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What can the E-assist option bring for bicycle touring.

Old 07-27-16, 09:05 AM
  #426  
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Originally Posted by DropBarFan View Post
Went for a ride on bike path yesterday & I noticed the "No Motorized Vehicles" sign. OTOH there's also signs prohibiting riding at night, both ignored w/no enforcement. On local bike path it's becoming more common to see e-bikers (generally commuters); so far all of the e-bikers have been polite & I've had no problems sharing path.
"No Motorized Vehicles" can be a confusing sign in relation to e-bikes. In some areas, even though they clearly have a motor, e-bikes fail to meet the legal definition of "motorized vehicle," and are technically considered a bicycle and allowed anywhere a bicycle can go. Other places are more literal when deciding what constitutes a motorized vehicle. It's possible that e-bikes you saw were operating legally. Although, as you say, without enforcement, they can put signs up that say whatever they want, and it won't much affect behavior. On the other hand, if some officer was moved to enforce the sign, it's not hard to imagine that they would also enforce it from a literal standpoint if they didn't know the what legal distinctions were made between bikes, e-bikes, and motorized vehicles.
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Old 07-27-16, 11:34 AM
  #427  
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There's a lot of confusion around but not here .........if its got a motor it isn't a bicycle. No need to check local bylaws, ordinances or EU directives.

Keep it simple folks and you can't go wrong.
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Old 07-27-16, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Rob_E View Post
"No Motorized Vehicles" can be a confusing sign in relation to e-bikes. In some areas, even though they clearly have a motor, e-bikes fail to meet the legal definition of "motorized vehicle," and are technically considered a bicycle and allowed anywhere a bicycle can go. Other places are more literal when deciding what constitutes a motorized vehicle.
257.33 “Motor vehicle” defined.
Sec. 33.

"Motor vehicle" means every vehicle that is self-propelled, but for purposes of chapter 4 of this act motor vehicle does not include industrial equipment such as a forklift, a front-end loader, or other construction equipment that is not subject to registration under this act. Motor vehicle does not include an electric patrol vehicle being operated in compliance with the electric patrol vehicle act, 1997 PA 55, MCL 257.1571 to 257.1577. Motor vehicle does not include an electric personal assistive mobility device. Motor vehicle does not include an electric carriage. Motor vehicle does not include a commercial quadricycle.
257.13c “Electric personal assistive mobility device” defined.
Sec. 13c.

“Electric personal assistive mobility device” means a self-balancing nontandem 2-wheeled device, designed to transport only 1 person at a time, having an electrical propulsion system with average power of 750 watts or 1 horsepower and a maximum speed on a paved level surface of not more than 15 miles per hour.
In Michigan, they must be "self propelled", and specifically exempt "electronic personal assistive mobility devices". The law would indicate that pedal assist is therefore not a motor vehicle, straight up throttle with no pedaling required is a motor vehicle, and anything that is less than 750W/1HP and cannot exceed 15MPH under motor power is expressly NOT a motor vehicle.
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Old 07-27-16, 12:01 PM
  #429  
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Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
There's a lot of confusion around but not here .........if its got a motor it isn't a bicycle. No need to check local bylaws, ordinances or EU directives.

Keep it simple folks and you can't go wrong.
Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
In Michigan, they must be "self propelled", and specifically exempt "electronic personal assistive mobility devices". The law would indicate that pedal assist is therefore not a motor vehicle, straight up throttle with no pedaling required is a motor vehicle, and anything that is less than 750W/1HP and cannot exceed 15MPH under motor power is expressly NOT a motor vehicle.
Exactly. You can keep it as simple as you want in your own mind, but the law is another matter. If you see someone on an e-bike in a "no motorized vehicles" area, they aren't necessarily breaking the law, no matter how simple you are.
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Old 07-27-16, 06:16 PM
  #430  
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Originally Posted by Rob_E View Post
Exactly. You can keep it as simple as you want in your own mind, but the law is another matter. If you see someone on an e-bike in a "no motorized vehicles" area, they aren't necessarily breaking the law, no matter how simple you are.
Exactly, The law sees thing differently than some people do around here, and it's not because E-Bikes are bicycles it's because E-bikes can be used as bicycles... There is a difference, and yet the using of E-Bikes can be same/is the same as regular bicycles and thus can be ridden on most trails that say, "no motorized traffic" without any problems...

