MinnMan

It's depressing that endless iterations of the same argument consistently gain far more attention on this subforum than any actual discussion of race results. Except maybe during the TdF.

I wish you guys would give it a rest, but it's your picnic, you get to choose your mains and your sides.

diphthong

and then there's fantasy pro cycling which gets to harness whatever whenever forever. at the end of the day, it's entertainment for the masses. bona-fides, accuracy and legitimacy co-opt a certain amount of latitude depending on perception, ca$hi$h, media, performance, jingoism, cynicism and sympathy. choose the sport.

slcbob

Yes.

Didn't this forum used to have a warning about PEDs? Heck, I think there used to be a Drugs forum here at BF for a while, and all that talk got moved over there. Which would make this Pro Cycling forum even more of a ghost town, but in a good way. Whether it is doping or legit performance science, it is annoying when the sporting aspects take a back seat to speculation and opinion, no matter how well (rarely) or un- informed. I would love to see there be a physiology and performance discussion place which could house all the science and felonies. And a pony for Christmas, too.

IDK that BF is the venue for it. It certainly isn't for any legit racing discussion. But it's a comfortable spot to sit on the porch with a few old e-friends and chat about the weather. In between throwing rocks at the whipper-snappers with an axe to grind on Strava or Lance or, dag nabbit, just get off my lawn.

79pmooney

"Are the pros getting too powerful?"

One way to bring them down to earth would be to simply make them ride Eddy Merckx-like schedules. Race twice a week, all year. CLassics, Monuments. Two Tours. 6-days. Cyclocross. Won't ever happen. Any rider who chooses such a path would be committing to a lost year. CPA, the teams and and UCI would never stand for it. Merckx rode 1800 races. Over a 12 year stretch, the number of classics, grand tours he rode was staggering and were only maybe a third of his year's diet. With that many races, peaks are near impossible to manage. Altitude training simply does not happen. That three weeks in the Azores - nope. Muscle re-charging 8 weeks off in late fall - nah.

What riders do now vs a few years ago is apples and oranges. I suspect a real part of this was drugs. The EPO days lent themselves to sequestering at altitude or Atlantic islands to drug and train far from the drug controls. But the reality that targeted training instead of weekly racing works has stayed. And is not going to go away.

terrymorse 

For the record, this thread was posted in the General forum (by me), then moved here by a moderator. No my choice.

Jughed

Just watched a great interview with mr cheat himself - Lance.

He covered in depth is training with Dr Ferrari, his methods and the results.

Interesting to say the least.

One key takeaway - at his peak, his best ever - right at 7w/kg for 30 min. His best power ever. Didn't reach that level every year, couldn't reach that level every year - while being doped up to the max.

Anyone close to those levels has to be looked at with some level of skepticism.

force10

I have been listening to the Performance Process podcast from Escape Collective https://escapecollective.com/introdu...ocess-podcast/ . One of the stated goals is to examine how today's riders are equaling or exceeding the performances/speed of the EPO era. There are some who believe that the drugs/doping were preventing riders from exploring the gains available by better nutrition/training/aero/technology because they could always just turn to an injection instead.

I have no idea how prevalent doping is among the peloton today, but it does seem like a number of positive tests can be attributed to mistakes by athletes being unaware of trace amounts of substances in food and actual medicine. Maybe Im just a Pollyanna. But I really hope Pogacar is clean.