How do I fix this?
01-12-19, 09:09 PM
#1
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How do I fix this?
The shifter boss on my 83 Cannondale is pulling away from the frame. It appears to be riveted on. Do you think a decent LBS could fix it?
01-12-19, 10:43 PM
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Hmmm. it might be fastened like a Rivnut, or maybe even a rivut is buried in there....
at some point in the past, someone was marketing what was essentially a through bolt affair, so both bosses were tied together. Maybe for Klein?
The more I think about how the typical rivuts are dimensioned... not sure it would work.
One would have to reference a McMaster Carr or Grainger catalog... metric rivuts are around, just not that common in the USA.
at some point in the past, someone was marketing what was essentially a through bolt affair, so both bosses were tied together. Maybe for Klein?
The more I think about how the typical rivuts are dimensioned... not sure it would work.
One would have to reference a McMaster Carr or Grainger catalog... metric rivuts are around, just not that common in the USA.
01-12-19, 11:12 PM
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Here is a photo of each side
01-13-19, 08:44 AM
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Must say that I've never seen a riveted Cannondale shifter mount before, and I've worked on dozens of the AA/BB/CC frames. My guess is that this one is VERY early.
I think I'd be tempted to replace that with an entire McMaster Carr setup. Looks like only one side is loose, but the whole notion of riveting on that bit seems like poor engineering. The later frames did a much better job of it.
I think I'd be tempted to replace that with an entire McMaster Carr setup. Looks like only one side is loose, but the whole notion of riveting on that bit seems like poor engineering. The later frames did a much better job of it.
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01-13-19, 09:25 AM
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I have a bad feeling about this.
How loose are they?
I'm thinking the best thing to do is to choose the least destructive option, whatever that is. Do you think you could work some epoxy into the crack? Ideally enough to completely fill any space between the frame and the shifter bosses. And then use the bosses for cable stops, not shifters, to minimize wear and tear.
How loose are they?
I'm thinking the best thing to do is to choose the least destructive option, whatever that is. Do you think you could work some epoxy into the crack? Ideally enough to completely fill any space between the frame and the shifter bosses. And then use the bosses for cable stops, not shifters, to minimize wear and tear.
01-13-19, 09:39 AM
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early Cannondale = crack n fail.
True, all too often.
Your example is a classic.
any fix is a kludge, imho.
True, all too often.
Your example is a classic.
any fix is a kludge, imho.
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01-13-19, 12:47 PM
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01-13-19, 01:07 PM
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I have a bad feeling about this.
How loose are they?
I'm thinking the best thing to do is to choose the least destructive option, whatever that is. Do you think you could work some epoxy into the crack? Ideally enough to completely fill any space between the frame and the shifter bosses. And then use the bosses for cable stops, not shifters, to minimize wear and tear.
How loose are they?
I'm thinking the best thing to do is to choose the least destructive option, whatever that is. Do you think you could work some epoxy into the crack? Ideally enough to completely fill any space between the frame and the shifter bosses. And then use the bosses for cable stops, not shifters, to minimize wear and tear.
01-13-19, 01:09 PM
#12
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Must say that I've never seen a riveted Cannondale shifter mount before, and I've worked on dozens of the AA/BB/CC frames. My guess is that this one is VERY early.
I think I'd be tempted to replace that with an entire McMaster Carr setup. Looks like only one side is loose, but the whole notion of riveting on that bit seems like poor engineering. The later frames did a much better job of it.
I think I'd be tempted to replace that with an entire McMaster Carr setup. Looks like only one side is loose, but the whole notion of riveting on that bit seems like poor engineering. The later frames did a much better job of it.
01-13-19, 01:14 PM
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I'd have absolutely no issue with drilling out the pop rivet & reinstalling another. There wouldn't be any problem making sure a bit of JB Weld makes it's way into the space between the shifter boss & the frame on reinstall either.
I'd make sure I'd have the appropriate pop rivet in hand before starting though. sometimes sometimes tiny hardware can be hard to find.
