lacro

Hi all,
I am new here. I haven't cycled in many years. I just turned 72, and I have a bad knee, but cycling is something I want to get back to. I previously rode an aluminum Klein Performance frame that I built. I used to ride a lot, training, racing, touring, centuries, etc. However, that was a long time ago. I then switched to Mtn. biking, and did that for several years too. Kind of got away from cycling until I picked up at a yard sale an old Raleigh Super Course as a possible project/flip. I stripped it down, and cleaned/polished everything, and put it away, hoping to get it done someday.

Well.... that day has come. I no longer want it as just a project or flip. I want to keep it, and ride it! I need some suggestions on how to proceed. I definitely want to replace the crap Simplex derailleurs, and probably shifters. I am not sure what I want for bars as there is a lot of choices. I do have a pair of Suntour barcon bar end shifters I could use. Also I have a pair of Suntour Superbe pedals I will use. My immediate need is crank cotters, as they were destroyed during disassembly. They are 9.5mm x probably 35mm long. Any suggestions appreciated especially for derailleurs, and a source for cotters, but I am open for any and all ideas for this build.

I believe the bike is a 1973 Raleigh Super Course because it has Capella lugs, and the Russell BB spindle has 2-73 stamped in it.

Frame is 23.5" Reynolds 531 with Carlton stickers, painted Coffee color with chrome stays
Fork: Chrome & paint, no name stamp
Crank set is Stronglite steel 52/42
Saddle: Brooks B17
Post/clamp: steel, 26.4mm
Brakes: Weinmann center pull, Weinman levers, white Carlton hoods
Wheels : alloy with large flange Normandy hubs, and 1.5mm galv. steel spokes
Stem: GB alum.
F&R Derailleurs: Simplex
Freewheel: Simplex 14/28
Shifters: Simplex friction, down tube
Skewers: M.Matom
Bars: Aluminum, drop
Peddles: #501 stamped on them
Tires: none yet

ryansu

First of all, that is gorgeous work! that frame looks factory fresh. If you have a bike shop in your area that works on older bike they might have cotters. You can find them at Bikesmith design link here

Sheldon Brown also has some articles on Cottered Cranks

Be sure and post photos of your finished build

bwilli88 

This is a real nice bike. My thoughts would be more along the way of a restomod. Get a nice pair of early Shimano 105 derailleurs and crankset. Take out that cottered bottom bracket and get a nice Square taper cartridge unit.
Great frame and will look real nice when setup.
here is my 77 Supercourse set up this way
IMG_20151208_092443466a by Bwilli88, on Flickr

IMG_20151208_092416047 by Bwilli88, on Flickr

jimmuller 

I suggest rebuilding that bike mostly with the components you already have, and don't throw away the components you do replace. That "crap" Simplex RD, for example, doesn't have the typical red nameplate of the common Prestige. Could it be a higher model? Possibly, which means someone here in C&V might want it. Even the Prestige RD worked pretty well. I'd suggest a Suntour Vx-S. That's the most common long-cage version. The Vx-GT is much rarer. If you want to stay with a smallish FW the short-cage Vx would do nicely. Another good long-cage choice would be the VGT-Luxe. Those Suntour RD's would have been common upgrades when the bike was newer. I don't see a FD in your pic. I'm guessing the mounting band broke, a common problem with them. Almost any FD would do, so why not try to match whatever you put on the rear?

I think I see a GB stem, probably alloy bar. Decent brakes (put new Koolstop pads on them), seat post and clamp, etc. Are those shift levers Simplex Criteriums? If so they are worth something and a match to the RD, possibly swapped in along with the RD by a previous owner. An alloy crank will be significantly lighter and save you the trouble of dealing with the cotters. You already have alloy wheels. Just repack the bearings and away you go!

jj1091

That's a beauty, wonderful shape. I can send you a set of cotters for it. I'd love to pick up that Simplex rear derailleur from you if you replace it, I had just posted a thread yesterday looking for that model with a claw-mount. Send me a reply if you can to my email, jjdm1091a1@aol.com.

rustystrings61 

First off, that is a beautiful example of a detailed cleaning!

