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Help me not hate tubulars!

Old 10-06-19, 10:19 AM
  #1  
joluja 
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Help me not hate tubulars!

I am hoping to gain some wisdom from this esteemed group to help me reduce my disdain for tubulars. My last three rebuilds have required tubular replacement and the long and painful glue removal, new glue application, sore hands and mess. Does it ever get better? Are there some secrets of the trade to make things easier? I would love to hear your best secrets for tubular replacement!
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Old 10-06-19, 11:07 AM
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Removing the existing residual glue from the rim is not always necessary.

there is a totally tubular thread that has a lot of information.

aged tires get far fewer flats, the rubber becomes less tacky. 6 mo to a year- even more.

I will admit that the modern crop of adhesives are not as easy to use as the old standard Clement "red".

It's the way of things now.
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Old 10-06-19, 11:19 AM
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Quit being so selfish. Is it always about you? Tubulars are for your bike and if you really cared about your bikes...

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...y-tubular.html
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Old 10-06-19, 11:40 AM
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This will change your life:

https://www.effettomariposa.eu/en/products/carogna/
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Old 10-06-19, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jamesdak View Post
+100 for this. I just cleaned the old glue off the rims and taped on a set of Vittoria Corsa Speed tubulars for my Masi build. The Effetto glue remover worked very well, and the rims looked as if they had never seen a tubular. The tape works just as well, maybe even better, since I don't have glue all over everything when I'm done.

One hint - leave a small section between two spokes without tape, opposite the valve stem. This gives you a starting point to remove the tub at the side of the road. With this small unglued/untaped space, you can often remove the tub without levers, put your spare on, air it up, and be rolling again in less than 5 minutes.
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Old 10-06-19, 02:01 PM
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If this is about flipping old bikes, and you don't like cleaning of the decades old dry glue; yeah, it sucks.

If you're riding tubulars yourself, problem solved by not cleaning off the glue. It isn't necessary. I rode tubulars exclusively for many years. Cleaned off the old glue exactly once.
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Old 10-06-19, 02:34 PM
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Heat gun for the glue removal. Sure, it still takes 10 minutes per rim, but the melting glue smell seems a lot less noxious to me than a solvent smell would be. As mentioned above, you don't necessarily have to do it every time you change a tire; just a use a new layer over the old if the accumulation isn't too bad.
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Old 10-06-19, 02:50 PM
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I'm not a tubular expert, but I'm hearing that there are some new tubular tires that are also "tubeless". That is, the casing has a thin layer of rubber bonded to the inside so no inner tube is needed. That lets you put in some sealant and in a lot of cases, just ride the tire until it completely wears out. That's what I'd look into if I ever got a tubular-shod bike.
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Old 10-06-19, 03:18 PM
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Tubulars: tape plus some sealant. Easy enough to change on the side of the road., no levers.
Tubular clinchers: some sealant. Supremely easy to change anywhere, anytime, no levers.
Tubeless: an air compressor plus some sealant. On the side of the road? Hope your sealant works.
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Old 10-06-19, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
I'm not a tubular expert, but I'm hearing that there are some new tubular tires that are also "tubeless". That is, the casing has a thin layer of rubber bonded to the inside so no inner tube is needed. That lets you put in some sealant and in a lot of cases, just ride the tire until it completely wears out. That's what I'd look into if I ever got a tubular-shod bike.
Basically, that is the Tufo C S33 tire, and any "CS" by Tufo. Wears like iron, and now in 700 x 24, can approximate a harder 700 x 23 ride.

They will never ride like a Veloflex, but the tradeoff is worth it if you ride solo a lot.
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Old 10-06-19, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
Basically, that is the Tufo C S33 tire, and any "CS" by Tufo. Wears like iron, and now in 700 x 24, can approximate a harder 700 x 23 ride.

They will never ride like a Veloflex, but the tradeoff is worth it if you ride solo a lot.
Psimet2001 says that some (all?) of Donnelly and all of Maxxis's tubulars are now tubeless construction as well, so it's not just one particular tire.