I'd make sure I'd have the appropriate pop rivet in hand before starting though. sometimes sometimes tiny hardware can be hard to find.
01-13-19, 01:37 PM
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@mkeller234 NOVA Lever Boss Kit is probably the best repair solution. Works on up to 50mm tubes. OE setup from the Technium series Raleighs.
If you want to stay completely as original, you could drill out the broken rivet and install a new one. I'd be wary of just installing an other blind rivet in to a hole where I already had one fail, without really thorough inspection though
If you want to stay completely as original, you could drill out the broken rivet and install a new one. I'd be wary of just installing an other blind rivet in to a hole where I already had one fail, without really thorough inspection though
01-13-19, 01:45 PM
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@mkeller234 NOVA Lever Boss Kit is probably the best repair solution. Works on up to 50mm tubes. OE setup from the Technium series Raleighs.
If you want to stay completely as original, you could drill out the broken rivet and install a new one. I'd be wary of just installing an other blind rivet in to a hole where I already had one fail, without really thorough inspection though
If you want to stay completely as original, you could drill out the broken rivet and install a new one. I'd be wary of just installing an other blind rivet in to a hole where I already had one fail, without really thorough inspection though
01-13-19, 02:27 PM
#16
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I have a bad feeling about this.
How loose are they?
I'm thinking the best thing to do is to choose the least destructive option, whatever that is. Do you think you could work some epoxy into the crack? Ideally enough to completely fill any space between the frame and the shifter bosses. And then use the bosses for cable stops, not shifters, to minimize wear and tear.
How loose are they?
I'm thinking the best thing to do is to choose the least destructive option, whatever that is. Do you think you could work some epoxy into the crack? Ideally enough to completely fill any space between the frame and the shifter bosses. And then use the bosses for cable stops, not shifters, to minimize wear and tear.
I have often used your technic to make stickers with packaging. I love showing that one to others.
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01-13-19, 02:44 PM
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Nova Cycles has a fix it kit , I put one on my Nishiki .
https://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle...-AL-FRAME.html
https://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle...-AL-FRAME.html
01-13-19, 03:16 PM
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^This is what i would d. Try and get some JB Weld or epoxy into it, then clamp it tight and see if that holds it after it hardens. Normally I don't believe epoxy would be strong enough for this application, but since the boss is still somewhat attached it might work. Or as also mentioned, it could become a cable stop after the repair if it didn't look like using shifters there would work anymore.
01-13-19, 04:59 PM
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Early carbon Trek OCLV was said to ride like 'wood' or 'dead road feel' = true
Early Ti tubing was described as whippy = true
Early Cannondales were described Crack n Fail = ???? stuff happens.
There were steel frame failures, too.
Cannondale obviously fixed any problems. An industry survivor.
I pose a question to mkellar = Would you advise a fellow cyclist with a 1983 Al framed bike with 2 potentially questionable holes in the downtube to ride that bike without concern? I missed the part about the frame's history. To err is human, to err on the side of stupidity is Darwinian Award territory.
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01-13-19, 06:14 PM
#21
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@Wildwood, I hope I didn’t cause hard feelings. It was not my intention. I was thinking of a thread recently where someone questioned the reputation of the viscount death fork. That question was met very quickly with examples of why it is called a death fork.
I agree, my frame has some issues and caution is advisable. I understand that wisdom and age don’t always walk in step with each other, but at 35, rental car companies do let me sign for myself now 😄. I do honestly want to hear some stories about these frames.
The specific bike that I own does not seem to have many miles on it. The components are in great condition... including the OEM tires. The bar tape was original as well, although it was tattered. I couldn’t find evidence of damage or abuse as I rebuilt it. The brake lever had some scuffs, so I assume it’s been at least mildly ceashed. I’m not going to put fenders on this one, because I don’t plan on riding this bike it bad weather. I believe it’s going to have a fairly cushy life being 1 of 7 bicycles.
