What happened to my carbon frame?
#276
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: midwest
Posts: 2,528
Bikes: 2018 Roubaix Expert Di2, 2016 Diverge Expert X1
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 482 Post(s)
Liked 151 Times
in
105 Posts
And now.. in all fairness, I just found a photo of the seatstays from a bike review.. which makes me feel better about the seatstays.. As Jamis only seems to put a side view photo shot on their website, it wasn't evident that the stays are flattened and fairly wide.. Oh well.. was interesting discussion while it lasted though..
Was going to point that out to you when I got home. They do have an angled view at their site where you can see the stays on that model are wide, but it is not on the model's page.
My CF bike has some fairly skinny seat stays, but they feel really strong. The CF GT Grade has some really skinny seat stays, but they are fiberglass enforced carbon fiber. The bike manufacturers design these bikes to fit their purpose. They can't make steel bike lighter and still maintain their integrity so that is why they shift to carbon fiber - it can be lighter yet as strong as a performance steel frame. Performance steel bikes will be heavier than CF, but also vulnerable to damage in a crash. Same for Aluminum performance bikes. If you want a light high performance bike, that is the risk you take, though it is very minimal (I have never crashed on any bike).
Last edited by GeneO; 09-09-16 at 05:41 PM.
#278
Senior Member
with your stupid statement right there you basically absolved any motorist from any fault for causing a crash of a cyclist, since, as you state in a vast generalization - if you are [the cyclist] crashing, they [the cyclist] are doing something wrong and to correct their errors.
makes you a real dick in the cycling community.
Last edited by idiotekniQues; 09-11-16 at 11:06 PM.
#279
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Brisbane Aust
Posts: 1,643
Bikes: Giant ToughRoad Giant talon
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 705 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
1 Post
And most crashes don't even involve motorists so why scope lock on them? I haven't crashed a bike as an adult but I had a racer out of a pack thought he could turn directly across in front of me one day and he ended up over my bonnet. No injury to him thankfully, and you could reason that he was tired and distracted by the pace, but he was 100% at fault.
Don't you think time for you to get off the teat and stop looking for people to blame for your errors.
#280
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 147
Bikes: 1990 Specialized Hardrock Sport, 2007 Pinarello Galileo 105, 2014 Raleigh Cadent 2, 2017 Jamis Renegade Expert
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
And now.. in all fairness, I just found a photo of the seatstays from a bike review.. which makes me feel better about the seatstays.. As Jamis only seems to put a side view photo shot on their website, it wasn't evident that the stays are flattened and fairly wide.. Oh well.. was interesting discussion while it lasted though
#281
Banned.
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 69
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#282
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 9,924
Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3352 Post(s)
Liked 1,056 Times
in
635 Posts
And of course notice that the force was applied in a manner that the frame SHOULD resist, not a side load.
#283
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,764
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1110 Post(s)
Liked 1,204 Times
in
761 Posts
haven't crashed a bike since i was in junior high. but that changes nothing - not all crashes are the cyclists fault.
with your stupid statement right there you basically absolved any motorist from any fault for causing a crash of a cyclist, since, as you state in a vast generalization - if you are [the cyclist] crashing, they [the cyclist] are doing something wrong and to correct their errors.
makes you a real dick in the cycling community.
with your stupid statement right there you basically absolved any motorist from any fault for causing a crash of a cyclist, since, as you state in a vast generalization - if you are [the cyclist] crashing, they [the cyclist] are doing something wrong and to correct their errors.
makes you a real dick in the cycling community.
I really doubt the guy was implying that all crashes were avoidable, but that if someone is actually crashing a lot, they should ride safer and smarter, and learn to avoid them. Yes, even learn to avoid, or minimize the chances of, a car running into them by understanding dangerous situations.
Maybe I'm a dick too for encouraging people to ride smarter? And that crashing a lot is not normal?
Last edited by Camilo; 09-12-16 at 12:32 PM.
#284
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Brisbane Aust
Posts: 1,643
Bikes: Giant ToughRoad Giant talon
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 705 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
1 Post
And the end of the day you must accept partial responsibility for any accident because of the choices you make. Where you ride, how you ride and at what time you ride. And if you are having multiple crashes then obviously you are doing something wrong. If you can't understand this then you have no self-preservation skills.
#285
Banned.
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 69
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
You appear to be blinded by your roadie bias - I get it. It's not about "self-preservation" it's about progressing your skills, pushing envelopes and having more fun.
Sometimes you crash even when you're doing everything right (unless you just don't ride at all that day).
So yeah, your whole "If you're crashing you're doing something WRONG! Correct your errors and stop crashing." bit is silly.
#286
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,494
Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7653 Post(s)
Liked 3,482 Times
in
1,838 Posts
Again, if some folks have multiple crashes they don't have to be doing something wrong.
You appear to be blinded by your roadie bias - I get it. It's not about "self-preservation" it's about progressing your skills, pushing envelopes and having more fun.
Sometimes you crash even when you're doing everything right (unless you just don't ride at all that day).