The Raleigh Super Course has a cult following and is well worth building up however you see fit. For fun, if you have the time to trawl through all 55 pages and counting, there is this thread that is absolutely chock-a-block with approaches to building them up. Someday if I get lucky, I, too, may get to experience Raleigh Super Course magic. The descriptive phrase I've run into here is the Super Course "rides lighter than it is."

The Weinmann 999 centerpulls, fitted with good stainless cables and teflon lined housing and some Kool-Stop or Scott-Matthauser pads will match any other rim brake out there. The Normandy Sport hubs, when cleaned and repacked, are surprisingly smooth and gave zillions of cyclists a good ride for decades. Those are probably Nisi alloy rims, and despite the steady drumbeat of the market, 27 x 1 1/4 is not a dead tire size - at least, not so long as Panaracer makes the Pasela in that size. With the original rims you'll want to run your tires at the classical 70 psi or so range, which with a good tire yields a buttery smooth ride that gives up very little speed, if any.

The bars and stem you have are the originals, but if you decided you wanted some wider ones (those are probably 38 cm center-to-center on the ends), or perhaps to have a stem that raises your bars higher, I would point you to Nitto. The Technomic looks traditional enough, and I find I really feel most comfortable with bars about shoulder width - for me, 42cm.

I'm in the camp that suggests SunTour, especially since you have a set of the SunTour power ratchet bar end shifters. I also think that while the steel crankset is a decent one, an alloy cotterless crankset would not be a bad thing on this bike.

I'm eager to see what you do next!

Narhay

Make sure to repack the headset, wheel hubs and bottom bracket with new ball bearings and grease.

I wouldnt put the spoke protector back on. I would try to find a cotterless crank. The barcons are nice. I like them but some prefer downtube shifters. I would get an alloy seatpost as well. They are quite inexpensive and look nicer than the post and clamp style.

Here is mine until I sold it with quite a few modifications. This was the initial setup and then I changed some things out later. Wider 27" tires, found a matching fork, cable lengths, etc.

bertinjim 

lacro-

Your rear derailleur is a Simplex Criterium and is a more robust and good shifting improvement on the Prestige. Its chrome steel pulley cage is stiffer and prettier and it has ball bearings in the pulley wheels. The matching front derailleur usually has a chromed front band to differentiate it from the plain alloy band on the Prestige. If you are staying with the OEM kit, it's a good derailleur to have. By the way, getting alloy Criterium shift levers will vastly improve the shifter feel, should you decide to keep the Simplex derailleurs.

ollo_ollo

Great job so far, you are almost ready to do your build. Many good suggestions above. You may already know this, but to use your bar con shifters, you need to find one of these clamp-on, downtube cable stops and exchange them for the clamp on shifters you have now. Don
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HURET-1-1-8...EAAOSw~JRapm9K

lacro

Thanks guys! This is the info I need. I am kind of torn between keeping it stock and doing a restomod. I really want to ride this bike, but I want the comfortable ride of larger tires. What is the biggest tire I can use with existing alloy no hook rims (1-1/4)? Finding vintage mid quality components is daunting. I haven't had any luck yet, any suggestions besides Flea-bay?

I have already replaced all ball bearing in wheels, head set, BB, wheels, and pedals with new grade 25 balls. Besides finding suitable F&R derailleurs, and possibly an alloy crank, I am undecided what to do with the wheels. The spokes are 1.5mm galv. steel and were rusty. They cleaned up pretty good. The rear rim had a radial flat spot, probably from hitting a pot hole. I couldn't get the low spot out with spoke adjustment, so I had to remove a couple spokes, and pound it out. It's now pretty good, but not perfect. Also, someone must have trued the wheel at some point, and lost the proper dish. Some of the spokes have frozen nipples that won't move, so fixing the dish issue may not be possible. So - to make a long story short: Should I just replace the spokes with new SS ones using the same non hook rim, or do a 700c conversion so I can use bigger tires?