Last edited by 350htrr; 07-27-16 at 07:16 PM. Reason: add stuff
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Old 07-27-16, 08:06 PM
  #431  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
This is not a thread about debating whether e bikes are bikes. It is about whether threads related to touring that use an e bike but relate to the touring side should be allowed here and what they might add to the global conversation. The answer appears to be yes, according to the mods, and it allows some people to participate and share their unique stories.
no and yes. over the course of 17 pages this thread has incorporated multiple themes.
one of which is a debate as to whether e-assist-bikes are properly classified as "bicycles."
without re-reading the entire 17 pages, i see one mod deleted some nasty stuff around
post #340, but in no way said "we the moderators hereby declare ebikes to be bicycles".
seemed to me more of an acceptance that touring can be done on a device resembling
a true bicycle, and that there are many areas of mutual concern, so please be polite.


Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
If anyone has a "save the children" mentality, in the correct usage of the phrase...
the "save the children" maneuver is a debating tactic often used to shut down
debate. it is an appeal to emotion and feelings rather than to facts. the point is to
add "sob stories" (as another poster put it) that may be completely irrelevant to the
topic, but that will be used to show the inhumanity and insensitivity of the opponent.
the other guy is dared to reply with facts, hurting the feelings of some third party, and
thereby showing himself to be evil incarnate.


Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
The debate about whether ebikes are bikes should perhaps be brought up to Bike Forums directly though I suspect it might be a case of the horse out the gate already.
i'm sure they are aware. there is a subforum for ebikes. ebikes are permitted here
due to their similary to true bicycles.

you may call ebikes bicycles if you wish, but that won't make it so.
they aren't quite mopeds, yet they aren't true bicycles. they fit
in their own category between the two. sort of an evolutionary
missing link on the march to goldwings. that's not a bad thing, and
it doesn't make it a lesser creation. but they are different and it won't
hurt to acknowledge that reality.


Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
[*] and at least two mods have posted into it (by my count) to correct someone who was saying the thread didn't belong and/or arguing e bikes weren't bikes by posting random pics of motor bikes ripped off the net........The fact that you are using a pic of a gas powered bike to argue against e bikes doesn't help your cause either. You can try to find a more appropriate pic but then I would just refer you to the bulleted points above.
doesn't help my case? silly, it makes my case! i was argueing the
slippery slope......if you "feel" that an electric assist bicycle is still
a bicycle, then we must also consider the gas assist bicycle as well.
you declared it was futuristic fairytales. i posted the first five of my
google search for "gas assist bicycle." the "pic" was the forum
software showing a screenshot of a youtube video.

trying to get across is that some point these devices will appear on
this very forum. a gas-assist bicycle that meets your requirements,
no throttle - max % assist - max power output, either exists or can
easily be built.

for $120 bucks you can snag a 49cc engine that bolts onto the
seattube of your stock bicycle. easy enough to set it up similar
to the e-assit bike. my question to you is....will you
accept a gasoline assist bicycle (which meets all your criteria of
the e-assist-bike with the exception of electric power) as just
a bicycle? or will you exclude it, 'cause, well...it runs on gasoline?
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Old 07-27-16, 11:33 PM
  #432  
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Originally Posted by saddlesores View Post
no and yes. over the course of 17 pages this thread has incorporated multiple themes.
one of which is a debate as to whether e-assist-bikes are properly classified as "bicycles."
without re-reading the entire 17 pages, i see one mod deleted some nasty stuff around
post #340, but in no way said "we the moderators hereby declare ebikes to be bicycles".
seemed to me more of an acceptance that touring can be done on a device resembling
a true bicycle, and that there are many areas of mutual concern, so please be polite.

"This is not a thread about debating whether e bikes are bikes. It is about whether threads related to touring that use an e bike but relate to the touring side should be allowed here and what they might add to the global conversation. The answer appears to be yes, according to the mods, and it allows some people to participate and share their unique stories."

You respond to this quote and then say, "so be polite." I'm not sure how more polite that response could have been?



the "save the children" maneuver is a debating tactic often used to shut down
debate. it is an appeal to emotion and feelings rather than to facts. the point is to
add "sob stories" (as another poster put it) that may be completely irrelevant to the
topic, but that will be used to show the inhumanity and insensitivity of the opponent.
the other guy is dared to reply with facts, hurting the feelings of some third party, and
thereby showing himself to be evil incarnate.

This from wikipedia: "Think of the children" has been invoked by censorship proponents to shield children from perceived danger.[7][8] Community, Space and Online Censorship (2009) noted that classifying children in an infantile manner, as innocents in need of protection, is a form of obsession over the concept of purity".

