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What can the E-assist option bring for bicycle touring.

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What can the E-assist option bring for bicycle touring.

Old 07-15-16, 04:59 PM
  #126  
Happy Feet
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I agree completely. We should encourage the whole spectrum as well because really, what we do is a minute percentage of what most others do.
That some people think E biking is only partial exercise compared to the full exercise that manual biking offers misses the point that most (adult North Americans at least) do no exercise. Partial is better than none in my books. As well, once you get past the modus operandi argument, all the other benefits of bike touring come into place. Cheap transportation, fresh air, visceral experience of the landscape etc...

As an example, I just looked up renting a small motor home for two (converted van style) for 7 days from Vancouver to Calgary: $2270.20, not including gas and extra Km fees. Add to that RV camp site fees and you are at $3000+ easy.

If you could buy a tour capable E bike for say $1500 that would last at least 5 years (for example) that would be $300/year X 2 = $600 travel transport cost (plus tent camping fees). Not bad for those who are on a budget but not ready to commit to a full on manual bike trip of that length.
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Old 07-16-16, 12:19 AM
  #127  
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Lots of different ways to tour, and lots of different bicycles to tour on. Personally I wouldn't run want to run out of juice in the middle of nowhere, and then have to drag that much extra wt. around. And they cost too much for me. I looked a little bit and a lot more than $1,500.
How do they handle in power off mode?

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Old 07-16-16, 01:39 AM
  #128  
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The one HaiBike I tried was only a few pounds heavier than my touring lht. These days the battery tech with lipo batteries is so advanced that they really don't add that much weight. And if juice was an issue, I'd just carry a spare battery. They load up from any socket and at least the routes we've been on are stuffed with e-bike loading portals.

In terms of handling, I don't think you could notice a difference.
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Old 07-16-16, 02:05 AM
  #129  
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They're cool and fun to ride. You get the sensation without the perspiration.

I've seen the future and it's awesome.
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Old 07-16-16, 06:20 AM
  #130  
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I have read the thread with hope and despair. I wish some of the naysayers would just go watch TV and leave the thread open to constructive comments.

I have a wife with a bad knee and hip. I bought her an e-bike so she could enjoy the same sense of riding that I enjoy. Granted, she is more apt to credit card tour than to tent camp...., but to that end, we have not toured together. What an e-bike does enable is opportunity. Opportunity to participate if one so choses to.

What I would be interested in learning about in regards to e-bike touring is stuff about equipment efficiencies. How can one maximize the weight to distance traveled quotient. Carry an extra battery in addition to your gear? Charging during lunch breaks? What type of battery systems are better for touring in different parts of the world (plugging your charger into the wall in Germany may be different than in Texas).

I once read a blog on Crazy Guy on a Bike about a dad who wanted to join his son on the TransAm. He had historical issues with knee problems his entire life. Bad genetics I guess. An e-bike with pedal assist allowed him to create the memories that otherwise would have been lost.

My main point is that different folks will utilize different tools to capture enjoyment in life. Opening up touring experiences on a conventional bike or an e-bike or an RV with hub and spoke rides..., all accomplish the same thing; capturing memories that have more value than one could imagine.

I am still working on the right formula for me and my wife. An e-bike was an option for me to explore. Have not found the magic yet, but at least I am trying.
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Old 07-16-16, 07:51 AM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by Fullcount View Post
I have read the thread with hope and despair. I wish some of the naysayers would just go watch TV and leave the thread open to constructive comments. . .

My main point is that different folks will utilize different tools to capture enjoyment in life. Opening up touring experiences on a conventional bike or an e-bike or an RV with hub and spoke rides..., all accomplish the same thing; capturing memories that have more value than one could imagine. . .
Well said, what works for one doesn't work for every one, I also wish posters would either offer constructive comments or just move on . . .

