and even "I'm on your left" would be better.
If one is riding in a bike marathon using "on your left" is well understood by all but I agree with livedarklions that adding a verb would help the less informed person.
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Old 09-03-19, 12:05 PM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by Oldbikeride View Post
If one is riding in a bike marathon using "on your left" is well understood by all but I agree with livedarklions that adding a verb would help the less informed person.
The more serious or dedicated riders who participate in cycling events understand, and "on your left" is fairly intuitive, but the verb conveys a complete thought, where as "on your left" could mean anything to the casual rider or pedestrian, causing the immediate thought, and confusion, of "What's on my left?"
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Old 09-03-19, 12:27 PM
  #160  
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Originally Posted by Lightning Pilot View Post
The more serious or dedicated riders who participate in cycling events understand, and "on your left" is fairly intuitive, but the verb conveys a complete thought, where as "on your left" could mean anything to the casual rider or pedestrian, causing the immediate thought, and confusion, of "What's on my left?"
For some reason, I think some people are interpreting "on your left" to be "go to your left" instead of "don't go left". My sense is that occurs because it isn't clear whether it's supposed to be an instruction to them or a statement of the passer's position, so they hear it as "go on your left".
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Old 09-03-19, 01:33 PM
  #161  
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You are assuming everyone knows their left from right or behave as such. In my neck-of-the-woods, American River Bike Trail, passing without announcing is generally safer. I tend to give notice if the person in front seem seasoned especially on a group ride (generally we just call out traffic for the safety of the group).
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Old 09-03-19, 03:01 PM
  #162  
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I’ve heard “passing on your left”. And that makes perfect sense, at least to me.
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Old 09-03-19, 03:56 PM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by kcjc View Post
You are assuming everyone knows their left from right or behave as such. In my neck-of-the-woods, American River Bike Trail, passing without announcing is generally safer. I tend to give notice if the person in front seem seasoned especially on a group ride (generally we just call out traffic for the safety of the group).
People with even slight ambidexterity tend to have varying degrees of trouble differentiating right from left. Not all of them get trained out of it as children. I can never agree that passing without an announcement is safer. If you announce your intent at a sufficient distance that their reaction, right or wrong, will not trouble you. A barely audible gasp of "passing on your left" when ten feet away, at 15 to 20 mph, is dangerous at all times to anyone not moving at close to your speed, and therefore dangerous to you. Even if you have the wind to raise your voice or shout, other factors apply.

Don't assume that anyone has normal hearing, especially in an urban or suburban environment. Even if they do, the ambient noise levels are significant, especially anywhere there is even moderate traffic. The trail I ride the most parallels a moderately busy two land road. Even when walking next to each other, two people walking have to raise their voices to be heard and understood. Consider also how much noise wind makes. On a calm day, at anything around 10 mph and up, the wind noise in your ears, and their ears, can drown out a normal or even elevated voice.

Another assumption one should never make is that if you can see their mirror(s) they have seen you.

Lots of cyclists seem to think that waiting until you are on top of someone to say anything is acceptable. It is not. The reason is the surprise factor and the startled jerk reaction—that's why you believe it's safer not to announce. However, the real problem is not giving them enough advance notice. At 15 mph, you are closing with them at 22 fps if they are stationary. That means you should announce your pass an absolute minimum of 44 feet away, though I think 66 would be better. If they are walking, your closure rate is then about 17.6 fps., meaning your announcement should be not less than 35 feet away. "Just do the math."

In a peloton or any group, a slightly elevated voice as your front wheel is about to begin the actual pass is fine. This is the only time not announcing your pass might be okay. Your closure rate is no more than a few feet per seconcd, and they are unlikely to be startled. I would announce anyway: not because I'm polite, but because it costs me nothing and may spare both parties a lot of pain and frustration—two things with which I am all too familiar.
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Old 09-03-19, 03:59 PM
  #164  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
For some reason, I think some people are interpreting "on your left" to be "go to your left" instead of "don't go left". My sense is that occurs because it isn't clear whether it's supposed to be an instruction to them or a statement of the passer's position, so they hear it as "go on your left".
Yes! Confusion always "wins." As difficult as human communication is, (perhaps the only scientifically verifiable miracle), it pays to be as clear as possible (unless you are a politician.)
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Old 09-03-19, 07:35 PM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by Lightning Pilot View Post
At 15 mph, you are closing with them at 22 fps if they are stationary. That means you should announce your pass an absolute minimum of 44 feet away, though I think 66 would be better. If they are walking, your closure rate is then about 17.6 fps., meaning your announcement should be not less than 35 feet away. "Just do the math."
That's some lungs. You recommendation is to announce your presence roughly 2-3 car length back and on a busy day that's a lot of yelling. A bit schizo?
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Old 09-03-19, 07:40 PM
  #166  
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Originally Posted by Lightning Pilot View Post
People with even slight ambidexterity tend to have varying degrees of trouble differentiating right from left. Not all of them get trained out of it as children. I can never agree that passing without an announcement is safer. If you announce your intent at a sufficient distance that their reaction, right or wrong, will not trouble you. A barely audible gasp of "passing on your left" when ten feet away, at 15 to 20 mph, is dangerous at all times to anyone not moving at close to your speed, and therefore dangerous to you. Even if you have the wind to raise your voice or shout, other factors apply.