Kind of what I said about people wanting to limit discussion here because it will corrupt the purity of the forum and members won't be able to think critically for themselves.

As to sob stories completely irrelevant to the topic: Would that be real stories told by real people about riding real bikes on real tours or imaginary stories about gas powered bikes made up in an e bike discussion. Not sure which? I am.


i'm sure they are aware. there is a subforum for ebikes. ebikes are permitted here
due to their similary to true bicycles.

you may call ebikes bicycles if you wish, but that won't make it so.

Nor will your saying they aren't make them not so. However, in this context, in this forum, it would appear the moderation team is willing to entertain them as such so the only thing we need to do is not to disrupt those threads maliciously or be reported for trolling.

they aren't quite mopeds, yet they aren't true bicycles. they fit
in their own category between the two. sort of an evolutionary
missing link on the march to goldwings. that's not a bad thing, and
it doesn't make it a lesser creation. but they are different and it won't
hurt to acknowledge that reality.

The only ones who seem to have any sort of trouble coming to grips with acknowledging anything are those who are against them. No one has tried to pretend they are anything but e bikes. They are described as e bikes and I imagine most people know what that means, electrically assisted bikes; so your argument about acknowledgement is specious.

What some are struggling with is acceptance. That's not my or your problem to solve. People don't need to accept them, just accept that others may accept them. Just like I don't like olives but accept that my wife does. I don't have to eat them or participate in online discussions about them if I choose not to.
And no one here will be forced to participate in e bike touring discussions if they don't want to. Really isn't that fair enough?

doesn't help my case? silly, it makes my case! i was argueing the
slippery slope......if you "feel" that an electric assist bicycle is still
a bicycle, then we must also consider the gas assist bicycle as well.
you declared it was futuristic fairytales. i posted the first five of my
google search for "gas assist bicycle." the "pic" was the forum
software showing a screenshot of a youtube video.

Uh.. you are in an e assist thread so you say you must also discuss gas assist and google gas assist and post an image. And you don't feel there's anything wrong with that logic? That's the reasoning that led BA to post a bunch of images of motorcycles which a mod removed because they were... irrelevant.

trying to get across is that some point these devices will appear on
this very forum. a gas-assist bicycle that meets your requirements,
no throttle - max % assist - max power output, either exists or can
easily be built.

for $120 bucks you can snag a 49cc engine that bolts onto the
seattube of your stock bicycle. easy enough to set it up similar
to the e-assit bike. my question to you is....will you
accept a gasoline assist bicycle (which meets all your criteria of
the e-assist-bike with the exception of electric power) as just
a bicycle? or will you exclude it, 'cause, well...it runs on gasoline?

Here in lies the rub.

I really don't waste any time trying to define what is and isn't a "true" bicycle. Could care less because it's a fruitless exercise. True for who? The 20 something fit rider or the double amputee?

I like stories. Stories about real people doing real things. If they resonate I listen, if the don't I don't. Some of you are soooo fixated on the mode of transportation that you ignore the real stories and people behind them. This fixation on a hunk of metal (or CF I suppose) leads people to call strangers lazy or cheaters or what they are doing sob stories.

And the funniest thing is that everyone's "true" bicycle is different anyway. One person on the forum rides a trike recumbent, another a fixie, someone else a custom CF job, me a converted mtb.

Some imagine that what binds us all is the fact that we put 100% of our effort into pedaling but not me. It's the underlying love of touring. It just so happens that I choose a bike to do it with. I like landscapes, shooting video and stills, the sounds, the people. Those things that we talk about here interest me. When I hear about someone who lost 1/3 of his heart muscle but still gets out there with the use of an e assist, that interests me. Listening to someone complain about cheaters being lazy on a holiday doesn't.

That guy touring on a fixie is putting out more effort than me, that girl who rides around the world puts out more effort than me, that team on the tandem splits the effort in half as do the people who have a van carry all their gear. Really, I don't spend any time dwelling on those differences if the story about touring resonates. That one more voice is someone who uses an e bike to tour neither makes nor breaks the bank. I will judge that story on how it resonates as well because I'm mature enough and know my own mind well enough not to be afraid I can't do so without someone keeping me safe from hearing it. And, respectfully enough it seems, I extend that same belief in ability to other forum members as well.

Imagine that. I'm arguing that people here have the intelligence to make up their own minds about which threads interest them and which they want to participate in.
Response in bold.