E-bikes? Never thought about them one way or another, but I can see why you tried one for your wife.
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Old 07-16-16, 09:47 AM
  #132  
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The wife and I have gone on 2 E-Bike tours (trips) together, about 850Km each. We took out camper as our sag vehicle so one of us drove and one of us rode the bike alternating, so each of us actually only road about 425Km each trip. We used the solar panel on the camper to re-charge the batteries every day never plugging into a wall socket the whole trip... so Yes it can be done using a folding solar panel the size of a computer bag that you can carry on the bicycle if you want to go solo, but they are big $$$. Or you can carry a spare battery but then you need to plug in somewhere...

We can easily get 120Km the wife, to 160 Km me, per charge out of a battery depending on how much you pedal, if I don't pedal and use motor only I would only be able to get about 30Km per charge, so 30Km is about the total assistance I can expect from my 350 BionX set up per charge out of the total 160Km ridden, same for the wife 30Km of assistance per 120Km ridden. As for riding the bike without power, yes you can, it's just like riding a regular bike no real difference at all, with my set up, tho there can be depending on the system, some of them have very noticeable drag so one needs to test/find out if out first before purchase...


EDIT: So this is how it breaks down in our case...

Manufacturer's numbers; generally work out to 30Km per 100Kms traveled. =30% assistance would be used.

Wife's numbers; generally seem to work out to 30 Km per 120Kms travelled. = 25% assistance used.

My numbers; generally seem to work out to. 30Km per 160Kms travelled. = 19% assistance used.

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Old 07-16-16, 11:41 AM
  #133  
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I have also done three tours on a regular bicycle and one on an E-Bicycle where I rode the whole way, also about 850Km each, a good distance for two week holidays it seems... Comparing the two different ways of doing it (assisted E-Bike, or not assisted normal mountain bike), I must say it was way more "rewarding" doing it all myself (pedaling 100 %) But more enjoyable sharing the riding experience with someone else who couldn't have done the ride without the E-Bikes assistance...
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Old 07-16-16, 01:07 PM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by Fullcount View Post
...I have a wife with a bad knee and hip. I bought her an e-bike so she could enjoy the same sense of riding that I enjoy. Granted, she is more apt to credit card tour than to tent camp...., but to that end, we have not toured together. What an e-bike does enable is opportunity. Opportunity to participate if one so choses to.

What I would be interested in learning about in regards to e-bike touring is stuff about equipment efficiencies. How can one maximize the weight to distance traveled quotient. Carry an extra battery in addition to your gear? Charging during lunch breaks? What type of battery systems are better for touring in different parts of the world (plugging your charger into the wall in Germany may be different than in Texas).

I am still working on the right formula for me and my wife. An e-bike was an option for me to explore. Have not found the magic yet, but at least I am trying.
Congratulations on finding a bike for your wife that will hopefully have her riding alongside you - with a big smile on her face - for years to come. What a wonderful hubby you are!

Some of your questions may well be answered better in the ebike forum, but for now I have some suggestions for you based on my own experience with distance riding a geared front hub w/throttle.

First, I'm going to assume you got her a pedal assist? If so, then the "equipment efficiencies" will be determined by what level of assist she asks for to keep up with you (assuming you ride faster than she does), what kind of terrain you expect during your ride, and what the rated capacity of the battery is (10 mile, 20 mile, 40 mile) for that bike, and (of course) the miles you intend to travel.

Most PAS ebikes come with an LED display to allow a rider to keep track of the charge left in their battery. Next time you go out for a training ride together, first scope out the elevations so you will know the amount of climbing you'll both be facing, then see what level of assist she asks the bike for in order to (without overextending herself) keep up with you, both on the flat, and on the hills. Doing this a few times in different terrain, and with different length of miles, should give you a baseline for how much assist she needs to maintain your pace, and how her bike handles the output of power. That way you can determine if a 2nd battery is needed to be carried, or not - again, depending upon the miles you intend to cover, and the hills.

A super big plus to her having e-assist is she will be able to travel at your speed. Most hubby and wife touring teams that I've met and talked to have always had the hubby laughingly point to his wife and say "we go at HER speed" (ie: the slower rider) when it comes to purely mechanical bikes. In your case, however, her bike will put her on equal footing with you, which means you'll be able to optimize your pace without worrying about her getting tired or stressed or left behind. More often than not she may well end up in front of you so that you can draft off her, thus making your ride much easier and her bike a 2-for-1 machine. Sweet, huh?

