zandoval 

Well I don't use Brifters but I have been on bikes that have them. When ya get that bike that has excellent stopping power and shifting up and down to the point the bike is almost intuitive, then its dialed in. It's not a term much used anymore. (Kinda like a word used when you finally get your 454 with a cam to idle back in 68.)

A true test of a wheel is not just Truing it. Making sure it is balanced out, damage repaired, tension just right, and SINGING is what makes a tuned wheel.

But of course urbanknight, you know this... Ha

zandoval 

Off topic: I was really surprised a few years ago when our Central Texas roofing crew was replacing our roof. The all Hispanic crew was up there in the heat doing the do and the Gopher on the ground was fetching stuff as required. He was also watching a piece of carpet on the hood of a truck with all the guys cell phones. I asked about it and he replied in Spanish, "NO PHONES ON THE ROOF"...

jadmt

I would just be happy to be able to get my freaking canti lever brakes adjusted properly.....everything else is just white noise lol.

RCMoeur 

That used to be one interview question for getting hired at shops around here about 40 years ago before the days of "disposable wheels" - describing step-by-step the overhaul process from memory. My skills don't extend to that particular action, so I'm glad I wasn't asked it.

One shop I applied at simply asked me: "Build a wheel." I was just out of high school and didn't have that skill, so I said I couldn't - yet. He must have been desperate for help or took pity on me, as he hired me anyway, and the first thing I learned was his method of building and lacing, which I still use to this day. Half a year later, I was fired as I was becoming a good mechanic, but not a fast mechanic, whereas the shop needed both to make money. I worked at other shops in college on a piecework rate (per bike, not per hour), and was able to work at my pace and give the quality they wanted. Now I just do it for myself, friends, and about 3-4 nonprofits.

Interestingly, the wheelbuilding method I learned is not The Method espoused by Jobst, and so when I teach I have to advise people that it is a different approach. But the wheels have held up for decades, and the valve hole is always at the correct spot.

RCMoeur 

You mentioned you volunteer at co-ops. You're probably familiar with a client coming in with a poorly-adjusted bike, and trying to explain the tune-up and repair process to them step by step. Many clients are good with this, but you sometimes get the person muttering quietly or loudly "IknowwhatImdoingIvebeenworkingonbikesforyearsandIcandothisstuffitsjustthisbikeisapieceofgarbageando therwiseIcoulddothismyself" where it seems on their bike every spoke has been adjusted with a 12" crescent and every bolt tightened with Mr. Vise Grips. And then you get the Tool Abusers, such as clients using a hammer and screwdriver when you're standing there ready to hand them the lockring tool. Or the person bringing in a frame with the mangled remains of a cartridge BB still within and saying "I didn't have a tool, so I used... stuff.. to try to remove it." And you're the bad guy for telling them that BB is now a permanent resident in that frame.

But hey, it's part of the job. And as I remind my customers, "My advice and assistance is worth exactly what you paid for it!"

Yes, we have insurance...

RCMoeur 

With all the twist shifters I've wrestled with, I've actually gotten reasonably experienced in cable replacement, although some brands and models do require more exercising of the bounds of one's vocabulary. On some of them due to their age and construction, it will only work well if a grip is nestled next to it to keep it together after the brittle retainer cracked, but hey, it still shifts. Others I can do almost in my sleep.

I'm sure someday when they tear down our house they'll find all of those funny-shaped springs that somehow fell or bounced out of the shifter and vanished, after the cable was properly routed and just before the final closure...

urbanknight

Got it. I guess dialing in the brifters means you dialed in both the derailleurs and brakes properly. Also that makes sense why you say “tuning” and not just truing. Just hadn’t heard the terms used that way before.

urbanknight

Yeah, my mind also went to brifters with adjustable reach. Glad zandoval clarified.

retswerb

Look I know it may be off topic at this point, but I'm not letting that statement go unchallenged. It's one thing to opine that those who can afford good service should do so; what you said instead is just elitist BS.

maddog34

and there is the PERFECT question... "Where do you use a Vice Grip plier on a bicycle?"
Good answer.... " Nowhere"
Best answer "Only on the nuts some bozo previously rounded off with one, then i replace the nut, and write it down on the work order."

Hired.