Last edited by Happy Feet; 07-27-16 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 07-28-16, 12:22 AM
  #433  
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I'm pro e-bike touring and I have type 2 diabetes. Most people think you have to control what you eat, which is true, but the opposite is also true. Twice while touring my blood sugar got so low my liver released sugars in my system to help out my body. My poor pancreas can't release enough insulin to counter act that and my levels have gotten close to 500. 700 and above I am told to go to the hospital. It happens without warning and I have to stop right there, go no further. Body tingles, no energy at all and is dangerous at those levels.

I added a 750 watt motor to the front wheel that I use sparingly, as I need it. I built a custom pannier that holds a 300 watt fold out solar panel. When I stop for lunch I toss it out and let it charge the battery. While camping at night, I use that same battery to to charge all my devices which are all USB and an inverter for the laptop. Love having the excess power at the campsite.

I try and ride most of my miles without motor assist. But as I need it, I turn it on. I sometimes get dirty looks from the all peddle power touring folks when they see the motor, but they don't know my story, and thats OK. I weigh 265 pounds and with all my touring gear and solar stuff I'm peeling almost 450lbs. Here are some photos of my system.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
img1.jpg (96.9 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg
img2.jpg (94.7 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg
img3.jpg (97.7 KB, 63 views)

Last edited by lwik; 07-28-16 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 07-28-16, 01:02 AM
  #434  
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Originally Posted by lwik View Post
I'm pro e-bike touring and I have type 2 diabetes.
I'm anti E-bike touring for young healthy people.
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Old 07-28-16, 01:30 AM
  #435  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
Response in bold.
Don't put your reply inside the quote, it makes it difficult for others to respond to you.

From your response.
I really don't waste any time trying to define what is and isn't a "true" bicycle. Could care less because it's a fruitless exercise. True for who? The 20 something fit rider or the double amputee?
True for anyone riding a bicycle that hasn't been motorised by adding a motor. Doesn't matter if they're fit and young, a double amputee or a circus chimpanzee.

It's not about the rider, it's all about the bicycle.
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Old 07-28-16, 02:08 AM
  #436  
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Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
It's not about the rider, it's all about the bicycle.
Awesome! Thank you for clearly stating the counter point to this argument. I could not have said it better myself.
In my world it's not about the bike, it's about the people who ride them. We each are free to make our choices and sound ridiculous accordingly.

Thinking a chimp would care if its bike was e assist

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Old 07-28-16, 02:40 AM
  #437  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
Awesome! Thank you for clearly stating the counter point to this argument. I could not have said it better myself.
In my world it's not about the bike, it's about the people who ride them. We each are free to make our choices.

The question is; if you are allowed to participate in threads that reflect your values, will you extend the same courtesy to others who wish to express theirs? Or will you feel the need to enter into their discussions just to voice your opposition to their values? You can see the slippery slope this is leading towards...
Lots of people in 'Touring' talk about 'tours' they've done that I don't agree are 'tours' even if they've been on bicycles. I don't start haranguing them, I just ignore them.

Just to remind people I'm on record in this thread as being in favour of allowing Ebikers talk about their E-bike tours in 'Touring'.
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Old 07-28-16, 08:24 AM
  #438  
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Originally Posted by lwik View Post
I'm pro e-bike touring and I have type 2 diabetes. Most people think you have to control what you eat, which is true, but the opposite is also true. Twice while touring my blood sugar got so low my liver released sugars in my system to help out my body. My poor pancreas can't release enough insulin to counter act that and my levels have gotten close to 500. 700 and above I am told to go to the hospital. It happens without warning and I have to stop right there, go no further. Body tingles, no energy at all and is dangerous at those levels.

I added a 750 watt motor to the front wheel that I use sparingly, as I need it. I built a custom pannier that holds a 300 watt fold out solar panel. When I stop for lunch I toss it out and let it charge the battery. While camping at night, I use that same battery to to charge all my devices which are all USB and an inverter for the laptop. Love having the excess power at the campsite.

I try and ride most of my miles without motor assist. But as I need it, I turn it on. I sometimes get dirty looks from the all peddle power touring folks when they see the motor, but they don't know my story, and thats OK. I weigh 265 pounds and with all my touring gear and solar stuff I'm peeling almost 450lbs. Here are some photos of my system.
Very interesting. Do you really mean 450lb's or is that a typo?

