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Running and Cycling

Old 10-04-12, 09:37 AM
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Capacity08
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Running and Cycling

Recently started put together a structured training plan based off of Joel Friel's ATP system, and I came across the problem that my track (running, not velodrome) season would interfere significantly with my cycling season. By the time my I'm done running, it's already early May. Many early spring races have already passed, and the summer criterium season is just around the corner.

My season went poorly last year, due to what I believe is a combination of lack of experience (last year was my first year competitively racing), and improper training. I lacked a large, and structured base segment to prepare me for the demands of rigorous interval training. Part of the problem, I believe was because I didn't start training until early May. I had hoped that the collegiate track running season, which did put me into really good form (for running at least) would translate to a solid base on the bike. I was mistaken. It helped, but in my opinion now, there's no substitute for riding. This year, I intend to do things differently.

But how?

I lift weights in the morning every Monday, Wednesday and Friday @ 6:30. Do not fret, as a 800/1500m runner, its mostly auxiliary, light-high rep weight lifting, mostly designed to keep a powerful core, and build lean leg muscle. Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday night is practice from 4:45-7:00 PM. Wednesday is a recovery day.

I don't want to ruin my track season by focusing to seriously on cycling, but I don't want to ruin my cycling season before it starts by not getting my base miles taken care of. So here's my plan:

Ride Tuesday and Thursday morning, I have a good 4 hours in the morning I can dedicate to riding. Then ride Saturday and Sunday on the days I don't have meeets. So thats a maximum 4 days out of the week I can ride, a fairly significant 16hrs a week.

My main concern, and reason for posting this thread is this: Will these base miles hinder my track season? It'd be mostly low intensity riding @ zones 1 and 2, but will my body be ready for a demanding track practice in the evening after a low-intensity but high-duration base ride?

Am I asking too much of myself? With lifting, cylcing, and track practice all crammed into a week will I just be burned out before I get to the season?

Hope you guys can help me out, or suggest some other possibilities.

Thanks,
Capacity08
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Old 10-04-12, 09:50 AM
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yes
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Old 10-04-12, 10:04 AM
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Being a former collegiate track and field athlete I ask why you need to worry about bike racing. You only have one college opportunity to race track and be the best you can be then the rest of your life to become a bicycle racer. I have two grown sons who both were Division 1 swimmers and both would ride with me in the summer. After graduation they both continued sports by cycling. My older son did triathlons’ up to the ironman distance and the younger became a cyclist. The younger went from a cat 5 to cat 2 in one season due mostly to the engine he developed swimming.

You can do both sports if you train for them properly and be careful of injuries. However, if you are serious about track then the workouts and meets you are doing are probably putting you at your body’s limit and overtraining may lead to compromise or breakdown.

If you do ride I suggest you use rollers at higher cadence and only ride at Z2 or less. The rollers will help with the pedal stroke without beating your body down.

Last edited by Allegheny Jet; 10-04-12 at 10:09 AM.
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Old 10-04-12, 10:28 AM
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you aren't going to be able to do 16 hours of riding per week without it hurting your track practice. i ran track in college as well, and ended up giving up track after my sophomore year to focus on cycling. i don't regret it. for your bike racing, are you sure that you are limited by your engine and not by your bike handling? for me, after track season ended, there were pretty much only crits left. in crits, my physical capabilities were good enough to do well in cat 5 fields, but my handling skills were terrible. being timid in corners, not understanding tactics, and being passive in the pack were much more problematic than power.

if you want to maximize your improvements on the bike without having a big impact on your track season, i would suggest doing crit practices or fast paced group rides during the track season, and maybe get some base miles from here until indoor (january-ish).

have you heard of cyclocross?
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Old 10-04-12, 10:44 AM
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I'll ask the obvious question(s) that seems to have been missed here:

What track events are you doing? And what cycling events are you doing?
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Old 10-04-12, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by johnybutts View Post
yes
Originally Posted by Allegheny Jet View Post
...why you need to worry about bike racing. You only have one college opportunity to race track and be the best you can be then the rest of your life to become a bicycle racer. ...
Originally Posted by fly:yes/land:no View Post
you aren't going to be able to do 16 hours of riding per week without it hurting your track practice....
+1

Priorities, man.

Try cycling during the track off-season to maintain cardiovascular form. Mix it up with a couple runs each week to maintain muscular form.
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Old 10-04-12, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
I'll ask the obvious question(s) that seems to have been missed here:

What track events are you doing? And what cycling events are you doing?
op said 800/1500
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Old 10-04-12, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by fly:yes/land:no View Post
op said 800/1500
Missed that, my coffee hadn't kicked in.

If you're running 800/1500m events you have all the aerobic work you need to be competitive in crits; you're already doing a bunch of 2-5m intervals just doing these events.

What you're probably lacking is both the muscular adaptation needed for cycling and the capacity to recover from multiple efforts.

