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Culture change

Old 03-29-20, 10:56 AM
  #26  
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IMO one of three things will happen...

1; The virus peters out and social distancing also peters out...
2; The virus just keeps on and on and everyone gets it or not, and lives or dies, until a vaccine is found and social distancing is here to stay...
3; The virus mutates and starts to kill most people and society falls apart...

and... if you think I am exaggerating...
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world...cid=spartandhp

also...
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world...cid=spartandhp

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Old 03-29-20, 04:55 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
In my opinion just looking form how easy it was to give up sporting events, concerts, and restaurants I would say it is very likely the change will be long lasting.
I am not aware that it was 'easy' to give up the things you mention. It was relatively easy to issue the orders to suspend them. The moving parts of a sports franchise centers around 5 to 11 individuals. You tell them to stay home and Bob's your uncle. Closing schools ... was that 'easy'? Let's admit it, many of us had a love/hate relationship with consumption. Some of us are glad to have the decision to go out for that restaurant meal taken away from us. The ongoing lack of access to gyms, hair salons, libraries, museums, etc. ... that's society we're talking about. We suspend that at our peril. When one is in the throes of acute respiratory failure I don't imagine one cares much about anything other than getting better. What about if/when one is perfectly healthy? Has there ever been, in human history, recorded or otherwise, a time when perfectly healthy people sheltered in place for months on end? Whose bright idea was this?
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Old 03-29-20, 05:31 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
I am not aware that it was 'easy' to give up the things you mention. It was relatively easy to issue the orders to suspend them. The moving parts of a sports franchise centers around 5 to 11 individuals. You tell them to stay home and Bob's your uncle. Closing schools ... was that 'easy'? Let's admit it, many of us had a love/hate relationship with consumption. Some of us are glad to have the decision to go out for that restaurant meal taken away from us. The ongoing lack of access to gyms, hair salons, libraries, museums, etc. ... that's society we're talking about. We suspend that at our peril. When one is in the throes of acute respiratory failure I don't imagine one cares much about anything other than getting better. What about if/when one is perfectly healthy? Has there ever been, in human history, recorded or otherwise, a time when perfectly healthy people sheltered in place for months on end? Whose bright idea was this?
and... There's the tilting point of the problem we/the world is/are facing... There actually was times like today in the past... On the one side 2%, maybe as high as 10%, of people dying versus society crumbling but we need to just carry on... or, do we do what ancient society's did and close up shop, (kill anyone coming from another village)???... The difference is of course 30% dying of the black plague and no medical help, compared to 2% to 10% dying and lots of medical help. So... we go with plan "A", BUT, It does not mean plan "B" will not be required... I do believe the U.S.military is presently set to deploying to the border to Canada, as we speak... Just saying... I would "suspect, that that would change society a bit" maybe just a little bit, a teeny tiny, bit, but it WILL change things..??? of course it will...

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Old 03-29-20, 10:12 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
My question is do we think this is a long lasting change? Will population planners have to rethink stuffing as many people into as small of a place to work, shop and live as they had done before this pandemic? In my opinion just looking form how easy it was to give up sporting events, concerts, and restaurants I would say it is very likely the change will be long lasting. COVID-19
Hopefully!!

One of the best things about all this is that it is considered socially acceptable to maintain distance between one person and the next. That's wonderful!!
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Old 03-29-20, 11:29 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
Hopefully!!

One of the best things about all this is that it is considered socially acceptable to maintain distance between one person and the next. That's wonderful!!
Yes, and it is becoming more acceptable every week.
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Old 03-30-20, 08:03 AM
  #31  
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Sorry to be late to the thread. Bad as pandemics are I don't think de-densifying or getting rid of mass transit will save lives. Motor vehicle deaths dwarf pandemic deaths in the long run, for one thing, Also, these kinds of diseases eventually spread everywhere.and rural areas are not necessarily "safe" . We have a constellation of cases in the small community of Bobcaygeon, 2 hours outside of Toronto for example.

True story and also a Canadian insider joke - sorry to piggyback that onto a tragedy.
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Old 03-30-20, 11:14 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
Sorry to be late to the thread. Bad as pandemics are I don't think de-densifying or getting rid of mass transit will save lives. Motor vehicle deaths dwarf pandemic deaths in the long run, for one thing, Also, these kinds of diseases eventually spread everywhere.and rural areas are not necessarily "safe" . We have a constellation of cases in the small community of Bobcaygeon, 2 hours outside of Toronto for example.

True story and also a Canadian insider joke - sorry to piggyback that onto a tragedy.
We all understand it could spread to every place. But we also see social distancing has helped to flatten the curve. South Korea and the USA have similar precautions and the death and infection rate is low. Countries that were late to isolation and social distancing didn't do so well. No one is pushing for more people to take mass transit at this point nor would it do any good. In some places passengers that do ride mass transit are forced to board through the back door only and not get withing 6 feet of the driver.

Yes more people are killed by car accidents but more have died from the flu as well plus add drug overdose. But this is every bit as contagious as the common cold, or so I have read.