Some of the newer battery technology allows for faster charging, so one item she should always carry in her panniers is a charger, and possibly a lightweight household 15' extension cord. Very small items that are fairly light weight. When you stop for lunch along the way, simply ask if you can plug in, and then take your time enjoying lunch. Most fast food places, and even regular restaurants, will have an outlet they will share with you, especially considering your wife's condition. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't fall all over themselves to give you some free electricity. Ideally, you should have a separate charger for each battery carried - that way, at night when you are in your hotel, you can half your charging time by doing both at once. It is very rare, unless you are stealth camping which I'm sure your wife will glare at you and say "not on your life, buster. We're finding a hotel!" that you lack a place to charge all your essentials - gps, phone, ipod, batteries, etc. I have heard of riders who will use the outdoor plugs for soda machines to charge up their items. Not judging, but I'd rather ask first.

Range anxiety is a big issue for a rider who is new to touring on an ebike. So do your homework at home first, find the bike's range and limits, and her comfort zone for length of time sitting in the saddle and peddling along, and once she is used to her bike and its capabilities on hills, and distance, she will feel far more comfortable in knowing she won't be stranded.

If you do go to Europe, simply rent a bike for her there. That should solve any of your "overseas" issues, plus it is far more common to see/rent ebikes over there than here.

Best of luck to you. I hope it all works out, and that she ends up loving her bike, and loving touring with you.

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Old 07-16-16, 01:58 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by Fullcount View Post
I once read a blog on Crazy Guy on a Bike about a dad who wanted to join his son on the TransAm. He had historical issues with knee problems his entire life. Bad genetics I guess. An e-bike with pedal assist allowed him to create the memories that otherwise would have been lost.
I want to clarify, since it's been mentioned, that I don't allow e-bike journals on crazyguyonabike. My opinion is, and has always been, that putting any type of motor on a bicycle changes the equation in such a fundamental way that it's no longer "bicycle" touring. The thing is, once you have a motor, any motor, then it becomes very difficult to know where to draw the line. Sure, e-assist is just the tip, but then the lines are pretty blurry all the way up to full-fledged motorcycles. Right now I see arguments based on disability and accessibility, which is insidious because I can guarantee that over time, these e-assist motors and batteries will become more and more efficient. Where do we stop? Drawing arbitrary lines of "oh well you still have to pedal x amount" is going to be ever shifting, and if we move the goal posts based on appeals of wanting to be able to accompany your spouse, then the whole concept of "bicycle touring" has lost all meaning. Once we let political correctness and "let's include everybody" rule the conversation, then the space called "bicycle touring" ceases to have any meaning.

Drawing the line at "any type of motor" is much clearer, and, I thought, obvious, but it's equally obvious from this discussion that not all feel that way. I understand, but I want to say that it's not about hate, and it's sad that the people who think that motors have no place in "bicycle touring" have been shouted down, browbeaten, and labeled as trolls. The argument against e-bikes is simple, and it's not trolling - it's just calling to what many of us thought was a fundamental and self-evident part of what "bicycle touring" means: No motors allowed.

Some will argue that if you disallow e-bikes then you might as well disallow credit card touring, or supported tours. No. As long as you are riding a bicycle, which has no motor, then you can be on a racing bike for all I care, it doesn't matter how much gear you carry. You're still riding a bicycle.

And others have argued that having gears on the bike somehow means that you are getting "help" and so why not also allow e-assist - it's the same thing, right? No. Gears are just a mechanical advantage that doesn't put any external power into the system. In any case, the length of your cranks (and legs) also affect the gearing of your bike. This is different from having an external motor. And arguments about how you put 70% and the motor gives you 30%, so if you don't pedal then you don't go anywhere... so what? You're still getting help from an external motor. There's no way around that. I might as well argue "why not just take the motor off completely and then accept that you'll be going 30% less distance in a day - but the distance you do go will mean more, since you did it ALL under your own steam". Which is what, I thought, bicycle touring was supposed to be all about.

