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Going out to eat with bad tippers

Old 03-24-11, 08:03 AM
  #26  
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I thought Tipping was a city in China or something you did to cows, or maybe both. Maybe Tipping is a Chinese town full of sleeping cattle.
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Originally Posted by colorider View Post
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Old 03-24-11, 08:12 AM
  #27  
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15-20% here.

The only time I tip less is if the food comes out cold (and it's not supposed to be cold). That's my third rail in a restaurant.

Few things rankle me more than seeing a plate of something sitting on a counter for 15 minutes and then the waiter/tress brings it over to me. I don't mind a long wait, as long as it is served hot. I could go on about a couple of my reactions, but I won't.
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Old 03-24-11, 08:16 AM
  #28  
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There are clearly some people in this thread that are incapable of respecting a different cultures way of doing things. In the U.S. the unwritten rule of tipping is an incentive for the wait staff to provide exceptional service, kind of like a commission if you will. If you provide exceptional service you get a good tip, if you provide bad service, less or no tip. It ultimately weeds out the bad service as they aren't making any money. I've never worked in a restaurant where I had to share tips with other waitstaff, only hosts, bar, etc... and I think doing that negates the whole individual incentive to do good work.

When I'm in another country where the culture doesn't tip, I don't, as this is already factored into the meal cost. But don't go around bashing our culture for doing so when it's a system that works for us.

Last edited by crackerjab; 03-24-11 at 08:28 AM.
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Old 03-24-11, 08:18 AM
  #29  
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I worked with people like that, I stopped going out to lunch with them. It disgusts me to see people rip off a server, I don't want to be lumped in with that kind of crowd. Ask them if they drive-off at the gas station too....
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Old 03-24-11, 08:21 AM
  #30  
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[QUOTE=skijor;12403847]Yeah, Canada came to mind. But there are some exceptions (Ontario, Quebec, et al)....[QUOTE]

So what should I tip in the GTA? I'm a 20%'er in the US but if it's less in ON I need to adjust.
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Old 03-24-11, 08:22 AM
  #31  
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Oh yeah, in response to the OP. Apologize to the server on behalf of your colleagues not tipping, while they are still at the table. I've done this before and it might be kind of a dick move, but it's quite effective.
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Old 03-24-11, 08:29 AM
  #32  
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The problem with not tipping when you get bad service is the server probably just thinks you're cheap and complains to her colleagues about you rather than learning something from it. Maybe if enough people don't tip her she'll quit, but if she's bad speaking to the manager(as a nonconfrontationalist, this is really difficult for me) is really the way to deal with that situation.
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Old 03-24-11, 08:47 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by crackerjab View Post
Oh yeah, in response to the OP. Apologize to the server on behalf of your colleagues not tipping, while they are still at the table. I've done this before and it might be kind of a dick move, but it's quite effective, as they will never again invite you to go out and with them and you can tip however much you want as you eat alone each day.
ellucidated it for you.
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Originally Posted by colorider View Post
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Old 03-24-11, 08:47 AM
  #34  
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So you guys that don't leave tips don't eat at the same place more than once?
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Old 03-24-11, 08:50 AM
  #35  
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Also the reason that the tips are split is that a server cannot provide great service without them.
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Old 03-24-11, 08:54 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Chris L View Post
...If you have a problem with people in your country paying taxes on tips they may or may not receive, I suggest you take it up with your local member of congress....
This is the kind of person that loves to lecture Americans about the cultural insenstivity of Americans. I have to teach my Euro collegues about tipping, I thought Aussies were better than this. Sheesh, when I travel to other countries I try to fit in....
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Old 03-24-11, 09:06 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
This is the kind of person that loves to lecture Americans about the cultural insenstivity of Americans. I have to teach my Euro collegues about tipping, I thought Aussies were better than this. Sheesh, when I travel to other countries I try to fit in....
Eh, when I travel, I still tip. I figure I'm doing my little part to not perpetuate the fat, ugly, rude american stereotype.
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Old 03-24-11, 09:07 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by longbeachgary View Post
So you guys that don't leave tips don't eat at the same place more than once?
Yeah, that's my thing. I mean I doubt people will really spit in my food, but I don't want to upset the waitstaff if I ever plan on going back. I once accidentally stiffed a pizza guy on tip and now when I order from that place I make it a point to tip well (and their guys do give me good service when they deliver).
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Old 03-24-11, 09:10 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by apclassic9 View Post
Separate checks would solve the problem, but if that's not possible, and your HAVE to show up at the lunch table, put YOUR tip under YOUR plate. While your lunch-mates might be cheap, at least the waitstaff will know that at least ONE person at the table understands the system!
I do sort of like this idea. That way it's not that on average we're cheap, just some people in the group are especially cheap. On the other hand, then I'm throwing less into the shared pot and not leading by example.
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Old 03-24-11, 09:54 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by jsharr View Post
I thought Tipping was a city in China or something you did to cows, or maybe both. Maybe Tipping is a Chinese town full of sleeping cattle.
You're thinking of T'Ping (T'Pau's cousin)
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Old 03-24-11, 10:01 AM
  #41  
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Let me explain how the front of the house works. Then I will answer the OP's question.