As for the existing components, I do have the front derailleur, but there is a broken screw that I can't get out. It's a slotted screw that I think tightens on the cable? So I really must find at least a front derailleur. The rear is just labeled "Prestige", and the shifters are labeled Simplex, Modele Depose, Made in France. The stem is a GP alloy, and the bars are also aluminum. I can probably use most of the existing bits for now except the Front derailleur, but I would really like to find a suitable good quality group to put on, including the crank set. Also, I may use a raised stem with the drop bars to get my position a little higher.

My biggest current issue is what to do with the wheels if I can't free up the spokes, and fix the dish issue. Do I rebuild with the existing rims, and stay with 27" tires with the width limits or rebuild with 700c for wider modern tires, keeping the original hubs in either case??

I appreciate all the opinions, ideas, please keep them coming.

kunsunoke 

Some recommendations from an ex-Carlton owner, assuming you actually want to ride the bike:

1) Mothball the cranks and cottered spindle. Cottered cranks are nothing but trouble.
2) Borrow an appropriate set of tools to get the bearing cups out of the frame. Mothball those as well.
3) Replace the above with a decent, forged aluminum crankset with a standard five-point attachment system, preferably 110/74BCD or 130BCD. Preferably these should be made by Sugino and have 48/34 or 48/49 chainrings. Note that this will be a cotterless setup. You will need a crank puller for JIS/ISO square four-taper cranks.
4) Purchase a matching cartridge ball bracket set and an ISO installation tool to go with. Shimano UN-55 or similar should work well.
5) Dump the steel seat post and replace with an SR Laprade of the same diameter.
6) Get a claw attachment for threaded rear derailleurs to replace the Simplex mounting. To reiterate - the clawfoot must be threaded.
7) Sell the Simplex derailleurs on e-Bay and replace with Suntour Cyclone. You will want to get a long-cage rear derailleur for maximum gearing flexibility.
8) Purchase a dual-cable stop for the downtube. Problem Solvers makes good ones.
9) Examine the rims on the wheelset. If they are not the hooked type, you will need to purchase lower-pressure 27" tires - or consider swapping the rims out in favor of more modern hooked 27" or 700c variants.
10) Treat the seat with Proofide or Sno-Seal.
11) Measure the existing handlebars for width. If the width is less than 40cm you may need to consider getting wider bars. Nitto 115 bars are a good choice for a GB 1" clamp stem.
12) Velox or Neubaum's white cotton bar tape should work well, especially if you treat the tape with red shellac. Alternatively, you could use Brooks antique leather tape, but doing so will be cost-prohibitive.

3speedslow

You have a wonderful bike to continue your riding pastime! I am in the same boat with a bad knee. A great fit to a project bike is just as important to me as those nice component I hang on the frame. I wish you luck and joy with this bike!

agmetal

This '73 with tri-color 600 components lives at my parents' house:

agmetal

Is it just me, or is that fork bent?

obrentharris 

Nice bike!
As others have pointed out your rear derailleur is actually quite nice... however it will not handle your wide-range freewheel with its 30-tooth big cog. You will have to either replace the freewheel with a closer ratio model or replace the derailleur with one that can handle the lower gears.
Brent

Essthreetee

Lacro, I have that exact bike. I purchased it because it was born when I was. Mine was completely original when I got it...however it no longer is. As has already been suggested, I replaced the derailleurs with Suntour VX, I replaced the seatpost with a fluted aluminum one, the Cranks got replaced with a later “Raleigh” version of SR, bottom bracket with a cartridge, and the bars got replaced with some Soma Highway 1.

Do with yours what ever it takes to get you back out there. Inspiration is key. Have fun.

ollo_ollo

If your rear derailleur is truly a Criterium, the spec says max is a 34 tooth rear cog VeloBase.com - Component: Simplex Criterium I can only verify the 1 on my PKN10 handles a 13-26 freewheel handily.