But again, this isn't about hate. It is, mainly, just a categorization issue. I allow e-bike journals on crazyguyonabike's sister site (which uses the exact same code and layout), topicwise.com. Currently most of those e-bike journals are on the general 'travel' topic, but the lack of a specific e-bike topic is mainly due to a failure on my part to have completed all the work I need to do in order to created all the myriad of topics that I want to have on there. I am in the process now of trying to get to the deep back-end work I need to do in the database and code that will allow me to be able to create a much more inclusive and broad range of topics there, one of which will definitely be e-bikes. I think it's a very intriguing area, and very encouraging for areas like commuting and local travel from home. It's just that I see bicycle touring as not being about having a motor on the bike, and so crazyguyonabike is not the place for those journals. Topicwise is. I know some say that being sent to topicwise is like being sent to Siberia because it doesn't have the popularity of crazyguyonabike, but that won't always be true. The changes I am working on will bring the topics together so they are not all separate and balkanized as they are now. Once I have done these changes, I think topicwise will grow and get a lot more popular over time, hopefully eventually being even bigger than crazyguyonabike. You'll still be able to focus on specific topics, as you do now, but it will be a lot easier to see what's going on across lots of different topics at once. It'll be very interesting.

Anyway, it's up to the mods and community at bikeforums as to what you feel constitutes "bicycle touring" over here. On this website, I am not an admin, but just another voice. I am not a troll, I just have an honestly held position that motors have no place in bicycle touring. If someone isn't able to ride a regular bicycle, then I don't think political correctness and arguments about disabilities should be used to browbeat the rest of us into accepting that "anything goes", because then the entire space starts to lose all meaning. I don't think I'm alone in this feeling. And it's not "harmless" to say "just ignore the e-assist discussions if you have nothing positive to say". These are forums, the very definition of "a place for discussion". I see people talking about banning specific individuals from these discussions just because they disagree that e-assist belongs under bicycle touring. And, indeed, I see certain voices have apparently been silenced, who were not (in my estimation) trolling or even being that impolite. They were merely arguing a position, and they have been silenced for having that position in the very place that was supposed to be for their position (that bicycles don't have motors, and putting a motor on a bicycle makes it into something different, something this particular forum was not supposed to be about). Many people who tour by bicycle do, I think, see themselves as separate and different from motorized vehicles on the road, and the threat of intrusion into this space of people who want to put motors on bicycles just feels wrong in a very fundamental way. Again, I'm not arguing against the very existence of e-assist or e-bikes or whatever you want to call them; just that they don't belong here, in the bicycle touring forum. But that's just my opinion... what a forum is for after all.

Neil
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Old 07-16-16, 02:14 PM
  #136  
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I agree 100% with almost everything you said, @NeilGunton , except with the not touring part, Yes it is touring, it's not "bicycle touring" it's "E-Bike touring", see the difference? Instantly one can/should be able to see the difference and the similarities... JMO So Maybe there should be a sub forum for E-Bike touring in the touring forum? Maybe that would be acceptable to all...

EDIT; Nowhere in your post did you say stuff like, you need to get off your fat butt, you just need to try harder, you are a cheater,...

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Old 07-16-16, 02:34 PM
  #137  
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Neil, I respect your opinion in regards to your site but it is still just an opinion. Should it (or anyone's) have the right to silence a discussion that other people may want to engage in? You may not consider Ebike touring to be legit (whatever that means really) but others do, so who gets to decide that. On your site, you do of course, but unless the owners of this site say otherwise it appears to be a valid topic.

I do think posting into a discussion to simply say again and again you don't believe in it's validity and posting inflammatory stuff just to poke the bear and get it locked is trolling. I don't much like bmx biking (I think it looks a bit silly). That's my opinion. But if I go to the bmx sub forum and keep posting into threads telling others I think bmx bikes look silly I would be called a troll. If I have no use for them I don't really need to be in those threads do I.