We will use a Denny's or IHOP for an example.

A restaurant's job is to make money. The only way to make money is put butts in seats, repeatedly. This means "turning over" the house as fast and as many times as you can.

Typically a 200 hundred seat restaurant on a Friday or Saturday should turn over two maybe three times.

Let's assume that our waitress Madge has a section of 20 seats or 5 four tops. She tips here bussers well and her hostess well. So she gets the "pick" of the customers from the hostess and a quick turn over from the busser so that she can get another set of butts in the seat. This costs money. She pays well she gets taken care of.

Now let us add Mary to the picture. Mary has a similar section of seats, but does not take as good of care of the hostess and busser. The result is that Mary's tables will get bussed slower or last leaving her with fewer butts in seats. The hostess will also seat people that the hostess knows will not tip well or are problem people because she can. This means that if Mary wants to turn tables faster she may have to bus her own table as well as take care of the other tables. She now has to work twice as hard at the table to make the same or less money.

Also please do not forget that Mary and Madge also have other duties that must be completed prior to and during the shift. Silverware rolls, restocking dishes, premade salads, coffee making, making backups of sauces (ketchup and the like).

So think twice when tipping.

To the OP. Grab the check and add 20% or more to each person's order, add 30% to bar orders. Let us assume that 10 people go out for lunch. Most places automatically add 15% for tip after 6 people. Let us assume further that they all order a $12 lunch. 12*10= $120 - 120*.15= $18. $18 minimum tip off the top. This tip is ignored because it takes a tremendous amount of time and space for a 10 top. This means that the waitress is losing money on her other tables.

On a $12 sit down lunch I'll go 30%-50% tip because I think tipping 20% is ridiculous at this price. Let us agree on 30% which is $3.60. $3.60*10 people= $36+$18= $54 tip. That is a decent tip for a ten top considering the amount of time that the waitress is spending and the money she is losing by not being able to service other tables in her section. Yes the FOH manager will take tables away during this time so that she can focus on the table and give them to other waitstaff. The tables are returned after the 10 top leaves and the other tables turn over.

Be a "check Nazi" and if people refuse to cough up at least you can say "no lunch for you" next time and they have embarrassed themselves in front of other coworkers.
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Old 03-24-11, 11:18 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Snicklefritz View Post
At the average restaurant, are most waitstaff paid a low wage assuming that they will make it up in tips?
In the U.S. there are exceptions to the minimum wage laws that allow Waitstaff to be paid below minimum wage. In many places they are. Heck in very many very nice oplaces they are. (But in nice places a bill for a table of 2 runs over $100 so a 10% tip ends up being a fair amount of money).
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Old 03-24-11, 12:25 PM
  #43  
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At the nice places around here, good waitresses can pull in over $500 a night in tips (on weekends).

I'm at odds with tipping. On one hand, I think they should be paid well enough that tips aren't needed to make a living. Then again, I think everyone should live on 100% tips/commissions that is tied to performance.
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Old 03-24-11, 12:27 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by himespau View Post
Yeah, that's my thing. I mean I doubt people will really spit in my food, but I don't want to upset the waitstaff if I ever plan on going back.
Not only that, if you return to a place and the same waitress has your table how much effort is she going to put into giving great service to lousy tippers? add to that when the guests at the next table always give a decent tip? The other table is going to get hot food where you guys are going to get colder food.

