Wildwood 

I usually buy fairly expensive tires. Best return on money spent. IMHO. But then I can afford it because I have no bells, no computers, no subscriptions, no power meters, no carbon wheels / handlebars, etc. Tires are a high priority for me, like ... decent brakes.

Troul 

for non competitive road riding, going from wide/fat to narrow/thin would be like going from 2-ply plush toilet paper to 1-ply scotts shop kind. The comfort level & forgiveness in giveness will not be what I would settle for.

smd4

Or like going from a Lincoln Town Car to a Ferrari.

Kapusta

Spent 15 years on 23-25mm tires. First ride on 33mm Jack Brown Green Labels that included some chipseal, and there was no looking back. 35mm Bon Jon Pass is as small a tire as I will even think of running these days. That and 38mm Barlow Pass in Extralight casing have been my go-to tires for years. Any frame that could not clear those is dead to me, now.

Might feel different if the roads I rode were all smooth and clean, but they are not.

Sierra_rider

I believe that 1-ply stuff is called "John Wayne toilet paper."

Why? 'Cuz it don't take s%(@ off nobody!

Troul 

Ferrari on four gaterskins filled with concrete, definitely.

smd4

I admit to never having been in a Ferrari. I did get a 120 mph ride in a 1970s Pantera, however.

I assure you, it felt NOTHING like gatorskins filled with concrete. And it probably felt even better to the guy at the gas pedal.

Sierra_rider

I've gone wider and wider over the years. I started out on 23s, then rode 25s for years. Now I'm up to 30mm GP5k tubeless on my "endurance" ride and 28mm GP5k with TPU tubes in my weight-weenie climbing bike. We've got a lot of chip seal, potholes, cracks, and roads with expansion joints in them. The bike with the 30mm tires is considerably more comfortable, I don't plan on ever going back to 25s.

What was really eye opening for me, was when I set my gravel bike up with some very efficient 42mm tires. These are meant as a gravel "racing" tire and have less measured rolling resistance than many road tires. Comparing wattage and segment times, it's surprising how close the gravel bike is to the road bikes on road segments. Makes me even consider upsizing my 30s to 32s next time I have to get new tires.

icemilkcoffee 

I don't know how much you and your bike weigh, but 120-130psi seems way too high for 700x25 clinchers.

Maelochs

I know how much I weigh ... and most of the narrow tires i used have max pressures of 115-125 psi--and those are 23s. Not sure which tires he is using and not sure he is following recommended procedure. very sure I don't care. But yeah ... pretty sure that is over the max recommended for almost all the 23s and all the 25s I have ever seen.

Chacun à son goût.

Troul 

there are times to play the game of chance, when it comes to toilet paper, that's not where I do..do it at own's risk.

Mtracer

I have a friend who rides 25's and we ran the tire pressure calculators and his optimal was calculated much lower than he runs. Probably something like 80 PSI versus the 110 he runs. Something like that. He's so used to the road buzz indicating speed, that the lower pressure and faster setup, just feels slow to him, so he continues with the higher pressure. Old dogs and all that.

I'm relatively new to riding (~5 years) and the lower pressure thing was already established when I started. So, to me smooth is what I both know and feel to be faster. I don't race and therefore don't corner fast, so squirminess in corners isn't a thing for me.

But in the end, if you're not racing, and not obsessing about numbers, than all that matters is what maximizes your enjoyment.

Alan K

Several decades ago, all of my road bikes had 23mm tires at about 80 PSI. During the last two decades, I have started using 25mm on the newer bikes I purchased. The pressure in 25mm tires is usually about 70 PSI. There are a couple of bikes with 28 mm tires at about 60-65 PSI. One bicycle has a 32 mm tire at around 55-60 PSI. None of the tires have wire beads, they are all foldable.
[I am not including a couple of sets of wheels with tubulars in this list, one is around 23mm (used at 100 PSI) and the other is around 32 for gravel. It has been quite a while since tubulars were used.]
Two relatively light bikes (17.5-18.5 lb range) are still used with 23mm tires. On occasions when I have put a 25 mm or 28mm on one, I can tell the difference in ride very easily. With 25 mm and 28 mm, ride seems a bit dull. With 23 mm wheel set, the ride is crisp and bicycles seems to go on its own almost without an effort.
My rides includes a mix of paved and packed dirt bike paths. If I’m going a little longer distance (> 16 miles), the unpaved trail is not always fit for using 23mm tires but a 2-3 mm increase combined with a little lower pressure, does surprisingly better as long as the path isn’t wet or muddy.

Sierra_rider

Bargain TP has the dubious distinction of combining the ruggedness of a wet Kleenex, with the soft caress of a Scotchbrite pad. Outside of being used to stock pit toilets, you really can't trust a person who willingly wastes money on John Wayne toilet paper.

Troul 

x2
I did run a [tubed] road tire setup using lower "suggested" psi & it made a noticeable tire hum with some perceived slower MPH averages. It didnt really drive me further to investigate it once I went away from those tires that, aside from being puncture prone. I forgotten details about.

Every day is a race to get no where fast. that's my thoughts with the indoor trainer.

Outrider1

Currently ride GP5K 25s at 85 rear, 75 front on my road bike. Went to 28s and really didn't care for the ride. It's all subjective but they felt a bit duller even though I experimented with differing pressures. Went back to the 25s. As a disclaimer, I live in Central Florida and the roads are smooth and clean and the MUPs are a dream and meticulously maintained.

chaadster

Although I’m more generally concerned with going fast and handling than comfort, I’ve run all kinds of tire widths on the road and can say that aerodynamics of the wheel/tire combo is probably more important to performance than just talking about width alone, or even width and pressure together.

Having a appropriately wide, aero rim for the actual tire width is the key, the equalizer. Replacing an aero-optimal 23mm tire/rim combo with a 28mm tire is not going to be faster or handle better. Matching a wide rim to that 28 can create conditions where the wider tire *is* actually faster, melding aero gains, rolling resistance improvements, handling, and comfort into a magic whole.

So for me, it’s more important to have an optimized tire/rim pairing than just having wider or narrower tires, and I’d prefer a narrower tire in an optimized setup than a wider tire on a non-optimized rim…for fast road riding on pavement.

If we start talking about dirt roads, or truly horrible pavement, the calculation changes as controlling the ride and comfort become much bigger factors in performance than they are on typical paved roads.

In short, yes, I’ve gone back to 25s from 30s; it’s something I do every season switching from the winter/spring roadie to the fast summer roadie, but only because I can’t fit wheels aero-optimized for wider-than-25mm rubber on the fast roadie.

KerryIrons

Do you ride them all at the same pressure? It's hard to believe you can't feel the difference with many psi less in a 28 than a 23.

KerryIrons

Yes, but wider tires mean a more comfortable ride, better traction, and longer tire wear. The only penalty is a few more grams, which means next to nothing in the real world. But hey, you do you.

smd4

I've never had a problem with comfort or traction. When my tires wear out I just buy new ones. No biggie.

Next?

Koyote

And you forgot this one: skinny tires pumped to rock-hard psi are slower than somewhat wider tires at lower psi in real-world riding conditions.

smd4

Luckily, I'm not in a race.

Koyote

Sure, but it's still a mystery: you're choosing poorer performance on every metric -- speed, comfort, durability -- for no apparent gain.

You do you, of course. But it's weird. Perhaps you should try something different and see if you prefer it.

rsbob 

And we all know how well a Ferrari rides. Thanks for making the point.

seypat

What if you're one of those riders that doesn't record data? Or like me, you record the data but only look at it for bike maintenance purposes. It's not important to some.