I rarely see a discussion here regarding how to get the human legs in better shape for better touring efficiency, or discussions about optimized nutrition, stretching properly, post ride muscle rolling etc... just lots of questions about how one can use technology to make touring easier via sprocket/crank sizing. Perhaps, if there was a real emphasis on developing and maintaining real human strength and endurance for touring there could be a better argument for E bikes diminishing something. All I've seen so far is how E bikes have helped others enjoy bicycle touring. Until E bikes interfere with my enjoyment of touring I don't get the objection. I don't get my ego strokes by boasting about what a great bicycle rider I am.

And I think that gets to the nub of this discussion: Some people do get their ego strokes from associating themselves as "bicyclists" and appear to see E bikes as diluting their image by association. So they would exclude discussion or inclusion in order to prop up their own self image (unless of course they own stock in the world wide manual bike industry and are worried about pricing plummeting).

All this talk about slippery slopes and lost meaning baffles me. It would appear that some see bicycling touring as a badge of honour or something - kind of a "I did it all with my own muscles" type of thing. I don't feel that and just see a bike as the mode of transport. I also don't get all defensive about my mini van. And it's not like anyone is trying to be deceptive about what they are doing. Everybody knows what an E bike is when people talk about E bike touring.

I guess the fundamental question is: Who owns the rights to bicycle touring? The answer is - no one. On your site you own the right to decide discussion about it and the owners of this site own the right to discussion here, but no particular member owns the right to shut down a thread just because they don't like the content.

Anyway, keep fighting the good fight. Not letting the able bodied be browbeaten by the disabled into allowing them to discuss their own mode of bicycling touring is a worthy effort no doubt. You know, I remember a discussion here not too long ago where you were getting raked over the coals a bit for deriving your income from donations made by other bike tourists and I pretty well sided with your positioning but that statement makes you sound like a bit of jerk.

Last edited by Happy Feet; 07-16-16 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 07-16-16, 02:39 PM
  #138  
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I agree with NG on what constitutes bicycle touring and more to the point what doesn't. I'm also on record in this thread that as far as I'm concerned a bike with any type of motor has ceased to be a bicycle.

This isn't 'naysaying' or 'trolling' it's just my honest opinion.
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Old 07-16-16, 04:00 PM
  #139  
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Nobody ever said that saying/discussing the topic (whether or not touring on E-Bikes was touring and saying it wasn't) was trolling, It's the name-calling, the personalized denigrating of what some can do as being not good enough because they just weren't trying hard enough...
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Old 07-16-16, 04:22 PM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
I agree with NG on what constitutes bicycle touring and more to the point what doesn't. I'm also on record in this thread that as far as I'm concerned a bike with any type of motor has ceased to be a bicycle.

This isn't 'naysaying' or 'trolling' it's just my honest opinion.
Yes it did stop being just a bicycle, it is now an E-Bike, get the difference?

Same as touring on a bike, not the same as touring on an E-Bike... But, touring it is, for both type of "bike users"...

Same as CC touring on a road bike, not the same as stealth camping touring on a touring bike..

Same as normal bike touring carrying everything yourself is not the same as supported touring...

"Touring", it's the only word that stays the same. It's also the reason we developed/made up different words to describe similar things but because they are not "exactly" the same, you can understand whatever the reason is that they differ...

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Old 07-16-16, 04:40 PM
  #141  
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Or,

I enjoy an activity and take engaging in it for granted because I am able bodied.

I don't want to share that enjoyment with others who may also be able to engage in it via the use of adaptive technology.

Oh, they can do it - I just don't want to acknowledge or talk about it or have it talked about around me.

But otherwise, I'm fine with it

Maybe I'm a little hot about the subject but I'm a physical rehab assistant and my job, day in and day out, is to assist people so they can walk. Just walk. They could only dream about bike touring. Dissing people because of disabilities or trying to exclude them from participation because it makes able bodied people feel imposed upon gets zero respect from me.