So yeah, your whole "If you're crashing you're doing something WRONG! Correct your errors and stop crashing." bit is silly.
You appear to be blinded by your roadie bias - I get it. It's not about "self-preservation" it's about progressing your skills, pushing envelopes and having more fun.
Sometimes you crash even when you're doing everything right (unless you just don't ride at all that day).
So yeah, your whole "If you're crashing you're doing something WRONG! Correct your errors and stop crashing." bit is silly.
Some people try so hard to get into fights, and then act so outraged that people are fighting back. it would be comical if these were not the adults which make up modern society, where I have to live.
#287
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 8,687
Bikes: 2020 Masi Giramondo 700c; 2013 Lynskey Peloton; 1992 Giant Rincon; 1989 Dawes needs parts; 1985 Trek 660; 1985 Fuji Club; 1984 Schwinn Voyager; 1984 Miyata 612; 1977 Raleigh Competition GS
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1126 Post(s)
Liked 253 Times
in
204 Posts
I actually agree with this statement, crashing a lot is not normal. I lived and commuted during rush hour, and trained for about 8 years in Los Angeles Ca and only had one crash, in over 40 years of riding I've only had two crashes, including that one in L.A., those don't include super minor ones resulting in no damage or injuries, but rather involving cars, pedestrians, or objects. The crash in L.A. involved a car resulted in totalling the frame and dislocating my shoulder, and the other which was in Santa Barbara involved a ped which I missed but due to the radical swerve I made bent the front wheel and dislocated my shoulder; neither of the crashes was my fault. I think 2 or 3 accidents over a lifetime would be normal? But people do need to ride smarter, not trying to be a dick either but when I see riders all the time on streets for the last 40 plus years I shake my head and can't believe that half of all cyclists aren't dead! They run stop signs and lights with no regard to either the law or to traffic that has the right away, riding on the wrong side of the road, weaving in and out of traffic without any warnings, drafting cars, break every law on the road that can be broken, this isn't smart riding, just isn't.
#288
Senior Member
This forum is starting to tick me off, and I'm still sort of new here. All of the jackleg comments, snarkiness and insults are juvenile and rude. Stick to constructive comments.
#289
Banned.
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 69
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Okay can we end this stupidity by stipulating that crashes on the road are wholly unrelated to crashes, offroad, and people arguing two different things and trying to be right are either confused or worse?
Some people try so hard to get into fights, and then act so outraged that people are fighting back. it would be comical if these were not the adults which make up modern society, where I have to live.
Some people try so hard to get into fights, and then act so outraged that people are fighting back. it would be comical if these were not the adults which make up modern society, where I have to live.
Accidents/crashing are never fully in one's control. To argue otherwise continues to be silly.
Love this extreme example:
#292
Banned.
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 69
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#293
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 8,687
Bikes: 2020 Masi Giramondo 700c; 2013 Lynskey Peloton; 1992 Giant Rincon; 1989 Dawes needs parts; 1985 Trek 660; 1985 Fuji Club; 1984 Schwinn Voyager; 1984 Miyata 612; 1977 Raleigh Competition GS
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1126 Post(s)
Liked 253 Times
in
204 Posts
Help us out here, like what kind of constructive comments do you have in mind? Maybe you can add a level of intelligence to the conversation that it is obviously missing.
#294
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Brisbane Aust
Posts: 1,643
Bikes: Giant ToughRoad Giant talon
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 705 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
1 Post
No I'm not a roady, I wouldn't ride one of those if you paid me, they are too dangerous. I ride a hybrid but one set up for performance. On the road there are many vehicles and out of all of them the bicycle has the least acceleration has the poorest braking capabilities and is the hardest to see. All it has in its favor is its ability to squeeze into tight places and get out of the way.
So why the hell would I choose the one with the least traction and then ride it in environments where I am surrounded by hundreds of tons of metal moving at high speeds?
I ride roads, but off the main roads where it's quiet. And quite frankly I am sick of hearing roadies whinging and complaining about how car drivers won't respect them and endanger their lives. I'm sick of hearing about how it's all the car drivers fault because "they have the right to be there too"
Just because the government gives you a right doesn't mean you need to exercise it in all cases just to satisfy your personal desires. If you go out on modern busy roads on a bicycle you take your life in your hands. Accept it, and stop looking for someone to blame every time things go wrong.
#295
Banned.
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 69
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Wow. You missed the mark once again. Your whine does not upset me in the least. Neither did the rest of your funny claims. "Pity" is the word you're looking for fearful hybrid warrior guy.
p.s. as noted above, not all riding takes place on the road or paved paths...
p.s. as noted above, not all riding takes place on the road or paved paths...
#296
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,843
Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
612 Posts
MOD NOTE to ALL
Please discuss WITHOUT personal insults.
Thanks.
Please discuss WITHOUT personal insults.
Thanks.
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
#297
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: midwest
Posts: 2,528
Bikes: 2018 Roubaix Expert Di2, 2016 Diverge Expert X1
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 482 Post(s)
Liked 151 Times
in
105 Posts
I am interested in the topic, technically. but the direction the topic has taken is pretty much BS. It is not constructive nor informative. Just a rehash of the same old same old.