I have never been a server but all four of my daughters have.
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Old 03-24-11, 12:35 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
At the nice places around here, good waitresses can pull in over $500 a night in tips (on weekends).
We're not talking at certain "gentlemen's" establishments are we?

Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
I'm at odds with tipping. On one hand, I think they should be paid well enough that tips aren't needed to make a living. Then again, I think everyone should live on 100% tips/commissions that is tied to performance.
Yeah, I wish we could go back to the stage when a tip was a very nice surprise rewarding above and beyond service and wasn't expected, but I don't see that happening.

I think I might have an out with the cheap tippers at my work as the worst offender (and the one who's really loud about how much people should pay - including little/no tip) is leaving next week, so once we've done her goodbye lunch, hopefully the system will improve. I've had informal conversations with 2 of my other coworkers today ("so someone else I was talking to elsewhere brought up that different countries are different, how much do they tip in your country?") so that at the very least those two were aware that we tip here (both thought in the 10-15% range and thought 20% was very generous, but at least knowing that waitstaff are taxed as if they get that 15% is a start).
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Old 03-24-11, 12:48 PM
  #46  
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Old 03-24-11, 02:02 PM
  #47  
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Remember, a rule in dating is to observe how your date treat service staff like waiters and waitresses, and tipping accordingly (not exaggerated) is part of it.

I usually tip btw 15% - 20% for lunch, 20% or more dinner depends on service. And 10% for carry out. I factor that in as the cost of eating out. I kind like reverse of Chris_L, he wants the advertised price, I factor that in as price ahead of time.

OP, one solution is to suggest the group to go to restaurant that includes 18% automatic tipping for groups that are 8 or more.
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Old 03-24-11, 04:19 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by himespau View Post
Eh, when I travel, I still tip. I figure I'm doing my little part to not perpetuate the fat, ugly, rude american stereotype.
Traveling is actually hard. We Americans are so used to the tipping model that we feel uncomfortable not tipping when we travel abroad (at least I do) even though we know the salary structure and "tipping norm" is far different. The trouble is that if you tip anyway, you don't really correct the stereotype mentioned above. The staff just assumes that Americans are (fat, ugly, rude) and so over-privileged, insensitive (and just stupid) they just can't help throwing money around thereby demeaning the recipient.

I was shocked years ago when a Brit I was traveling with explained this to me. Sometime you just can't win.
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Old 03-24-11, 05:02 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Chris L View Post
Again, read the thread. Most of the money from tips never reaches the waiter or waitress. A friend of mine once applied for a job in a restaurant where he was told he would be expected to pass on 100% of any tips he received to management, although I suspect he would have just pocketed the cash tips (assuming he received any) because nobody could ever trace it. As I've already explained, it's far from customary throughout most of the world, in fact, I've been to countries where people would get quite agitated if you tried to leave a tip. Here in Australia the majority of people never tip (and nor should they).
lol, wut? We're talking about tipping in America. The fact that you keep using other countries as an example of why you shouldn't tip HERE is so weak. This isn't Germany, or Australia. Tips are not only welcome but understood to be part of a check. Why are you arguing this fundamental? Tips in America are implied. They make $2/hr + tips. If you REALLY believe staff here don't see most of their tips you are ignorant to the way it works in America.

I'm not "reasoning" myself out of anything. You clearly haven't read the thread, or even my previous post. I have already said I have no problem with the advertised price including a gratuity. At least then I know the meal is going to cost me $22, and I can then make a decision as to whether the meal is worth $22 (whether or not it includes a gratuity).
Lol.. so you can make an 'informed decision'? You're being ridiculous. In America, if you receive satisfactory service and don't tip you will be though of as an ass. It's THAT simple. Any other 'excuse' for not tipping here is just a shroud for being inconsiderate and... stingy? I seriously doubt a $2 difference in meal price is going to make or break your experience. But it's guaranteed to break a server's experience.
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Old 03-24-11, 05:15 PM
  #50  
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if i know im going to be stuck in that sorta situation i ask for separate check or i'll just straight up say you owe tax and tip too!
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