Oldbill

There is no right answer for this question about what makes a real bike mechanic. As someone earlier pointed out, it is all relative to when you were trained and the level of the bikes you worked on. As a bike mechanic trained in a touring oriented shop (1980s) I still work on 1980s bikes because I like them. My tools are based on those models. I build wheels, overhaul multi speed hubs, etc, but I have no interest in hydraulic brakes or electronic shifting. If I have to learn a new skill to work on a bike I like, then I will. Otherwise I stay in my chosen lane. I consider myself a bike mechanic with a specific skill set.
After all, no one expects an auto mechanic that specializes in old British cars to have the tools and knowledge to fix a new Ferrari.

cyccommute 

How, exactly, can a cable adjustment send a derailer into the spokes? Once the limit screws are set properly no amount of cable tension can cause the derialer to go beyond that limit. The cable simple isn’t strong enough to push the derailer past the limits. If someone grabbed a screw driver and started messing with the limit screws in an effort to “adjust the shifting”, all bets are off.

It is the bedding process that usually causes the shifting to go all wonky which is why fixing bad shifting is such an easy fix. I somewhat agree that once construction stretch in the cable has been eliminate through use, that little more needs to be done. But getting the construction stretch out of the cable is variable and may take more than one adjustment to completely account for it. A one meter cable has about 5mm of stretch in it and the barrel adjusters on a derailer and/or shifter may not have that much adjustment.

As to limit screws going out of adjustment…well, no. Just no. The screws in the derailer have been treated with thread locking compound since roughly the stone age and don’t vibrate loose on bicycles that experience a low vibration environment. About the only reason that adjustment screws go out of adjustment is if someone “adjusted” them in the mistaken idea that they are what is wrong when a derailer isn’t shifting properly.

tcs

Yeah, I offered that as a question to a 'shade tree mechanic', not as a shop interview question. The idea is: can you successfully complete a mildly complicated repair you're unfamiliar with, seeking sources of information and following directions? And also: can you keep tiny parts from leaving your local frame of reference and traveling to a parallel universe?

cyccommute 

I try to listen to the client when they describe what their problem is. If they use bicycle terms, I treat them differently than someone who is there to fix the “gear changer thingy”. I also take a hands off approach (as much as possible) when it comes to help because that is the policy in the shop. People are supposed to do their own work. I will demonstrate what needs to be done but stand back and let the client use the tool. Additionally, I was the Saturday guy and generally ran the “fix your bike” shop by myself because few volunteers can stand trying to work with 30 people per day on 6 stands. I would get someone started on something and then there would be the inevitable “Stuart?!” I would monitor what people are doing and only step in if they really seemed to be struggling but if I got 3 minutes to work with someone, they should have considered themselves lucky.

As to the cable adjusting quip above, I have always like that kind of repair…and it has always been the most common repair I had to deal with…because it is quick and easy and I can get the repair stand cleared quickly so that we could get another client into the stand. Huge numbers of clients were surprised at how quick and easy that kind of fix is.

I don’t really darken the door of many shops anymore because I’m that guy muttering "IknowwhatImdoingIvebeenworkingonbikesforyears” after some snot-nosed kid tells me “you can’t do that” when I have the example of “doing that” right in front of them. My latest experience was at a shop in your neck of the woods. I had a cassette that was too loose on the freehub and needed a spacer. I walked in and asked for a 1mm spacer for a freehub. I knew what I wanted, what I needed, and how to use it. The mechanic started giving me the third degree on why I needed that spacer.

“Is it an 11 speed cassette?”

”No. It’s a 9 speed cassette but it’s loose on the body”

”You don’t need a spacer for 9 speed cassettes.”

”Yes, I do because the cassette is loose on the body.”

”No, you don’t.”

”Just sell me the spacer.” Muttering under my breath “"IknowwhatImdoingIvebeenworkingonbikesforyearsandIshouldhavegonetotheothershop”

cyccommute 

That’s an unfair question. No one can! I love the ones that bounce, you see it bounce, you see it arc into the air and then it’s gobbled up by a wormhole before it hits the ground again. The tiny screws on Shimano EF500 shifter/brake combo levers are particularly unstable in our reality. I prefer changing cables in Gripshift…the old double cable wrap ones…to changing cables on the EF500.

KerryIrons

Nonsense. I put 9-10K miles per year on a bike, and when I do the annual maintenance I always find things that need cleaning, lubrication, repair or replacement. To suggest that bikes "never" need maintenance is preposterous on its face.

soyabean

I wouldn't buy a car if I couldn't afford and maintain one. Cars are expensive things and if I was poor, public transportation it is. I don't expect to own a vehicle and assume it's my right that it must be cheap to maintain.

