eschlwc

along with the two treks i bought today was this third bike, a windsor from around the same time period. the original owner said she bought this one in ventura, california in 1980 and rode it down to the yukatan and around alaska. i couldn't believe how light it was when first picking it up. it has tubulars laced to an ofmega hubset. and the guy who sold it said it was columbus tubing. both are a first for me.

i really want to rebuild it, but tackling the rust on the frame will be another new experience. it certainly seems like a great bike i'd enjoy rebuilding and riding with some clinchers...

any help on the tubing and the windsor brand/model is appreciated.

-bill

eschlwc

suntour drops and cyclone



interesting seat cluster that reads "8106" on the nds side ... and it came with a campy frame pump!



how does one tackle this kind of frame rust?



windsor stamped bars

JohnDThompson 

Windsor copied that cluster from Cinelli. Unscrupulous sellers have been known re-badge Windsor frames as Cinelli to garner a higher selling price.

And the pump looks to be a Silca "Impero," probably with a Campagnolo head.

eschlwc

absolutely right about the pump. i'm learning a lot today.

i think all the bottom of the bb shell reads is "58."

Lascauxcaveman 

I like your chances on the frame lugs, with a good long soak in naval jelly or whatever, but that fork crown looks like it's toast. Did these folks live down on the shore at Alki, or what? That is some impressive iron oxide.

Barchettaman

I'd have a gentle rub of the rust on the crome with WD-40 and scrumpled aluminium foil, see where that gets you.

eschlwc

^ ok, thanks for the tip. i'll give that a try.

i think i've gotten in over my head on this group purchase. ugh.

Sir_Name 

Agreed that the chrome on the fork crown may be beyond salvation... I have a Windsor Carrera Sport from around the same time period and remember it as being a decent rider (I haven't had it built in ~4yrs and I'm sure a better wheelset will help its case). From my sample size of one my impression is that these were fairly well made - someone was at least paying attention to what they were doing. Miters seem decent from what I can tell sighting/feeling them through the BB shell and head tube, paint is good, chrome is good (the chrome sock on the NDS fork blade on my CS is gone - though that's more to do with previous owners). Mine has straight gauge Tange tubing, different lugs (chromed head lugs still), same dropouts, different geometry. Spreaking for the Carrera Sport, it's nothing special, but that and the fact that it rides well enough makes it a good candidate for lots of use in places you might not take a nicer bike. I believe the Competition was at the top of their line - the components on yours would support that. These bike were hecho'd en Mexico (the story goes that Merckx's hour record bike received Windsor decals just before his efforts in Mexico City).

What's the head badge look like on yours? Black 'W' with red shadowing and black outline?

Check for a Columbus/dove stamp on the fork steerer tube. Its absense may not mean much, but presence would lend credence to the tubing claim by the seller.

rhm

I had a bike just like OP's in the early eighties. Same components as far as I can see, same chromed lugs. Mine was blue. I don't know what model it was, but it definitely had a Columbus tubing sticker.

JT1973

I'd say 1980 Windsor Touring Elite and that yours was resprayed to that fade paint job. I have one in cobalt blue in very good condition; perhaps in same size, tho I seem to remember it as a 57. Mine has the same components, minus the campy headset. Mine has a columbus tubing decal on the seat tube. No indication on decal of SL or SP. It's a really nice rider with decent clearances for fenders and fatter 700c tires if you go that way. I'll try to post some pictures of mine.

While the last thing you might need is another frameset, I'm looking to sell this Windsor ($125 + shipping). You could transfer over your parts after treating them with a rust removal solution. Good luck with your projects!

JT1973

Here are some photos of mine. Seems it is a 58 as well.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/901507...7648550051433/

eschlwc

it's missing, and there's no rivet holes for a badge.

will do... if i ever get the stem out. another first for me -- stuck stem. at least the seatpost came out.

the bike is super light, though. it's certainly nice tubing.

eschlwc

interesting. why do you say that model? i was also thinking the '8106' on the seat lug might mean june, 1981, and the original owner was off by a year.

a good price for your beautiful frameset. i'll give it some thought.

i will certainly need it.