#298
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,494
Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7653 Post(s)
Liked 3,482 Times
in
1,838 Posts
How's this---people who crash a lot on the road probably are reckless or insufficiently aware. Like the guy in "Getting over mu=y first crash" or whatever ... he said "there was nothing I could have done" because he bulldozed a BMW which darted out of a side street into his path.
Some experienced road riders immediately looked back at their own learning curves, and pointed out that while there are times when a car can come from nowhere, most of the times cars---big, loud, visible---can be seen and sometimes, right of way be damned, a smart cyclist will slow, anticipating a driver pulling out.
All this garbage between, road, hybrid. and offroad riders is just that---garbage. Some of the same guys who ride roads every weekday ride trails on the weekends, and ride hybrids for fun too. The idea that the kind of bike one riders determines or indicates one's personality is absurd.
Crashing offroad is entirely different---I went out (and will again once my shoulder heals) planning on crashing a couple times on every offroad ride... didn't always, but if I try to clear an obstacle I've never cleared before, this might be the time I make it or maybe, next time or the time after that.
But I think we all understood the post was about road riding, and someone wanted to throw in the off-road opinion for no good or constructive reason--like we are talking about boating accidents and the person talks about seaplanes, for some reason ... whatever.
Personally I used to be one of those road bikes (often riding a hybrid, by the way) who didn't care, who ran lights, who pushed limits on the road .. and who learned through injury that that is kind of stupid and lowers one's odds for survival. I learned to ride defensively---everyone who wants to ride in traffic and also live a long time not crippled, should do the same.
Anyone who has a lot of wrecks in traffic probably needs to open his or her eyes, take out the earbuds, learn to look more than ten feet and more than just straight ahead, and learn that a stop light cannot stop a car, but a car running a light can certainly stop a cyclist ... and a cyclist running a light to commute quickly can die quickly.
Eventually it becomes Darwinism, but I'd like to help any rider wise enough to listen and learn.
Yeah, sometimes you get hit and it is entirely the other person's fault---and there was nothing you could possibly have done. But those instances are Really rare in my experience and also talking with and reading posts from other cyclists. Almost all the time there are ways cyclists can ride smarter and not get caught by bad drivers. if that weren't the case ... no one would ride.
Some experienced road riders immediately looked back at their own learning curves, and pointed out that while there are times when a car can come from nowhere, most of the times cars---big, loud, visible---can be seen and sometimes, right of way be damned, a smart cyclist will slow, anticipating a driver pulling out.
All this garbage between, road, hybrid. and offroad riders is just that---garbage. Some of the same guys who ride roads every weekday ride trails on the weekends, and ride hybrids for fun too. The idea that the kind of bike one riders determines or indicates one's personality is absurd.
Crashing offroad is entirely different---I went out (and will again once my shoulder heals) planning on crashing a couple times on every offroad ride... didn't always, but if I try to clear an obstacle I've never cleared before, this might be the time I make it or maybe, next time or the time after that.
But I think we all understood the post was about road riding, and someone wanted to throw in the off-road opinion for no good or constructive reason--like we are talking about boating accidents and the person talks about seaplanes, for some reason ... whatever.
Personally I used to be one of those road bikes (often riding a hybrid, by the way) who didn't care, who ran lights, who pushed limits on the road .. and who learned through injury that that is kind of stupid and lowers one's odds for survival. I learned to ride defensively---everyone who wants to ride in traffic and also live a long time not crippled, should do the same.
Anyone who has a lot of wrecks in traffic probably needs to open his or her eyes, take out the earbuds, learn to look more than ten feet and more than just straight ahead, and learn that a stop light cannot stop a car, but a car running a light can certainly stop a cyclist ... and a cyclist running a light to commute quickly can die quickly.
Eventually it becomes Darwinism, but I'd like to help any rider wise enough to listen and learn.
Yeah, sometimes you get hit and it is entirely the other person's fault---and there was nothing you could possibly have done. But those instances are Really rare in my experience and also talking with and reading posts from other cyclists. Almost all the time there are ways cyclists can ride smarter and not get caught by bad drivers. if that weren't the case ... no one would ride.
#299
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 8,687
Bikes: 2020 Masi Giramondo 700c; 2013 Lynskey Peloton; 1992 Giant Rincon; 1989 Dawes needs parts; 1985 Trek 660; 1985 Fuji Club; 1984 Schwinn Voyager; 1984 Miyata 612; 1977 Raleigh Competition GS
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1126 Post(s)
Liked 253 Times
in
204 Posts
Production process from what I could find, not hand made one by one but a production process was first done in 1986 by Kestrel that wasn't a lugged design which was done first by Exxon Graftek in 1975. There is nothing that I could find showing that Jamis pioneered some sort of manufacturing process with carbon. All Jamis says is that they pioneered a supposedly new radical manufacturing process that delivers the lightest, stiffest, most aero road bikes...and here's the key phrase...'WE'VE EVER PRODUCED". So in other words it's only new and radical to them and not to the rest of the world.