I wouldn't buy a house if I couldn't afford and maintain one. Properties are expensive things and if I was poor, it's sharing a flat with Craigslist roomates. I don't expect a house to be given to me below market value and assume it's my right that it must be repaired by unlicensed contractors that offer the same quality as trained and licensed and bonded contractors. Building codes and permits exist for this reason.

If I couldn't afford to maintain a bike properly, I'd invest in a city transit pass and good shoes.

A shadetree mechanic is not a Local Bike Shop. Period.

As a bike wrench that has been employed at Local Bike Shops, I don't run my own illegal STM shop against municipal code because I tell anyone who asks to go support their LBS.

Especially friends and family. I don't have time to be their slave and fix their crap that their STM broke when I could be cycling. I should apologize for that, right?

cyccommute 

Sealed cartridge bearings in hubs, headset, and crank need no kind of maintenance for years at a time. Those kinds of bearings are designed for far heavier duty use than a bicycle demands. Cables for brakes and derailers last years as well. If you use a chain lubricant that doesn’t collect dirt and isn’t an oily mess, you never need to actually “clean” anything. I am aware of what my bike is doing while riding it and I fix problems that arise as they arise and don’t need to take the bike apart or clean it on any regular interval. Bikes aren’t nearly as delicate as people make them out to be and, far too often, the “annual maintenance” is responsible for creating far more problems than it fixes.

In other words, constant fiddling leads to constant repair.

base2 

He said bikes never need "annual" maintenance, IIRC.
Giving a bike a full & complete tune up, cable change, bearing repack, etc...Every single year on March 3rd when it has sat in a garage next to a minivan for 360-odd days since the last "tune up" 'cause it got used once on a 3 day weekend isn't just silly; It's stupid.

A bike will tell you what it needs. When it needs this or that, do this or that.

RCMoeur 

Alas, I've lost count of the number of shops around here that have "eased out" their experienced mechanics and replaced them with the aforementioned snot-enhanced youth. I don't even bother going to the shop anymore where I bought my first good road bike, as I can expect either bewilderment or condescension from the staff, even though it's been owned by the same family for over a century. I could reply that I was lacing racing wheels well before they were born, but that would likely get a blank "OK, boomer" stare in response, in much the same way that my telling the Apple "genius" I was ResEditing 6.0.3 long before they were born has no effect.

That's why I really like a guy like Leon at Try Me Bicycle, who will listen, conjure up obscure parts from thin air, and politely point out any drawbacks with a particular idea and then say with a smile to bring it in after you've done it to see how it turned out. Either fortunately or unfortunately, he's not hiring, so every visit you get him as the boss, wrench, salesman, and flunky. Sun Cyclery is a bigger local shop, but still has some good folks on staff who share knowledge without attitude.

The funniest incident was about three decades ago when armed with a good bit of shop experience and a full awareness for the market I helped a good friend shop for a bicycle. We went into Swiss American Bicycle, looked around, and asked questions, and the owner thundered that "obviously I knew absolutely NOTHING about quality bicycles". We tried not to burst out laughing while leaving. They went under a few years ago - possibly due to this type of "customer service".

RCMoeur 

Perhaps a track bike with no brakes, cartridge bearings, belt drive, and solid tires could avoid routine maintenance.

If you hung it on the wall.

SoSmellyAir

I got one! Point to the lightly used (< 200 miles?), slightly dirty (wax residue) 11 speed cassette on my bike, and ask the Shade Tree Mechanic whether it is worn out. If he or she says yes because some teeth seem to be missing chunks of material, take bike back immediately.

But seriously, anything that I cannot figure out by diligent research and with everyone's help here on BF deserves attention at the LBS. Even though it is now a Trek shop, they are very knowledgeable and happy to work on my non-Trek bikes.

JoeTBM 

I found wearing a magnetic wrist band helpful for those and try to position that wrist under the shifter hopefully to catch the screw before it hits the ground bouncing off to oblivion.

soyabean

I know what I'm doing because I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

cyccommute 

I rub my screwdriver on the magnetic bar on each of work stands at my local co-op. The concrete floor at my local co-op is oddly magnetic. I discovered this when I dropped a magnetic utility pick on the floor and it stuck to the floor. I have no idea what was put in the concrete for the floor…it’s a slab floor…but it isn’t a wire system. Magnets stick all over the floor throughout the shop. It’s pretty strong too. Only not strong enough to keep little screws from bouncing.