I'm curious about the solar panels as I just bought a smaller set up ( Instapark Mercury 10) to recharge my devices on my next tour (phone, Ipod, camera, gopro). I've wanted to get into solar for a while and am keen to see how it goes. https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B006ZSE6TM/...185360_TE_dp_1

What % do you think you use e assist overall and does your setup completely recharge the bike each day? Earlier in the thread we were talking about some people who were trying to make self supporting solar input arrays but they seemed to have panels out all the time as they rode (perhaps they used more assist and needed more recharge capacity).

Last edited by Happy Feet; 07-28-16 at 08:29 AM.
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Old 07-28-16, 08:28 AM
  #439  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
In my world it's not about the bike, it's about the people who ride them. We each are free to make our choices and sound ridiculous accordingly.
It is how I feel as well. I fully understand there are people to whom the touring is nothing but the bicycling, just as I understand there are people to whom the bicycle itself is just a vehicle used to get around It just makes no sense to have such a vigorous objection to someone doing things differently than you when you are in no direct competition with them.

Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
Lots of people in 'Touring' talk about 'tours' they've done that I don't agree are 'tours' even if they've been on bicycles. I don't start haranguing them, I just ignore them.
Which, IMO, is the absolutely correct answer.
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Old 07-28-16, 08:34 AM
  #440  
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Originally Posted by lwik View Post
I'm pro e-bike touring and I have type 2 diabetes. Most people think you have to control what you eat, which is true, but the opposite is also true. Twice while touring my blood sugar got so low my liver released sugars in my system to help out my body. My poor pancreas can't release enough insulin to counter act that and my levels have gotten close to 500. 700 and above I am told to go to the hospital. It happens without warning and I have to stop right there, go no further. Body tingles, no energy at all and is dangerous at those levels.
Gotta get those numbers under control! I'm Type I myself, you're right, it does suck when it hits. Thankfully, being on insulin I have a lot more precise control than some of my Type II relatives on pills alone. Biking really helps to keep the numbers under control!
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Old 07-28-16, 08:37 AM
  #441  
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Yep, I like Caretaker's last point too.

I sometimes think the bicycling is part of the tour as well but with different people how that bicycling is done can be a curiosity. If I see someone with no legs riding a bike you can be sure I'm looking twice or asking a question or two about how that all works. I looked at a downhill mtb for a double amputee on the Varna website and my son and I even had a discussion about what perceived needs would need to be addressed (he downhills). Likewise, when I hear about a guy losing 1/3 of his heart muscle but still trying to ride with his friends, I'm curious how he achieves that. If the answer is e assist adapted to his bicycle I don't get worked up about it.
Now we have a guy who has diabetes and could not tour if not for e assist. How does he do it? To argue about his bike misses the human story or even how he cycles. The nit picking misses the wider, more interesting story.
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Old 07-28-16, 09:21 AM
  #442  
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What this dislike for E-Bikes touring is about in general is passion... If one has a passion for bicycle touring and sees other people on an E-Assist bike doing the same thing, they react in a knee-jerk fashion and decide it's a fail, it's a cheat, it's a non-bicycle tour, (technically correct) but overall wrong. IMO People tour for different reasons, for some it's all about doing it for themselves, for others they just want to be with that other person and with the assist of an E-Bike they can go along on a tour and be with that person, others may need some assistance because of medical reasons, others just want it to be more fun less work but like touring...
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Old 07-28-16, 10:20 AM
  #443  
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Q @lwik I have been considering that exact same 300 watt folding solar panel for 2 years now, but the price... Anyways how good IS it for actual real life touring? See guys, that is the type of questions that will be asked in an E-Bike touring thread...
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Old 07-28-16, 11:14 AM
  #444  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
Very interesting. Do you really mean 450lb's or is that a typo?

I'm curious about the solar panels as I just bought a smaller set up ( Instapark Mercury 10) to recharge my devices on my next tour (phone, Ipod, camera, gopro). I've wanted to get into solar for a while and am keen to see how it goes. https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B006ZSE6TM/...185360_TE_dp_1

What % do you think you use e assist overall and does your setup completely recharge the bike each day? Earlier in the thread we were talking about some people who were trying to make self supporting solar input arrays but they seemed to have panels out all the time as they rode (perhaps they used more assist and needed more recharge capacity).
450 was what I said. My Surly Ogre is 45, I'm 265, solar panel, motor and pannier I made for it 50. Then I have my camping & cooking gear, laptop, cloths taking up another 90 lbs. Even with this weight on flat surfaces I still maintain 10+mph without the motor.

