chagzuki

Wow. They responded quickly. See what a ridiculous thread that was locked but wasn't can achieve. Let's try this again with another request.

With a gear range of 242% I wonder what the individual ratios are.

Still Pedaling

Ah come on -- it wasn't that ridiculous was it?

dynaryder

Nope. They did say they had also done things to lighten the bike,but in the first sentence they def said the 6spd setup is lighter than the 5spd.

I do remember reading somewhere about the weight savings,so combined with the response from Brompton that pretty much clinches it. If you disagree,fine,but you're arguing with Brompton,not me. I consider the company who makes the bikes to be the final word.

chagzuki

As I qualified, they're referring to the 5 speed hub that was used on Brompton bikes prior to Sturmey Archer going bankrupt, so yes, the BWR 6 speed would be lighter than that. But the new SA five speeds are lighter than BWR 6 speed setup by approximately 60g.

Look here:
https://www.sturmey-archer.com/userfi...99-English.pdf
The Sprinter 5 speed is listed as 1.2kg. The BWR hub plus extras would come to 1120g, so it's significantly lighter (80g). But current 5 speed hubs are 1060g, so they're somewhat lighter than the BWR.
This means that a 10 speed setup based on a S-RF5 would be 120g heavier than a 6 speed. 1240g for 10 speeds is pretty good, I think.

There's a massive difference in weight with any other multi-speed hub option I can think of, i.e. a X-RF8 is a whopping 1770g, 650g heavier than a BWR 6 speed setup. Alfines are actually heavier than I'd previously thought, again adding a chunk of weight.

tcs

BTW - Shimano has a new 5-speed hub out, the SG-5R35. It's...different. The total range is just 206%. It's kind of like a upscale three speed with gears 1, 2, 2a, 3 and 3a. Like the Nexus 7 and Alfine 11, there is no direct drive gear, just a near unity ratio achieved by gearing down and then back up. Inside the dropouts, rotary gear select.

chagzuki

Yeah, looks interesting. I wonder whether roller clutch stuff can compensate for the lack of direct drive... if not then it's kinda pointless.

Btw, officialdom states that BSR and BWR hubs are both 950g, excluding nuts & fittings.

BassNotBass

My Brommie has the BSR 3-speed and I really enjoy riding the bike. But then again I seem to have also gotten by riding FGs and SSs for most of my life.

fietsbob

Fot those that missed page 1 post 4 ..
BSR is the NIG version of an AW3.. 3/4 & 4/3 of the Middle ratio, of cog and chainring.

rec

Hope it's alright to revive this old, but interesting, thread.

Anyone know if Brompton still specing the BSR for 2017 3s and BWR for 6s?

rsanchezsaez

rec, funny that you revived the thread, I was just reading it.

I'm considering getting a Brompton (my first foldable, and first bike really), and I'm trying to decide between 3 and 6 gears. I'm leaning due to the 3-gear due to simplicity and easier maintenance, but I live in a hilly area so I have doubts.

I understand how the internal 3-gear one works. Could you explain in newbie terms how the 6-gear one works? Are there 3-gears in the back wheel and 2 additional gears elsewhere? If somebody can post detailed pictures of the 6 gears that would be much appreciated, I'm curious about how they look.

Cheers!

badmother

Reading trough this old thread I can`t help thinking there is a lot of apples and oranges being siscussed..

On asking Brompton if the 5 speed or the 6 speed bike is the heavyest we must expect they compare the 6 speed bikes to the bikes with the old steel shell two cable 5 speed hubs. This is the hub my 5 speed B came with. There is no doubt that the new 5 speed alu shell wide range one cable hub I now use on my bike is much lighter than the old 5 speed. Has the six speed bikes always used alu shells or is there an old version steel shell 6 speed option?

The six speed has got one extra cable and a shifter compared to the 6 speed. Also there is some extra metal included in the shifting process (pivioting) at the back. My bike came without the braze on for the derillium needed for the 6 speed so saved a few g there too.


"Anyone know if Brompton still specing the BSR for 2017 3s and BWR for 6s?"
I would expect so.

rsanchezsaez

Do both cables go into the same internal hub?

rec

rsanchezsaez- I'm in the same boat as you, trying to pick between the 3s and 6s.

I borrowed a 3s bromp way back in 2000, really liked it and i haven't inspected a 6s BWR bromp since then but I think the way the 6s system works is that the right handlebar shifter controls the internals of the 3s IGH while the left shifter controls a rear derailleur to shift between two cogs on the IGH.

