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Brain is tired but when DST ends

Old 09-10-19, 12:10 PM
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Brain is tired but when DST ends

will it be dark at 0630 or more light at 0630? It was very dark at 0630 this week. I know fall back but does that mean that 0630 will be as dark as 0530 now or 0730? always confused by this.
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Old 09-10-19, 12:55 PM
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More light. 6:30 will be the new 7:30.
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Old 09-10-19, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by dmark View Post
More light. 6:30 will be the new 7:30.
Wrong
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Old 09-10-19, 02:04 PM
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See how messed up DST is? Nobody understands it.

Think. Standard time is what mother nature says it is. At fall and spring day, the Sun will set around 6pm.
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Old 09-10-19, 04:22 PM
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Dst should be abolished completely. It serves no useful purpose, and likely causes more traffic-related deaths each year when we all spring forward.
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Old 09-10-19, 05:01 PM
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During DST, everything happens at a later time. Sun rises later, sun sets later.
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Old 09-10-19, 05:51 PM
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Arizona sends its regards--no DST. (Except the Navajo Nation, which does use DST.)
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Old 09-10-19, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mcours2006 View Post
Dst should be abolished completely. It serves no useful purpose, and likely causes more traffic-related deaths each year when we all spring forward.
I will go farther and suggest that all time zones should be abolished. Everyone on GMT, worldwide, and set your local business/school/whatever hours to whatever works locally.
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Old 09-10-19, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
I will go farther and suggest that all time zones should be abolished. Everyone on GMT, worldwide, and set your local business/school/whatever hours to whatever works locally.
Isn't that a little... imperialist? Right now, there are far more people already on GMT+8 than any other time zone.
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Old 09-10-19, 06:26 PM
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I said this before and I will say it again...DST should be abolished because it serves absolutely no purpose in our modern world.
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Old 09-10-19, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Isn't that [GMT] a little... imperialist?
That's why the imperialist GMT has been changed to UTC (Universal Time Coordinated).

The time hasn't changed, just the name.
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Old 09-10-19, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
I said this before and I will say it again...DST should be abolished because it serves absolutely no purpose in our modern world.
Well....for people further away from the equator and living at the western limit of time zones....it keeps sunrise from being at 4AM. Which during high Summer is good for those of us nuts who like to get miles in before dawn in not-quite-so-insane-a-manner.

But yea. DST has far larger economic negatives than any potential gain it could have,
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Old 09-10-19, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Isn't that a little... imperialist? Right now, there are far more people already on GMT+8 than any other time zone.
My wife and I used to watch The Voice... she complained that the west coast couldn't vote. But there's just not enough people outside Eastern & Central to make a difference in the outcome. They're usually kind enough to keep from calling elections before the polls close, but with the red/blue state lockups we have right now we don't make an unexpected difference there either.
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Old 09-10-19, 08:16 PM
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Fall back, so dark-at-6 becomes dark-at-5. I seem to recall when they changed it from six-month to the present four and change, they put the start after Halloween so little kids wouldn't get run down in the dark.

I have this fantasy to wake up around the middle of twilight every morning but with the house seemingly revolving around my work schedule it's just never going to happen.

Here's a cool website, put in your zip code
https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/orangevale
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Old 09-11-19, 06:59 AM
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So i will have more daylight in the morning or evening? i think they should split the difference and then not change time at all. I know that would be confusing to explain but It might be perfect for me and my bike commuting schedule.

Thanks @darth_lefty that website is helpful I think. It says Sunrise and sunset will be about 1 hour earlier on Nov 3, 2019 than the day before. There will be more light in the morning. Which means dark rides home. I am thinking. It just seems weird to be September and it already seems very dark at 6:30am.
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Old 09-11-19, 08:21 AM
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Here's how I reason this out:
  • Daylight saving time (DST) is meant to provide more daylight during summer evenings.
  • You don't get something for nothing, so DST also means less daylight during early mornings.
  • Therefore, Standard time means more daylight during early mornings.
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Old 09-11-19, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by alan s View Post
Wrong
How is dmark wrong? We push the clock ahead one hour in the spring and pull it back one hour in the fall. On November 3, 2 a.m. becomes 1 a.m. For Denver, the sunrises on November 2 at 0729 by the clock. On November 3, the sunrises at 0630 by the clock. In other words, 0730 becomes the new 0630.
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Old 09-11-19, 09:10 AM
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  • Originally Posted by RidingMatthew View Post
    So i will have more daylight in the morning or evening? i think they should split the difference and then not change time at all. I know that would be confusing to explain but It might be perfect for me and my bike commuting schedule.
Originally Posted by RidingMatthew View Post
Thanks @darth_lefty that website is helpful I think. It says Sunrise and sunset will be about 1 hour earlier on Nov 3, 2019 than the day before. There will be more light in the morning. Which means dark rides home. I am thinking. It just seems weird to be September and it already seems very dark at 6:30am.
Yes, you will have more daylight in the morning and less in the evening. You can get the sunset and sunrise for any place on the planet through the US Naval Observatory.
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Old 09-11-19, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
I said this before and I will say it again...DST should be abolished because it serves absolutely no purpose in our modern world.
Ah but it does. Golf courses make more money which is why Woodrow Wilson vetoed its repeal twice after WWI (he also like to play the game). The extension of DST in 1986 was pushed by the Clorox Corporation because it owned Kingsford Charcoal. More sun, more barbecuing.