The e assist I only ever use on hills as needed and also if I ever have a blood sugar blow out again. I don't know much about the smaller solar panels on amazon, but I know inch per inch comparing mine to the one you listed, mine produce more power. My panels are made by Sun Power and are over 24% efficient. Standard panels are 12%-17% on average from some research.

But in my case you need to have a DC to DC charge converter between the solar panel and battery, another piece of equipment. It takes the 12V from the panels and up converts it to 58v to charge the battery, since that is the peak voltage of the battery. The good thing is it is 95% efficient. So per 100 watts I only loose 5 watts in the conversion. Converting from DC panels to an AC inverter and then back to DC for a battery charger I would have lost to much.

This company is a good place to start, they have the cheapest panels that I found. Foldable Solar Panels

Your last question just depends on how much you use it. I don't start my day off with a full charge since I used the battery the night before at camp to charge up all of my electronics from it. Solar panels are at there best mid day starting where I am in Sacramento CA. around 11:30a. That is when I take amour hour more lunch to rest and recharge.
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Old 07-28-16, 11:22 AM
  #445  
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
Gotta get those numbers under control! I'm Type I myself, you're right, it does suck when it hits. Thankfully, being on insulin I have a lot more precise control than some of my Type II relatives on pills alone. Biking really helps to keep the numbers under control!
I totally agree. I stopped taking my pills and control it through biking when touring. I ran tests and check my blood sugar every hour while touring for a while, before the motor assist. With gear on the bike, I was burning about 50 points an hour on average.

So if I was 120, and that is a good range, I would be at risk an hour later of blowing it out and my liver dumping sugars in to my system. While riding I try and keep my blood sugar around 160 to be safe.

Diabetes defiantly adds another layer of complexity to touring.
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Old 07-28-16, 11:37 AM
  #446  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
Q @lwik I have been considering that exact same 300 watt folding solar panel for 2 years now, but the price... Anyways how good IS it for actual real life touring? See guys, that is the type of questions that will be asked in an E-Bike touring thread...
Like I mentioned above, E assist depends on the person. I think people view it as an all or nothing. They assume that if you have e assist you always use it. For me, if I don't need it, I don't use it. Also the less I use it the more power I have at night to charge my USB devices. You can get the panels for $1600, which I mentioned in a post above. I think they charge extra for a charge controller.

I remodeled my house and sold it last year, which is why I was able to build my ultimate touring / bug out bike. I have the motor on the front wheel because I have a Rolhoff speed up and a Gates Carbon drive in the rear.
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Old 07-28-16, 02:25 PM
  #447  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
Exactly, The law sees thing differently than some people do around here, and it's not because E-Bikes are bicycles it's because E-bikes can be used as bicycles... There is a difference, and yet the using of E-Bikes can be same/is the same as regular bicycles and thus can be ridden on most trails that say, "no motorized traffic" without any problems...
I interpret the laws a little differently. I don't believe the laws say "used as a bicycle." I believe most either say or imply that e-bike can be treated/classified like a bicycle. E-bikes are still e-bikes, but those meeting certain requirements can be treated like a bicycle in specific situations, e.g., use of bike paths, bike lanes, registration, license requirements etc.

Some e-bikes' use/privileges are the same as a bicycle, but they are not bicycles in the traditional sense.

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Old 07-28-16, 02:33 PM
  #448  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
Q @lwik I have been considering that exact same 300 watt folding solar panel for 2 years now, but the price... Anyways how good IS it for actual real life touring? See guys, that is the type of questions that will be asked in an E-Bike touring thread...
Wouldn't you think the next 3 posts would have been more appropriate in the e-bike thread.

I've been pretty neutral, but once it looks like people are in agreement one side or the other shifts gears, and come back with the same retort used 42 posts ago; or in this case agreeing that "e-bike" technical talk may not be appropriate in the touring forum, and then have several posts doing just that.

That is just my opinion. I really don't care what people ride; I just find it interesting the gyrations that have been going on to justify choices.

I apologize 350htrr, I missed the "e" in the E-bike touring forum in one of your posts.

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Old 07-28-16, 02:57 PM
  #449  
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What causes type 2 diabetes?
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Old 07-28-16, 03:42 PM
  #450  
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I'm in favor of the mods moving e-touring topics to the electric bikes subforum. E-touring has unique aspects not generally applicable to bike touring. Nothing against e-touring in and of itself, but it is important to make a distinction between bike touring, which this subforum focuses on, and other types of activities that may appear similar, but are really quite different.
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