You don't need to plod around in Z1/2 for a bunch of hours unless you're planning on doing a bunch of 3 hour road races. Understand Friel's outline is just an outline aimed at a "general" cycling specific elite athlete and is based on periodization where a peak is the goal.

16 hours on the bike in addition to the workout schedule you outlined is, for lack of a better word, dumb.

Any bike work is going to impact your running; fatigue is fatigue. The best solution is to make every bit of fatigue count towards something productive and to minimize it's impact. Given you're getting aerobic/anaerobic work from the track you could do a lot on a focused bike schedule of 5-8 hours/week and spend the rest of the time napping.

I'd look at 10-20 minute high SST intervals of varying quantity and criss/cross intervals in the 30s/1m range (30s/1m high output followed by 30s/1m at maximum output that still allows recovery then repeat x times). With a good warm up and cool down you could knock this out in 50-90 minutes. Throw in some sprint work here and there.

And, as pointed out several times, learn how to race your bike. That's 70% of the game.
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Old 10-04-12, 01:38 PM
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I appreciate all the responses.

So from the posts so far I've gathered that riding during the season is a bad idea. I had figured this since the beginning, and mostly posted here today just to throw it past you guys and hear you opinion.

However, given that track is an extensive season (about 8 months from October to May) I don't know about you guys, but I miss my bike. I get 3 months for the most part to ride, then I gotta start getting ready for track again.

Another reason I asked is that there was a small glimmer of hope nestled somewhere deep in my brain. A lot of the cross-training done during the track season is done on the bike. In order to prevent tendinitis ("shin splints") a LOT of our athletes do extended warm ups on the bike vs. a low intensity run before practice. Also Wednesday evenings are deemed "recovery" days, in which we do whatever we need to recover, whether that be a pool workout, bike ride, or a long slow recovery run.

If I rode those 2 mornings during the week, and maybe one extended ride on the weekend I was under the impression it wouldn't drag me down, but rather help me loosen up the legs, build up a stronger aerobic base, and even get a jump-start on my base for next cycling season. Correct me if I'm wrong?

Thanks,
Capacity08

EDIT:
Any bike work is going to impact your running; fatigue is fatigue. The best solution is to make every bit of fatigue count towards something productive and to minimize it's impact. Given you're getting aerobic/anaerobic work from the track you could do a lot on a focused bike schedule of 5-8 hours/week and spend the rest of the time napping.

I'd look at 10-20 minute high SST intervals of varying quantity and criss/cross intervals in the 30s/1m range (30s/1m high output followed by 30s/1m at maximum output that still allows recovery then repeat x times). With a good warm up and cool down you could knock this out in 50-90 minutes. Throw in some sprint work here and there.
Ah, thanks for this advice, thats a gem.

However, what would the recovery period for something like this be? If i do this @ say 7 AM, have a few laid back classes, and a solid lunch then start track @ 4 PM would I be able to get as much as possible out of my track workout?

Last edited by Capacity08; 10-04-12 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 10-04-12, 02:00 PM
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Whatever you end up doing, especially if you lift/run/bike as much as you do all in one week, make sure to remember that resting is just as important as training. Don't over train, take a few days off from everything every x amount of weekends. And naps are great !
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Old 10-04-12, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Capacity08 View Post
However, what would the recovery period for something like this be? If i do this @ say 7 AM, have a few laid back classes, and a solid lunch then start track @ 4 PM would I be able to get as much as possible out of my track workout?
That's a Zen riddle. The answer lies within yourself.

Western answer: Dunno. People recover differently, only way to find out would be to give it a shot. But my guess would be you'd be pretty good to go; split workouts are often more productive than straight blocks.
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Old 10-05-12, 07:28 AM
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https://www.therunzone.com/

^^^Go to this website. Ask the same questions to "Tinman" in the coaching section. He is a very knowledgeable running coach, who understands bike racing too. Probably find the perfect answer from him.

And it does sound like you are wanting to bite off a bit more than a full time student can chew, but heck maybe your ability to handle massive workloads is beyond the average.
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Old 10-07-12, 07:46 PM
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I'd be really careful about doing anything that impacts your track season. Any college sport is a huge commitment, and you will kick yourself in the a** if you shortchange it.

I rowed, and on pretty much the same schedule - 430-7 Monday thru Friday, with a captains practice Saturday morning. During the year I would occasionally fill in early practices on a local junior hockey team if someone was sick, and that threw me off for days with rowing. I stopped after freshman season.

If all else fails, talk to your coach. Tell him what you want to do, and get his advice. If you have a good relationship, he will help you out.
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Old 10-16-12, 06:19 AM
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What are your 800/1500m times,and average cycling times.
Concentrate on one sport or the other,or you'll become like a triathlete no good at any of them

Last edited by brundle_fly; 10-16-12 at 06:25 AM.
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Old 10-16-12, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by brundle_fly View Post
What are your 800/1500m times,and average cycling times.
Concentrate on one sport or the other,or you'll become like a triathlete no good at any of them
...

Last edited by YMCA; 10-16-12 at 06:59 AM. Reason: don't like being rude
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