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Old 07-16-16, 04:44 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by NeilGunton View Post
I want to clarify, since it's been mentioned, that I don't allow e-bike journals on crazyguyonabike. My opinion is, and has always been, that putting any type of motor on a bicycle changes the equation in such a fundamental way that it's no longer "bicycle" touring. The thing is, once you have a motor, any motor, then it becomes very difficult to know where to draw the line. Sure, e-assist is just the tip, but then the lines are pretty blurry all the way up to full-fledged motorcycles. Right now I see arguments based on disability and accessibility, which is insidious because I can guarantee that over time, these e-assist motors and batteries will become more and more efficient. Where do we stop? Drawing arbitrary lines of "oh well you still have to pedal x amount" is going to be ever shifting, and if we move the goal posts based on appeals of wanting to be able to accompany your spouse, then the whole concept of "bicycle touring" has lost all meaning. Once we let political correctness and "let's include everybody" rule the conversation, then the space called "bicycle touring" ceases to have any meaning.

Drawing the line at "any type of motor" is much clearer, and, I thought, obvious, but it's equally obvious from this discussion that not all feel that way. I understand, but I want to say that it's not about hate, and it's sad that the people who think that motors have no place in "bicycle touring" have been shouted down, browbeaten, and labeled as trolls. The argument against e-bikes is simple, and it's not trolling - it's just calling to what many of us thought was a fundamental and self-evident part of what "bicycle touring" means: No motors allowed.

Some will argue that if you disallow e-bikes then you might as well disallow credit card touring, or supported tours. No. As long as you are riding a bicycle, which has no motor, then you can be on a racing bike for all I care, it doesn't matter how much gear you carry. You're still riding a bicycle.

And others have argued that having gears on the bike somehow means that you are getting "help" and so why not also allow e-assist - it's the same thing, right? No. Gears are just a mechanical advantage that doesn't put any external power into the system. In any case, the length of your cranks (and legs) also affect the gearing of your bike. This is different from having an external motor. And arguments about how you put 70% and the motor gives you 30%, so if you don't pedal then you don't go anywhere... so what? You're still getting help from an external motor. There's no way around that. I might as well argue "why not just take the motor off completely and then accept that you'll be going 30% less distance in a day - but the distance you do go will mean more, since you did it ALL under your own steam". Which is what, I thought, bicycle touring was supposed to be all about.

But again, this isn't about hate. It is, mainly, just a categorization issue. I allow e-bike journals on crazyguyonabike's sister site (which uses the exact same code and layout), topicwise.com. Currently most of those e-bike journals are on the general 'travel' topic, but the lack of a specific e-bike topic is mainly due to a failure on my part to have completed all the work I need to do in order to created all the myriad of topics that I want to have on there. I am in the process now of trying to get to the deep back-end work I need to do in the database and code that will allow me to be able to create a much more inclusive and broad range of topics there, one of which will definitely be e-bikes. I think it's a very intriguing area, and very encouraging for areas like commuting and local travel from home. It's just that I see bicycle touring as not being about having a motor on the bike, and so crazyguyonabike is not the place for those journals. Topicwise is. I know some say that being sent to topicwise is like being sent to Siberia because it doesn't have the popularity of crazyguyonabike, but that won't always be true. The changes I am working on will bring the topics together so they are not all separate and balkanized as they are now. Once I have done these changes, I think topicwise will grow and get a lot more popular over time, hopefully eventually being even bigger than crazyguyonabike. You'll still be able to focus on specific topics, as you do now, but it will be a lot easier to see what's going on across lots of different topics at once. It'll be very interesting.