The extension in 2005 was pushed by the US Chamber of Commerce and M&M Mars. The Chamber wanted it because more people shop when the sun is up and M&M Mars (as well as other candy makers) wanted it because an extra hour of light at Halloween means more kids and more candy.

And there is always the “energy savings” which never seem to materialize.
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Old 09-11-19, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Ah but it does. Golf courses make more money which is why Woodrow Wilson vetoed its repeal twice after WWI (he also like to play the game). The extension of DST in 1986 was pushed by the Clorox Corporation because it owned Kingsford Charcoal. More sun, more barbecuing.

The extension in 2005 was pushed by the US Chamber of Commerce and M&M Mars. The Chamber wanted it because more people shop when the sun is up and M&M Mars (as well as other candy makers) wanted it because an extra hour of light at Halloween means more kids and more candy.

And there is always the “energy savings” which never seem to materialize.
On the flip side...there's the hundreds of billions of USD in lost productivity that comes along with the inability to keep appointments across timezones and lost sleep especially given international markets...every year over a month the entire world gradually changes clocks on cascading schedules and even our computers have issues keeping them straight.

Which in the days of telegraphs and letters wasn't a thing....but with international conference calls and video chat is a thing.
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Old 09-11-19, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
How is dmark wrong? We push the clock ahead one hour in the spring and pull it back one hour in the fall. On November 3, 2 a.m. becomes 1 a.m. For Denver, the sunrises on November 2 at 0729 by the clock. On November 3, the sunrises at 0630 by the clock. In other words, 0730 becomes the new 0630.
Did not say am or pm. Assumed pm, but must have meant am. Looking back at the OP, 0630 was the question, but dmark said 6:30. Anyway, I don’t commute early enough for it to be dark in the morning, but the evening commute goes from bad to worse overnight.
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Old 09-11-19, 10:32 AM
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For many, summer days are longer than winter days. It's not just the shift from DST to ST.

Originally Posted by RidingMatthew View Post
i think they should split the difference and then not change time at all. I know that would be confusing to explain but It might be perfect for me and my bike commuting schedule.
Same here. I've proposed for years (to my minions) the idea of getting rid of DST and ST to have a new plan called "Split the Difference".

This Fall, if we would simply roll back our clocks by 30 minutes and leave time there . . . forever.

Or, if we can't implement it in the fall, move our clocks forward by 30 minutes in the Spring for the same difference of Splitting the Difference.

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Old 09-11-19, 10:53 AM
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My touchstone fact for time changes is: in the Fall I get to sleep in.

While I'm sleeping 'later', the sun has an extra hour to get on up, so it's lighter in the morning (until the winter-shortened days' later sunrises catch up)

But also, getting to work an hour later means leaving work an hour later, so it's more likely I'll be riding home in the dark.
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Old 09-11-19, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by alan s View Post
Did not say am or pm. Assumed pm, but must have meant am. Looking back at the OP, 0630 was the question, but dmark said 6:30. Anyway, I don’t commute early enough for it to be dark in the morning, but the evening commute goes from bad to worse overnight.
Anyone who uses the 0 in front and omits the colon, but means PM, is an idiot. Don't write a time in 24-hour format if you don't know how to use it!
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Old 09-11-19, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Anyone who uses the 0 in front and omits the colon, but means PM, is an idiot. Don't write a time in 24-hour format if you don't know how to use it!
Anyone who can’t figure out DST is an idiot. Apparently, there are quite a few here.
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