I appreciate all of the suggestions that I have recieved. I’m not really sure how I want to move forward yet. I’m tempted to drill both rivets so that I can inspect what is going on. I’m afraid that if I do that, there is no going back though. That is why JB weld is tempting. I think the JB weld fix might bother me later down the road. Either way, I do think I’m going to take it to the LBS too. There is a shop owner here that I really trust with old bicycles.
I agree, my frame has some issues and caution is advisable. I understand that wisdom and age don’t always walk in step with each other, but at 35, rental car companies do let me sign for myself now 😄. I do honestly want to hear some stories about these frames.
The specific bike that I own does not seem to have many miles on it. The components are in great condition... including the OEM tires. The bar tape was original as well, although it was tattered. I couldn’t find evidence of damage or abuse as I rebuilt it. The brake lever had some scuffs, so I assume it’s been at least mildly ceashed. I’m not going to put fenders on this one, because I don’t plan on riding this bike it bad weather. I believe it’s going to have a fairly cushy life being 1 of 7 bicycles.
I appreciate all of the suggestions that I have recieved. I’m not really sure how I want to move forward yet. I’m tempted to drill both rivets so that I can inspect what is going on. I’m afraid that if I do that, there is no going back though. That is why JB weld is tempting. I think the JB weld fix might bother me later down the road. Either way, I do think I’m going to take it to the LBS too. There is a shop owner here that I really trust with old bicycles.
Last edited by mkeller234; 01-13-19 at 06:21 PM.
01-13-19, 07:09 PM
#22
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I'd probably drill both rivets, apply JB Weld (the long cure stuff), and install new rivets, mostly as clamps for the glue. Should have been done that way originally IMO. Then go to cable stops and used brifters or bar ends if you want to be period correct. Removing the rivets gives you an opportunity to do some surface prep. I know JB Weld is perceived as redneck repair, but it's good stuff, and IIRC is roughly comparable in specs to the 3M epoxy they used to glue together Vitus frames BITD. At any rate the bosses should be stronger than they were -- which may not be saying that much I guess.
If you want to continue to use the DT shifters, the Nova kit looks like a good set up, and it's inexpensive. Also requires epoxy.
Wasn't 83 the first year for these? They were still working out some bugs. I thought they were a great bang for the buck at the time. Used to sell them at the LBS I worked at.
If you want to continue to use the DT shifters, the Nova kit looks like a good set up, and it's inexpensive. Also requires epoxy.
Wasn't 83 the first year for these? They were still working out some bugs. I thought they were a great bang for the buck at the time. Used to sell them at the LBS I worked at.
01-13-19, 09:04 PM
#23
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Does anyone know who operates the vintage Cannondale website? I just sent an email to them. I’m betting they belong here.
01-13-19, 10:38 PM
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Those Rivets are very small,smaller than the usual stuff you buy at a hardware store. The issue is getting a rivet gun that can fit those smaller rivets.The "normal" sizes start at 1/8 which those are not so first you need to get the correct size and a gun to accommodate the correct size. If you wanted to do it right, you'd better remove the entire boss, use some JB weld or similar adhesive and re-Rivet both shifter bosses since you got it in front of you.
Once you get the correct size rivets and gun you should have no problem repairing it.Its an easy fix.
Once you get the correct size rivets and gun you should have no problem repairing it.Its an easy fix.
01-13-19, 11:04 PM
#25
Blamester
The rivets probably worked free over time,
But i personally would want to look in to make sure they hadn't corroded out, Disimilar metals etc
Has the frame a hole thru the down tube,
I had a similar issue and i cleaned the threads on one side and used a long bolt thru to the other boss.
Works like a charm
But i personally would want to look in to make sure they hadn't corroded out, Disimilar metals etc
Has the frame a hole thru the down tube,
I had a similar issue and i cleaned the threads on one side and used a long bolt thru to the other boss.
Works like a charm