Sir_Name 

I can add an image of the head badge (decal) on mine later tonight if it would help, though there were at least two types and the Comp. may have received different artwork from the Carrera. May also be dependent on age.

There's info on these on the Classic Rendezvous site.

JT1973

why do you say that model? i was also thinking the '8106' on the seat lug might mean june, 1981, and the original owner was off by a year.

I'll try to look at my serial number to help corroborate year. I suggested touring elite b/c the components and seat stays were the same and b/c I hadn't heard of the competition before. It could very well be a competition. I haven't seen any images of that model. Your frame does not have brake cable guides like mine does and it might also have slightly shorter chain stays. Anyway, these two models are very similar siblings from the look of things (& without frame specs and measurements to establish the other differences between the models).

eschlwc

^ yeah, that's strange to me that an '80 or newer road frame hasn't brazed top tube guides, but does have brazed guides atop the bb shell and one atop the ds chainstay.

my '80 moto is just the opposite.

eschlwc

the date codes on the two suntour cyclone derailleurs are late '76 and early '77. that's three years earlier than when the owner said the bike was purchased. hmmm...

the frame is just too nice to go unpainted. needs a good acid dip and sandblast probably.

i'm thinking i'll just sell this one as a project: frameset with the bb and campy sr headset ... and maybe stuck stem unless i can remedy that not-so-little issue.

juvela

wrt dating - that stem had been superseded well before 1980. of course acer-mex could have had a big supply of them they were using up...

eschlwc

^ it's a cool 'gran compe' stem i hadn't seen before. the reach part is thin, angular (triangular) and long. i could tell you a date maybe if i could get the damn thing out.

juvela

it has an inclined plane type expander plug rather than the conical type. it may even be an .833. acer-mex built quite a few frames with .833 steerers. yours should be high enough quality and late enough that one would expect a 22.2 i.d.

eschlwc

does knowing the type/shape of stem wedge aid in freeing a stuck stem?

i'm new at this (awful) part of c&v.

juvela

not particularly. one simply unthreads the stem expander bolt somewhat and gives it a kosh; then the bolt and expander are out of the picture as far as freeing the stem.

there are likely a good many threads at the mechanicing forum about this process; just try searching "stuck stem", "frozen stem" or "seized stem."

you could invert the frame and pour your liquid penetrant in there and leave it overnight. some swear by liquid wrench, some by automatic transmissiion fluid and others by mug brand root beer. then clamp the fork crown in a beefy bench vise with blocks of wood. you will then have both hands free to use the handlebar to turn the stem in the steerer. presto, "bob's your uncle."

JT1973

My Gran Compe stem has the conical expander type wedge and a marked diameter of 22.2. It also has a date code of 79.
The serial number on my touring elite is 11767, which doesn't seem to relate in any way to the year of this frame.

eschlwc

i freed most all the stuck **** (still have a cable stuck in a shifter), and i've decided to build up (rebuild) this wondeful frameset. woohoo!

please do. that might be really helpful.

ok, the bb shell reads 58. the st is 22" c-c. the tt is 22.5" c-c. the chainstays are 17" c-c. please let me know what you think.

i did that. and it worked! my first stuck stems ... or really stuck stems, and using atf and acetone in equal parts poured down the steerer worked on both these bikes i got that same day. i tell ya, when i first noticed both were stuck, i really started sweating and wondering if i just wasted my money.

in one bike, the fluid was dripping out the headset, so i plugged the fork with a velox bar end plug and flipped it back upright to soak a week. and that's all it took. well, that, and all the strength i could muster to pull the stem out once it would turn. an exciting moment.

i had never heard that uncle bob quote before. i need to get out more.

thanks for all the help guys.

Sir_Name 

'Ear ya go:


Matches @JT1973 's example above. Click his link if you haven't - your bikes are very similar.

Best.