Anyway, it's up to the mods and community at bikeforums as to what you feel constitutes "bicycle touring" over here. On this website, I am not an admin, but just another voice. I am not a troll, I just have an honestly held position that motors have no place in bicycle touring. If someone isn't able to ride a regular bicycle, then I don't think political correctness and arguments about disabilities should be used to browbeat the rest of us into accepting that "anything goes", because then the entire space starts to lose all meaning. I don't think I'm alone in this feeling. And it's not "harmless" to say "just ignore the e-assist discussions if you have nothing positive to say". These are forums, the very definition of "a place for discussion". I see people talking about banning specific individuals from these discussions just because they disagree that e-assist belongs under bicycle touring. And, indeed, I see certain voices have apparently been silenced, who were not (in my estimation) trolling or even being that impolite. They were merely arguing a position, and they have been silenced for having that position in the very place that was supposed to be for their position (that bicycles don't have motors, and putting a motor on a bicycle makes it into something different, something this particular forum was not supposed to be about). Many people who tour by bicycle do, I think, see themselves as separate and different from motorized vehicles on the road, and the threat of intrusion into this space of people who want to put motors on bicycles just feels wrong in a very fundamental way. Again, I'm not arguing against the very existence of e-assist or e-bikes or whatever you want to call them; just that they don't belong here, in the bicycle touring forum. But that's just my opinion... what a forum is for after all.

Neil
So, how does saying I tour on an E-Bike effect the bicycle touring philosophy? It doesn't that's how... It's E-Bike touring, not the same as bicycle touring... Get it? I hope most people do/would...
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Old 07-16-16, 05:26 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
yes it did stop being just a bicycle, it is now an e-bike, get the difference?
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Old 07-16-16, 05:40 PM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
That's just for legal purposes, licencing etc. it's treated the same as a bicycle.

For definitions I use a dictionary:



I've no problem with 'bikes' or variations of it as the word is somewhat ambiguous.

If people want to tour on Ebikes or go 'E-bike touring' then fine, I'll just keep on (bi)cycle touring.
Good for you, unfortunately there is no touring on E-Bikes sub forum, just this thread, the other one (thread) that I believe you actually started, got locked.. There are two choices If I was a moderator, I would start an E-bike touring forum in the E-Bikes forum, or an E-bike touring forum in the touring forum... JMO/suggestion if anyone is listening... Well, I guess three, one could just ignore the developing issue, BUT, that is, (E-Assist is) where bicycling is going in the future...

Last edited by 350htrr; 07-16-16 at 06:18 PM. Reason: add stuff
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Old 07-16-16, 08:31 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
Good for you, unfortunately there is no touring on E-Bikes sub forum, just this thread, the other one (thread) that I believe you actually started, got locked.. There are two choices If I was a moderator, I would start an E-bike touring forum in the E-Bikes forum, or an E-bike touring forum in the touring forum... JMO/suggestion if anyone is listening... Well, I guess three, one could just ignore the developing issue, BUT, that is, (E-Assist is) where bicycling is going in the future...
Some good suggestions IMO esp #1 which would logically deal with issue of long-distance e-bike rides/charging/mechanical. OTOH for info like routes/accommodations etc it seems reasonable for e-bikers to post on main Touring forum. Even motorcycle tourists can face some of the same issues as bicycle tourists.
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Old 07-16-16, 09:14 PM
  #146  
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Like it or not electric bikes are not going away, but rather going to become a lot more common. Rather than dismiss them out of hand as not a real way of cycling, do some reading on them to have an informed rather than knee jerk opinion.
All About Bicycle Touring With Electric Bikes - CyclingAbout CyclingAbout this is a pretty good generic article that covers the basics.

And this actually looks pretty neat. https://optibike.com/long-range-touring/ If they can get that kind of mileage without pedaling much, a hard effort should get massive daily mileage. And this one is just a cool looking bicycle. Torq - 700C Touring electric bike. The Science Fiction geek in me thinks its frakking great.

For now, I feel that I want to pedal myself under my own power(easy to say sitting here at the computer, crawling up a damn mountain in the heat I sometimes have different thoughts). But if I ran into an electric bike tourist, would I start huffing and going on about how it was not "real bike touring"? No, cause I am not a dick head. And I seriously doubt that that person will scoff at my Luddite primitive manual bicycle. That kind of behavior is generally reserved for keyboard commandos.