Also, as a 77 y.o., I am still amazed at what a bit of regular cycling does to drive away the aches & pains that come with age. Get that SC rolling and it will reward you. Don

Slightspeed

Nice looking project. I just finished a '73 SC about a year ago, from a spray painted and abused alley find frame. Some genius had ground off all the frame cable guides, and there were cracks where the seat stays joined the seat tube. The non original aluminum seat post was firmly stuck, also and it had a non original black powder coated fork.The only good thing is the rear chain stay chrome was more or less protected by the spray paint, and it had a Sugino BB and AT crank, no chainwheels. You have a lot more to start from than I did. Besides frame rebrazing, I added cable guides, and had it repainted a darker than stock green using Toyota automotive paint, new decals too. I stayed with the Sugino AT crank, added triple chain wheels, 32/40/50t, and used Suntour VGT Luxe RD and Cyclone II FD, with a Shimano Megarange 6 speed 34t freewheel, shifted by Suntour bar ends. It's a sweet ride, everything works superbly. As a first ever bike build, I'm really happy with how it turned out. I did a lot of lurking and research here on the forum, and got lots of good info. I found an NOS Rampar chrome fork on ebay, and went with original type GB stem and bars from eBay. The brakes are Weinmann original type centerpulls with Kool stop dual compound pads. I converted to 700c wheels using longer reach calipers.

I'm 68 and plan to ride it in next month's Eroica. I rode in 2016 with my Legnano and 42/26 best gear, and walked several hills, I plan to ride the Raleigh over the hills with the more friendly gearing. Good luck with yours. BF is the right place to start. The drive train I put together was easy to find, cheap to build, and so far, troublefree. Since this picture, I've added 28c Panaracer Paselas, which work great on this bike, even on dirt and gravel.

jj1091

If it was me, I'd keep it stock. It has particularly nice components for its vintage, except maybe the shifters, and an upgrade would be to use the Criterium version instead of the Prestige.

VeloBase.com - Component: Simplex Criterium (5th type with S logo)

The Simplex RD is sought after, as is the nice Stronglight crankset. I'd rebuild the wheels with new rims and spokes, slap on some 27 x 1-1/4's, and ride it.

Narhay

I rebuilt my wheels with stainless spokes, reusing the same rim because the spokes were rusty. My rim was in great shape so that tipped the balance. A 27 x 1-1/4" tire at 60psi should be ok.

Once you get into rebuilding with new rims and spokes it might be easier just to get a prebuilt velomine wheelset.

Salamandrine 

I'd probably keep it mostly stock too. Suntour barcon shifters would be nice. Modern cable housing and cables.

IMO try replacing the freewheel and chain first, before the derailleurs. 75% of shifting is the chain and freewheel IME. I think Sunrace and IRD both make a 5 speed still. Pretty stealthy, but with modern teeth the shifting will be smoother and quicker. I've always found that Simplex derailleurs if in good tune shift quite decently. Unfortunately 90% of the time they are not in proper tune. The fronts do tend to crack at the mount after a few decades, because of the plastic.

Nothing wrong with a high quality cottered crankset like that one. Because of all the junk ones sold in the 70s people think cottered cranks are terrible, but they are not. I might consider a Stronglight 93 as a period correct cotterless upgrade. 37t chainwheels are available for them.

PS That paint looks great. The old stoved enamels had a nice look to them.

lacro

Wow! You guys are great! So many ideas, my head is spinning. Update: I couldn't save the rear wheel spokes, so I cut them off. I cleaned up the rim and I think I may have removed the flat spot. I do have the correct length spokes on hand, but they are 2mm and the do fit the hub holes. The originals were 1.5mm. I can rebuild the wheel for nothing (if I remember how), but if I go for 700c, I may not have the spokes, and I will have to buy rims and spokes. If I didn't have to buy spokes, just the 700c rims I might go that way. However, will the original brakes even reach a 700c rim? If I reuse the original rims, I can start building the wheel right away, but that may be big mistake?