Don't assume that anyone has normal hearing, especially in an urban or suburban environment. Even if they do, the ambient noise levels are significant, especially anywhere there is even moderate traffic. The trail I ride the most parallels a moderately busy two land road. Even when walking next to each other, two people walking have to raise their voices to be heard and understood. Consider also how much noise wind makes. On a calm day, at anything around 10 mph and up, the wind noise in your ears, and their ears, can drown out a normal or even elevated voice.

Another assumption one should never make is that if you can see their mirror(s) they have seen you.

Lots of cyclists seem to think that waiting until you are on top of someone to say anything is acceptable. It is not. The reason is the surprise factor and the startled jerk reaction—that's why you believe it's safer not to announce. However, the real problem is not giving them enough advance notice. At 15 mph, you are closing with them at 22 fps if they are stationary. That means you should announce your pass an absolute minimum of 44 feet away, though I think 66 would be better. If they are walking, your closure rate is then about 17.6 fps., meaning your announcement should be not less than 35 feet away. "Just do the math."

In a peloton or any group, a slightly elevated voice as your front wheel is about to begin the actual pass is fine. This is the only time not announcing your pass might be okay. Your closure rate is no more than a few feet per seconcd, and they are unlikely to be startled. I would announce anyway: not because I'm polite, but because it costs me nothing and may spare both parties a lot of pain and frustration—two things with which I am all too familiar.
Doesn't it really boil down to using a little common sense when passing on a bike path, depending on the circumstance?
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Old 09-03-19, 07:47 PM
  #167  
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Originally Posted by Oldbikeride View Post
Doesn't it really boil down to using a little common sense when passing on a bike path, depending on the circumstance?
Exactly. The problem is, common sense is an oxymoron. It is about as common as the proverbial hen teeth.
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Old 09-03-19, 07:55 PM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by kcjc View Post
That's some lungs. You recommendation is to announce your presence roughly 2-3 car length back and on a busy day that's a lot of yelling. A bit schizo?
Ignoring the ad hominum, if it's that crowded, you shouldn't be riding fast enough for it to matter. There is also this, for the weak or tired of lung: https://amazon.com/gp/product/B000AC...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Please try to remember that even on a dedicated bike path, riding isn't a right, it's a responsibility. You are moving faster than they, it is therefore your responsibility to warn them of your approach. If you can't deal with responsibility for your own actions, don't ride.
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Old 09-04-19, 07:37 AM
  #169  
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i usually ring my bell twice and as i get closer say "coming up behind you" I have found that to be less confusing and I scare less people unless they have their headphones in. Then all bets are off. I am usually prepared to ride in the grass off the side of the trail around people.
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Old 09-04-19, 08:41 AM
  #170  
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Originally Posted by Lightning Pilot View Post
"Just do the math."
Originally Posted by Lightning Pilot View Post
Ignoring the ad hominum
Kettle black

Originally Posted by Lightning Pilot View Post
if it's that crowded, you shouldn't be riding fast enough for it to matter. There is also this, for the weak or tired of lung: https://amazon.com/gp/product/B000AC...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
A fan favorite

Originally Posted by Lightning Pilot View Post
Please try to remember that even on a dedicated bike path, riding isn't a right, it's a responsibility. You are moving faster than they, it is therefore your responsibility to warn them of your approach. If you can't deal with responsibility for your own actions, don't ride.
You should step up and take full responsibility of everyone's actions. What BS. If you can't hold your wheel, don't ride.
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Old 09-04-19, 09:07 AM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by kcjc View Post
Kettle black

A fan favorite

You should step up and take full responsibility of everyone's actions. What BS. If you can't hold your wheel, don't ride.
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Old 09-04-19, 09:12 AM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by RidingMatthew View Post
i usually ring my bell twice and as i get closer say "coming up behind you" I have found that to be less confusing and I scare less people unless they have their headphones in. Then all bets are off. I am usually prepared to ride in the grass off the side of the trail around people.
The bell is enough to get their attention? I've never seen, or heard, a bell adequate for the purpose. That's why I got an air horn (linked previously). It works even if they are plugged in and tuned out.
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Old 09-04-19, 10:18 AM
  #173  
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Originally Posted by Lightning Pilot View Post
Ditto
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Old 09-04-19, 10:23 AM
  #174  
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Late to the party, but the OP demonstrates in his opening post why not announcing is appropriate when he says:

"...like if I turned my head at the moment of their passing, I might get hit by a shoulder".

There is no way for ones head to stick out past ones shoulder (let alone mtn bike bars) without veering, so if you announce and he looks,

it's a problem.
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Old 09-04-19, 01:16 PM
  #175  
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Originally Posted by woodcraft View Post
Late to the party, but the OP demonstrates in his opening post why not announcing is appropriate when he says:

"...like if I turned my head at the moment of their passing, I might get hit by a shoulder".

There is no way for ones head to stick out past ones shoulder (let alone mtn bike bars) without veering, so if you announce and he looks,

it's a problem.
Which is why I advocate announcing (voice) or warning (bell , horn) far enough in advance that it doesn't matter what the one (or few, or many) being passed does. I hate being surprised by someone passing, because if he or she is passing close, and I even twitch, we may collide. (On a P-38, if you think "turn left" or "turn right" you may be there before you get to the "t.")
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