rydabent

IMO some drivers and some cyclist are just alike. Some drivers think that cyclist should not be on their roads and streets. Some cycist whine about walkers and slow cyclist on MUPS. Really is there any difference between the two of them, and their attitude?

ZmanKC

A couple thousand pounds?

FBinNY 

There's no difference. People are who they are, and are the same way regardless of how they choose to get around. One of the ironies of the anti-driver stuff we see here on BF is that the vast bulk of cyclists are also motorists.

Marcus_Ti

The difference? Depending on the cyclist most are far better at knowing and acting on yield law than most motorists. Further, many like myself don't whine and cry about slow people on the MUP.

Rydabent I don't know if you traverse Our Fair City's MUTs during prime usage hours...but it is a mess of self-absorbed people and their elastic leashed terriers meandering all over and not sticking to their lane, and failing fantastically at understanding what "on your left" means and what it implies you should do.



I only get annoyed when adults who study yield law and should know what it means are idiots and throw it all out the window. It ain't rocket surgery. Keep to your lane. Do that and everyone will get along fine. Most people on MUPs however are not smart enough IRL to do that one thing. Fitness Chick and her BFF running right down the dotted line for example. You call out "On Your Left" to pass and they honestly cannot hear you because their earbud headphones are cranked so loud you can hear them 50ft away. Or the idiot who thought it was a good idea to tie their leash of their 100# German Shepard to their seatpost and take the dog for a bike and is everywhere but in their land holding their line....to name a few common scenarios I've seen.

rydabent

FYI of the little over 2000 miles I have cycled this year, probably 90% has been ridden on the 130 miles of trails here in Lincoln.

Now that being said, everyone has to know that I am retired, can ride the trails when everyone is working, and have little trouble with with walkers and people with dogs. I simply slow down and realize that the MUP needs to be SHARED, and I cant expect everyone to get out of my way. They have as much right to be there as I have.

baron von trail 

The only walkers and slow cyclists that annoy me are the ones who do not pay attention to their surroundings. Worst of all are the soccer moms leaving their cars who walk across the MUP toward the field without even bothering to look left or right.

italktocats

yes theyre the same, we are you and you are all together, or something

indyfabz

I drive and ride bikes, so I guess the answer is yes, at least in one sense.

AlmostTrick

Yes, some drivers and some cyclists are exactly alike.

Some drivers like to recline their seat way back, and some cyclists like to ride a bent.

yooperbiker

I have been yelled at for no good reason by passing cars when riding my bike, but never have I been yelled at by a cyclist passing my when I have been walking on a path. (excepting of course the "on your left" called out).

I-Like-To-Bike

What about "idiots" who repeatedly yell "on your left"at strangers even though they know bicycling jargon causes confusion and often provokes an unwanted response?

slimyfrog

Cyclist/motorist is a nonsensical distinction when it comes to predicting how responsibly a person will behave on the road.
Grumpy people stay grumpy, regardless of what vehicle you put them in or on. This perhaps being the exception.

Marcus_Ti

Sure they have a right to be there. Where did I say they didn't? I slow down too, it is the safe thing to do. Did I say I expected the MUT to not be shared and it is mine?

But I expect people to know and follow courtesy and yield law like they did for their driver's license exam they took when they were 16-18. Slower traffic keeps to the right. Don't drive your car into oncoming traffic in the opposing lane. Not that hard a pairing of concepts, that evidently is insanely difficult for people to transfer from their car to the MUP with marked lanes. And keep your damned dog under control and lose the damned elastic leash, if you cannot control your animal don't have it be a traffic hazard (black elastic leash taught across the entire trail barely visible-what could go wrong?). Does expecting people to follow the driver's manual and apply what they already know to an MUT really make me an angry driver hell bent on killing anyone who gets in my way whilst I'm texting my BFF on the wheel?


That wind is nasty out there today BTW. Oy.

"On your left", "passing left", "passing on your left", "excuse me"...you can say just about anything...and 90% of the time you won't be heard (people doing permanent hearing damage to their ears with earbuds) and the other 10% of the time the party who should be listening will react in exactly the undesired and unsafe manner. It gets to the point where it is safer and just as productive not to say anything at all-because odds are high you won't be heard and anything you say will cause the party to jump right into your path.