Source: https://www.bikeforums.net/20814612-post54.html
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Old 10-06-19, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
I'm not a tubular expert, but I'm hearing that there are some new tubular tires that are also "tubeless". That is, the casing has a thin layer of rubber bonded to the inside so no inner tube is needed. That lets you put in some sealant and in a lot of cases, just ride the tire until it completely wears out. That's what I'd look into if I ever got a tubular-shod bike.
Actually that is an old concept. Trying to recall the brand or brands at the moment. From the 70's.
I recall Tufo also does this. I have not used them, the color of the sidewalls - kind of a red brick color just did not agree with my visual target.
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Old 10-06-19, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by joluja View Post
I am hoping to gain some wisdom to help me reduce my disdain for tubulars.
Does it ever get better? Are there some secrets of the trade to make things easier? I would love to hear your best secrets for tubular replacement!
I remember having feelings along those lines when I decided to use tubulars when I got into racing years ago.

Now I find pleasure in every aspect of them. Gluing them is predictable. It's a nice process. It doesn't hurt my thumbs at all; there's much less force involved than clinchers or tubeless.

Buy good ones. Stretch them. Read up where others have pointed you and watch a few videos.

I just used Carogna tape on a CX bike. I think it's amazing for CX; I'd never use anything else -- Carogna tape and a tubular tire without a tube. Beautiful combo.

For road, I still glue, because it's straightforward, lighter and less expensive.
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Old 10-06-19, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
Actually that is an old concept. Trying to recall the brand or brands at the moment. From the 70's.
I recall Tufo also does this. I have not used them, the color of the sidewalls - kind of a red brick color just did not agree with my visual target.
I used Wolber Liberty tires for a while. They had the tube permanently sealed inside the casing. I think it was all vulcanized together. They supplied this injector thing which was a tube of goop with a hollow needle cap type thing. You were supposed to inject a blob of the glue into the puncture in the tire, and leave a plug inside. This would allegedly patch the tire. It didn't work very well. Never had one of those 'patches' last more than a ride or two, if that. I guess it was enough to get you home at least. I suspect the modern concept is much improved now that there are effective sealants.

I think @T-Mar mentioned a while ago that this type of tire goes way way back, like to the turn of the century or something, IIRC.
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Old 10-06-19, 04:36 PM
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Panaracer sealant. Used in tubulars remains wet a very long time. There are and have been butyl tubed tubulars in which sealant remains active for years. Leave the tube dry until first puncture. Expect sealant to repair large majority of punctures.

Modern tubulars do not puncture all that much. Not noticeably more than light modern clinchers. In many instances tubulars can even flat less, because the tubes are better protected and you will never have tubes failing by split seams. If your standard is Marathons, no, tubulars aren't supposed to compete with that. Cheap tubulars still puncture almost as much as in old days. Repeat for emphasis, cheap tubulars puncture easily and often.

The Tufo approximates old singletube tires. They don't have the tubular ride at all. They flat pretty easy. When I began there were still lots of riders using singletubes, which were then still fresh enough to use, but which were in fact dead inventory from 1940s. Old singletubes didn't ride great either, but clinchers in '60s rode bad too. The old singletubes got some comfort by being very wide, 32mm and up, and by usually being mounted on wooden rims. And they were basically free. Patch with a rubber band, some sulfur, a match. Paying money for a bad imitation of a singletube will not make life easier.

Very strange to first read about those who for unknown reasons wish to apply many layers of glue. Then read about removing glue. Just leave the old glue alone and be happy.

If you can shop at all top quality MSRP $100 tubulars can be had under $50 and often much less. Not that different from quality clinchers. And you don't need tubes. Has it been mentioned yet the good tire stretch onto rims very very easily. Not much need for pre-stretch or overnight inflation if you start with the good stuff.
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Old 10-06-19, 05:32 PM
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Anybody have experience with Tufo Tape? I used to run Vittorias, 'Wobblers' (Wolbers) and really like Hutchinsons but that was over 30 years ago. I've gotten lazy with clinchers but might try some sew-ups again for giggles. Where's that Vittoria patch kit?
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Old 10-06-19, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
Actually that is an old concept. Trying to recall the brand or brands at the moment. From the 70's.
Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
I think @T-Mar mentioned a while ago that this type of tire goes way way back, like to the turn of the century or something, IIRC.
I wouldn't doubt it! The bicycle industry is funny that way: aluminum frames, indexed shifting, disc brakes, clamp-on stems... ideas older than most people posting here that had to be tried, rejected, forgotten, and refined multiple times before they finally caught on.
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Old 10-06-19, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post