Prior to finding and reading this thread, I thought that the 3s and 6s Bromps used the same custom SA 3s BWR hub. The only diff between them, besides a derailleur and second shifter, I thought, was that the 6s had two cogs on the mini cassette body instead of only one. So, I was also leaning towards a 3s and thought that it wouldn't be much a problem to make it into a 6s if I found the 3s lacking. I don't shift my derailleur equipped bikes very much; I'm more of a low rpm, hi gear masher than a spinner even though I live in a sorta hilly area, too. Shift only between my cruising 16t cog, low 32t cog and sometimes use the 12t if getting a tailwind. So I think I would like the BWR. If most of the info in this thread is correct, it will now be an easy decision to select the 6s over the 3s to get the wider range that the BWR offers.

tcs

Buried on the Brompton web site:

brompton gears.jpg

Which of course posted here far too small to read. Try this.

badmother

If you are asking about the old 5 speed hub the answer is "yes". Same way as the 3 speed hub but one on each side of the hub trough the center of the axel. This made it a pain to travel with IMHO becouse the one side was protected innside the fold but the other side was sticking out like a sore elbow. When flying with the bike (or bagging it and transporting it by bus or similar) I remowed the toggle chain on one side to avoid it being crushed and then had to re install and re adjust the chain and cable each time.

rsanchezsaez

I mean about the new 6 speed double hub. I still don't understand how it works (complete bike newbie here). Pictures would help.

badmother

On the six speed setup it is a regular looking three speed hub with one cable comming out trough the axle on the right side of the bike.

If you ride it as a three speed you can notice that there is quite a big gap between the gears.

Only difference to the hub is that you can put two sprockets on it instead of one. The second gear cable is used to shift the chain between these two sprockets. 2 x 3 = 6

Tip: Look for a YouTube video. Often much more informative than pictures.

Edit:

BassNotBass

The 6 spd Brompton uses an internally geared 3 spd hub but two external sprockets insead of only 1 as fitted to the 3 spd.


I think the wide steps between each 'speed' on the 6 spd Brompton generally makes only 4 of them really usable as offered by the -12% option. So far my 3spd with the -12% option has never left me wanting more. Top gear is for flats, 2nd for moderate inclines and 1st for the really steep ones.

reppans

All the gears are perfectly usable on the 6 speed. Although the steps are not perfectly linear, they are all in the 23-28% increment range. The issue for some on the 6 spd is the quirky double shift between 2>3 and 4>5. My most frequently use gears for running the flat straights is 4th and 5th, and since I've rigged an aero drop bar riding position in the M bars, that dang double shift forces me to come out of it . Still, well worth it for the all the other conveniences to me .

BassNotBass

Around 75 gi is fine for me on flats and I don't need to pedal on descents, I have enough mass to really get me hauling despite the wind resistance of my wide frontal area. I'm working on growing a beer belly because that actually would be somewhat more aerodynamic.

rsanchezsaez

Thanks for all the info. The video is really instructive, I get it now.

Unfortunately I’ll be only able to test ride the 6-gear (hopefully this Sunday), so I’m still on the fence.

I’ll report back!

BassNotBass

That's great, when test riding the six speed you'll also be able to determine if a three speed would suffice or the three extra gears really make a difference to you.

I'd like to know what gears you end up using most.

rsanchezsaez

So I tried the H and M Bromptons yesterday. They were super fun to ride!

Im still trying to decide between 3g and 6g.

The gears I used the most where 3, 4 and 5. I only used gear 1 on quite a long and steep hill that's on my commute, but I feel that when I get in better shape I could do it on gear 2 or 3.

I made the following little image to help me decide about the best gear ratio for me. Yellow is 6g, red is regular 3g, orange is 3g-12% and blue is 3g-18%.



Now I'm on the fence between 3g and 3g-12%, leaning towards the regular 3g (and putting faith in my legs getting stronger in the future).

I'm also not sure wether to get the M or H type. Even though I'm not very tall, I think I enjoyed riding the H more (I like the upright position). However, the extra weight is off-puting, and M seems to have more resale value. I'd have appreciated an extra day or two of riding them, I may rent them again.

And I'm also not sure if I should get the dynamo or not. One of them had it, and it was a nice touch.

I'm quite sensitive about the weight. (I liked riding them so much, that I think I'm going to spend big bucks for ultra-light titanium extremities, and perhaps some mods like titanium seatpost too. I plan to keep this bike forever.)

Any thoughts?

Hexley

I think I'd get the M3L Brompton, myself, provided it was my daily driver. Best balance of weight and features to price (and perhaps, resale value, as it's most traditionally spec'd), but then I live in South Florida and there are no hills, so a 6 speed is generally unnecessary. I think doubling the budget from $600 to about $1400 is fair if you're riding daily and it's replacing the costs of a car or mass transit... but quadrupling the budget to $2200+ for a titanium model... for me that's getting harder to justify- that's approaching the annual cost to run my Honda Fit...

rsanchezsaez

@Hexley: Thanks for the insight!