Years ago I bought one of the first commercially available electric bikes, a Zap. I had fun with it, and it was great to find my truck on a sunday morning after partying to hard the night before(Art Student). Very hangover friendly way to cruise around. This was before I really got into cycling. Now, I have gone from that 25 year old fat beer chugger into a middle aged fat big ring hill masher on a road bike, and a sit and spinner on a fully loaded touring bike, and a ridged single speed mountain biker. So if in a few years I decide to dabble in electric bikes again, no one stating their opinion of it on some forum or other is going to effect my decision.
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Old 07-17-16, 02:20 AM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by shipwreck View Post
Like it or not electric bikes are not going away, but rather going to become a lot more common. Rather than dismiss them out of hand as not a real way of cycling, do some reading on them to have an informed rather than knee jerk opinion.
All About Bicycle Touring With Electric Bikes - CyclingAbout CyclingAbout this is a pretty good generic article that covers the basics.
I've read it and haven't changed my mind.

This from the 'comments' section where I didn't see anything about disabilities.

The new hotness these days is the bafang BBSHD kits. Only mid drive you can buy that handles high power, mine does 1500w which is six times greater than that wimpy european stuff. There's nothing on the market like it.

And a kilowatt of the new 18650b power density cells only weighs 9 pounds, a couple of those bad boys and you can do hundreds of miles with a mid drive. The future of ebikes is bright indeed
All About Bicycle Touring With Electric Bikes - CyclingAbout CyclingAbout
This 'wimpy european' will still be re-charging my battery with good food and a night's sleep.
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Old 07-17-16, 09:00 AM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
Good for you, unfortunately there is no touring on E-Bikes sub forum, just this thread, the other one (thread) that I believe you actually started, got locked.. There are two choices If I was a moderator, I would start an E-bike touring forum in the E-Bikes forum, or an E-bike touring forum in the touring forum... JMO/suggestion if anyone is listening... Well, I guess three, one could just ignore the developing issue, BUT, that is, (E-Assist is) where bicycling is going in the future...
I totally disagree that e-bikes are the future of bicycling. Canoeing is a good example. I have a beautiful 1937 Thompson canoe. I also have an sleek kevlar 17.5' marathon canoe. While the design and material have changed the means of propulsion remains the same. This has not changed even though a few people will use small outboards on a canoe.

Being self propelled is what draws many people to bicycling, kayaking, canoeing, backpacking, nordic skiing, etc. People with a different perspective will gravitate toward motor boats, motor driven cycles, snow mobiles, and ATVs.

I believe that while e-bikes will become more popular, they will not be the "future" of bicycling.

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Old 07-17-16, 09:38 AM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by Doug64 View Post
I totally disagree that e-bikes are the future of bicycling. Canoeing is a good example. I have a beautiful 1937 Thompson canoe. I also have an sleek kevlar 17.5' marathon canoe. While the design and material have changed the means of propulsion remains the same. This has not changed even though a few people will use small outboards on a canoe.

Being self propelled is what draws many people to bicycling, kayaking, canoeing, backpacking, nordic skiing, etc. People with a different perspective will gravitate toward motor boats, motor driven cycles, snow mobiles, and ATVs.

I believe that while e-bikes will become more popular, they will not be the "future" of bicycling.
And I agree, that is what I meant to say.
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Old 07-17-16, 12:53 PM
  #150  
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As an old person I know that it's great to be young, and it's even better when you're young and fit enough to enjoy bike-touring. When young you think that you're immortal and that nothing could happen to you and that unthinking arrogance comes through in some of the posts regarding the use of e-assist bikes in this thread.

I've been lucky enough to bike-tour for around forty years and for that time cycling for me was not just a sport or a hobby, it was a way of life which included my friends, my cycling club and importantly my self-image. That life came to abrupt stop however when I suffered two heart attacks in succession, both happening while cycling.
No matter how hard I tried...and I did try hard...it was then impossible to keep up with my cycling mates after losing a third of my large heart muscle. An e-assist bike allowed me to rejoin my club-mates on club runs and share again the sense of belonging and camaraderie which is such a large part of being a cyclist. Now for me that's important and makes this pointless wrangling about definitions not only meaningless but downright silly and petty.
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