Modern tubulars do not puncture all that much. Not noticeably more than light modern clinchers. In many instances tubulars can even flat less, because the tubes are better protected and you will never have tubes failing by split seams. If your standard is Marathons, no, tubulars aren't supposed to compete with that. Cheap tubulars still puncture almost as much as in old days. Repeat for emphasis, cheap tubulars puncture easily and often.

The Tufo approximates old singletube tires. They don't have the tubular ride at all. They flat pretty easy. When I began there were still lots of riders using singletubes, which were then still fresh enough to use, but which were in fact dead inventory from 1940s. Old singletubes didn't ride great either, but clinchers in '60s rode bad too.

What Tufo are you referring?

There seems to be LOADs of confusion on the interwebs regarding Tufo.

They make tubulars for tubular rims. They also make tubulars for CLINCHER rims. Nomenclature is closely related and probably adds to the mix up (S33 and CS3 etc).

Both serve specific duties and may or may not appeal BUT do have advantages.

The tubulars are known for higher rolling resistance and harsher ride but are very robust. They had a run for the multi-sport tri crowd as that's one event a puncture will largely cost a competitor. Plus you're on your own with no support. Though today, its well acknowledged other brands are better riding, faster with equally robust tread.

Now for the Tufo tubular for clincher. These are exceptionally tough for its tread and long wearing. The assembly elevates out of the rim cavity. Because of the design, pinch flats are non-existent. In case of puncture, one cannot take apart or patch but rather the removable stem core allows sealant.

Other advantages of the tubular for clincher: if one does puncture, the tire will not roll of the clincher rim. Its SAFE. You can even ride deflated-- slowly and one will feel a slight bump by the stem.

Knock them or not, they're one of the few makes that have good quality from low to high end product. I've never had a lumpy vs. other well known brands.

Years ago Pirelli made a comparable design to the Tufo tubular for clincher called Gentleman.

Another, the Wolber Evolution tubular for clincher was not of comparable design to the above mentioned. The design filled up the rims cavity or well.

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Old 10-06-19, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
Actually that is an old concept. Trying to recall the brand or brands at the moment. From the 70's.
I recall Tufo also does this. I have not used them, the color of the sidewalls - kind of a red brick color just did not agree with my visual target.
Agree on the lousy color.
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Old 10-06-19, 08:53 PM
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Tubulars are awesome, till you get a flat, then they kinda suck. Still, great ride when inflated.
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Old 10-06-19, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
Actually that is an old concept. Trying to recall the brand or brands at the moment. From the 70's.
I recall Tufo also does this. I have not used them, the color of the sidewalls - kind of a red brick color just did not agree with my visual target.
Turns black in a very short time.
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Old 10-06-19, 09:00 PM
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I would personally support hating tubulars...haven't used them in 20 years and don't miss them at all. I have been running GatorSkins (generally 23 or 25) on my main road bike since they came out...with thinwall tubes and I'm happy with the weight and the ride. I have NO fond memories of living with tubulars and prefer carrying a spare tube rather than a spare tire.
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Old 10-06-19, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Boxkite View Post
Anybody have experience with Tufo Tape? I used to run Vittorias, 'Wobblers' (Wolbers) and really like Hutchinsons but that was over 30 years ago. I've gotten lazy with clinchers but might try some sew-ups again for giggles. Where's that Vittoria patch kit?
I like it.
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Old 10-06-19, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Psimet2001 says that some (all?) of Donnelly and all of Maxxis's tubulars are now tubeless construction as well, so it's not just one particular tire.

Source: https://www.bikeforums.net/20814612-post54.html
Never said it was.
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Old 10-06-19, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
The Tufo approximates old singletube tires.
They don't have the tubular ride at all. They flat pretty easy.
They don't (ride like tubulars or flat easily).
Not in my experience at all, and not in that of the other people I know who use them.
I'd be interested in knowing how many you've been through.
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