What would you rather I say that people will listen to and react to correctly most of the time? I'm open to suggestions. Seriously. I've tried every variation I can think of over the years after slowing down to sub-10kph behind a pedestrian or IOB and they never hear or at worst completely react incorrectly in a manner precisely opposite to what their driver's license schooling would ever teach them.

noisebeam

Avoid MUPs whenever possible. Otherwise slow and stop when needed.
One never knows what a young kid may do:


give a hello to announce yourself:

careful on blind corners, not everyone will take the tight:

Generally stop for pedestrians when required:

FBinNY 

We need to be real here. Regardless of legal definition, design intent or whatever, an MUP is basically a pedestrian path or linear park on which bicycles are also welcome. I know we all hope that it were different, but the reality is that pedestrians aren't vehicles, and therefore not amenable to any sort of regulation or order.

People visit the park or MUP for a stroll, to walk their dogs, to bring babies or children out into the fresh air, etc. They look at MUPs as a safe haven from traffic and related dangers, so they tend to see speeding cyclists as defeating the purpose. Children and casual cyclists riding at speeds under 10 or so mph are fine, but those who consider the MUP as some kind of road to be used to get from point A to B are out of step with what most other users think an MUP is all about.

But all is not lost. Pedestrians, their dogs and children rarely venture more than a mile or two from where they enter. So if there's an MUP that leaves town and heads out to the hinterlands, odds are that you won't see any pedestrians after the first mile or so, and the rest will be almost exclusively for bike use. The few pedestrians and joggers one meets will tend to be more serious "road" users and more likely to have some road discipline.

So, rather than get worked up over folks on the MUP, consider where and when, and plan and riding accordingly. There's a nice MUP I often use for my daily commute, in a five mile stretch there are places where I have to ride slowly because of other users, and stretches where it's wide open and I only need deal with a few inexperienced cyclists now and then.

I-Like-To-Bike

Don't say anything; ring a bicycle bell or a bulb bicycle horn (not an offensive air horn blaster). I've found they work just fine on MUPs in Philadelphia and even in light traffic. Always brings a smile too.

Paul Barnard

I slow, say "I am coming around your left side" and say "enjoy your walk" or "thank you" as I pass them slowly. Many times I announce my presence, the person doesn't hear me because of the buds. That's why I pass slowly. It has always served me well.

Paul Barnard

Sometimes there is a difference. Sometimes there's not. When I drive, I have no problem sharing the road with alert respectful cyclists. When I pedal, I have no problem sharing the path with alert courteous pedestrians.

AlmostTrick

"Hello" "Good morning" or some other such greeting works for me. I suppose if I spent a lot of time on MUP's I might get a bell. But I don't so I won't.

StephenH

Most of the cyclists I know are also drivers, so yes, they are exactly alike.

noisebeam

Having spent time both motoring and cycling with the same folks over the years and also hearing their motoring and cycling incident stories, I've noticed that good drivers are generally good drivers whether on bike or in car and the bad drivers drive both their car and bicycle badly.

jfowler85

Tell that to the strava fanboys.

B. Carfree

I know you're talking about the pragmatic aspects, but there's a different legal and historical reality (which doesn't actually change how things are, but is interesting nonetheless). Many, maybe even most, bike paths were constructed with transportation dollars for the specific purpose of getting people from A to B by means other than car. In some states, such as Oregon, they are explicitly defined as roads. (Oregon has a quirk in that pedestrians actually have zero legal right of way on a bike path, not that anyone is going to drive this point home by riding into someone, or so I hope).

Culturally, we have gone from bike paths to MUPs (MUTs, SUPs, whatever the jargon du jour) that diminish the ability of people to effectively ride on them. We seem headed for these being redefined as off-road sidewalks that prohibit bikes. In fact, a group of merchants along the waterfront in Portland, OR is pushing to do exactly that.

Of course none of that changes our moral obligation to not behave like asshats. Even though our local pedestrian critical mass along the bike paths can effectively blockade any and all cyclists, it's not really the end of the world to be considerate. They're just people who don't yet know how to help make those underbuilt paths work for everyone and yelling at them isn't going to make them want to cooperate.

FBinNY 

yes, there's a complicated and mixed history relating to how bicycle paths became MUPs. I'm sure there's all kinds of things that went on depending on location and time in history. We had a nice dedicated bike path built with CETA funds during the Carter administration. Over the years most sections became an MUP simply by attrition as pedestrians discovered it. I never figured out if they repurposed it at some time, or pedestrians simply moved in.

The reality is that nice urban park space where you can enjoy a scenic stroll is scarce, so regardless of intent, if you pave a nice path, people will find it, and adopt it as a their own. As cyclists, we can be angry, or resigned, but the pedestrians aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

noisebeam

Those videos I posted above (except last one) are from such a path/bridge. I find it useless for commuting as it carries so many pedestrians especially young ones as it connects two schools/parks.