I went through of my old stash of parts, and found a pristine Shimano Deore DX rear derailleur, long cage. Will that work with my 14/28, 5sp freewheel? I do have a hook hanger too. I could use it till I find some Suntour Cyclone or similar parts. I like the idea of using Suntour stuff because the bar ends shifters are Suntour, and My Superbe pedals are as well. but, right now I want to get the drive train going so I can ride when the weather breaks (snow country). If the DX will work for now, all I need is a front derailleur.

I will look for an alloy post, wider bars as mine are 38mm, and a crank set. I do have a pair of 52/42, 110 BCD Sugino rings if I can find a pair of Sugino crank arms for them.

For the purists, I hear ya! I don't want to ruin this 45 year old classic, I just want something this old dude can ride with some comfort in the pot holed ridden NE. (i.e. bigger tires, cushy ride) Everything I take off I will keep so it can be rebuilt in stock form. At least for now! My biggest concern is what to do about wheels. Should I rebuild with stock rims, or go with modern 700c rims, or even 27" hooked rims?

Again, thanks for all the suggestions. Being a newbie, I am restricted on what and how I post, so bear with me till I get there.

Lacro....

jj1091

I've got those Weinmann 610/750 brakes on my Raleigh, which I converted to 700c. They reach fine, bottoming out on the arms. Shouldn't be a problem. I'd go ahead and build the wheels with what's on-hand, 27's are fine. Besides, you can be out riding it now, then later build up some 700c's with new spokes when you're in the mood to order some. Who knows, you might just be happy with the 27's.

palincss

If you stay with 27 x 1 1/4" non hook bead rims, your best choice in a tire is going to be the Panaracer Pasela, which is 32mm wide. There's not a lot of choice in that size anymore, and there never were many 27" tires wider than 1 1/4". You'll have more choices if you convert to 700C, and it's possible those Weinmann centerpulls may reach a 700C rim. If not, you'll need to replace brakes as well as wheels.

Before going overboard worrying about components, I think the first thing you should do is consider the terrain you ride in and the gearing you'll need. You have a bad knee; that trumps all. (I spent 50 years with a bad knee, before it was replaced, so I'm speaking from first hand experience here.) Figure out the gearing you need, then find components that will give you that gearing.

I recently built up a 55 year old Jack Taylor in a way that I think you'd like. I'm using 700C wheels, Mafac Racer brakes (which have just enough reach to make the conversion work) and a 110/74 triple crank (it happens to be an XTR M900, but there are some very nice Sugino cranks that will give you the same gearing) with 24, 36 and 46 tooth chain rings mated to a custom 8 speed 13-32 cassette (which began life as a 12-32, customized by swapping the 1st position 12 for a 1st position 13). There's a huge array of Shimano derailleurs that will shift this gearing and index just fine with new 8 speed bar end shifters; I'm using XTR M900 rear derailleur and a more recent 2002 vintage Deore XT front, but there are many derailleurs that will work just fine for it. If you do something similar, you'll probably have to have the rear end spread to accommodate 130mm spacing. As it happens, a 130mm hub fits fine in my Jack Taylor - perhaps the original owner had the rear triangle spread at some point.

Slightspeed

Mine's the dark green one just above. Like I said, I had a bare frame, blank canvas. I had already bought the standard reach Weinmann brakes, and a buddy gave me a set of large flange Campy hubs laced to dark anodized Mavic MA40 rims. I had already bought a fork for 27" rims too. I tried filing the old brake's slotted holes to drop the pad mounting a little lower. Almost made it, then came across a couple of long reach Weinmanns for $5 each at a bike swap meet. End of problem. Pretty sure you will need long reach calipers if you go to 700c. All my other bikes are all 700c, so I'm happier this way anyway.