So the government, CDC and medical community are suggesting not getting into a dense area of humans if you can avoid it. Could it be an over reaction? Maybe but it is effecting the thinking of everyone. Like I said people don't shake hands anymore, hugging is close to non existent. Mass transit is down a lot in New York and San Francisco, I posted links I think earlier. People are leaving the denser areas and communities are trying to stop others from coming into them. I am not judging if the actions are right or wrong only that the actions are happening and the attitudes towards going anywhere that large groups of people are has waned.

It may be different in other countries but I see a change in social attitudes that I am not convinced will return to "normal". If you look at Rhode Islands going door to door looking for people that came there from New York and New Jersey. This "seems like a cultural or social change to me and I am not sure it will go away if this pandemic simply proves seasonal. Countries are closing boarders, ours is considering putting the national guard on the boarders to screen people coming in. If this last much longer mass transit in some areas hear will not last. I don't think.
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Old 03-31-20, 08:40 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
We all understand it could spread to every place. But we also see social distancing has helped to flatten the curve. South Korea and the USA have similar precautions and the death and infection rate is low. Countries that were late to isolation and social distancing didn't do so well. No one is pushing for more people to take mass transit at this point nor would it do any good. In some places passengers that do ride mass transit are forced to board through the back door only and not get withing 6 feet of the driver.

Yes more people are killed by car accidents but more have died from the flu as well plus add drug overdose. But this is every bit as contagious as the common cold, or so I have read.

So the government, CDC and medical community are suggesting not getting into a dense area of humans if you can avoid it. Could it be an over reaction? Maybe but it is effecting the thinking of everyone. Like I said people don't shake hands anymore, hugging is close to non existent. Mass transit is down a lot in New York and San Francisco, I posted links I think earlier. People are leaving the denser areas and communities are trying to stop others from coming into them. I am not judging if the actions are right or wrong only that the actions are happening and the attitudes towards going anywhere that large groups of people are has waned.

It may be different in other countries but I see a change in social attitudes that I am not convinced will return to "normal". If you look at Rhode Islands going door to door looking for people that came there from New York and New Jersey. This "seems like a cultural or social change to me and I am not sure it will go away if this pandemic simply proves seasonal. Countries are closing boarders, ours is considering putting the national guard on the boarders to screen people coming in. If this last much longer mass transit in some areas hear will not last. I don't think.
To use your own example, South Korea is doing much better than the US despite being much denser and having a lot more mass transit.
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Old 03-31-20, 11:42 PM
  #34  
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Motor vehicle traffic has died off here and public transportation is hardly used right now.

Why?

Because everyone is at home!! Or most people are. That's the direction I've felt society could have gone years ago, but it has taken a pandemic to do it.
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Old 04-01-20, 01:10 AM
  #35  
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This will all be over soon, and life will return to normal.

Most people that get it will recover and be immune to it. Then it wont matter if they are exposed to it again.

The leaders know, we need people back at work to avoid severe financial problems. I am sure they are looking at ways to get things back to normal.
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Old 04-01-20, 01:36 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by alo View Post
This will all be over soon, and life will return to normal.

Most people that get it will recover and be immune to it. Then it wont matter if they are exposed to it again.

The leaders know, we need people back at work to avoid severe financial problems. I am sure they are looking at ways to get things back to normal.
If by "soon" you mean 1-2 years, then yes ... "soon".

And it'll likely be a NEW normal.
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Old 04-01-20, 02:51 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
If by "soon" you mean 1-2 years, then yes ... "soon".

And it'll likely be a NEW normal.
People see how things are now, and think this will go on for a long time. Things will happen in the not-too-distant future that will surprise many people.
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Old 04-01-20, 03:28 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by alo View Post
People see how things are now, and think this will go on for a long time. Things will happen in the not-too-distant future that will surprise many people.
Such as people finding that they actually like the way things are now and want them to continue this way?
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Old 04-01-20, 08:02 AM
  #39  
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So, will the 3ft passing rule necessarily change to 6 feet?
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Old 04-01-20, 12:14 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Digger Goreman View Post
So, will the 3ft passing rule necessarily change to 6 feet?
At least. Unless you are in Italy or Spain, then no cycling allowed so no0 one to pass.
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Old 04-01-20, 12:15 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Digger Goreman View Post
So, will the 3ft passing rule necessarily change to 6 feet?
At least. Unless you are in Italy or Spain, then no cycling allowed so no one to pass.
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Old 04-01-20, 12:33 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
To use your own example, South Korea is doing much better than the US despite being much denser and having a lot more mass transit.
However there are fewer people and getting them to stay in place was a lot easier. Here our largest and most dense urban areas are hit the hardest. And while it could spread to less dense area social distancing is a whole lot easier when people are not that close to start with. New York, Chicago, Detroit, LA. Seattle are hot spots and they all got hit about the same time. And they have a harder time social distancing if media reports can be believed. However here is an interesting on what "is" going on around the world. Urban areas are hardest hit now and will likely stay that way till there is some king of cure.

https://www.wri.org/blog/2020/03/cov...yre-coping-now
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Old 04-02-20, 03:56 AM
  #43  
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I don't think that Cities are dead. Transit rider ship is down 70% in Denver. Civilization was built on cities/towns/villages. The US in the late 20th century is built along the suburbs. Besides our infrastructure cannot handle all the cars of the suburbs. As a country, we prioritize entertainment, prisons, and military...etc. The results of suburbanization is social isolation, less bicycle friendly, more obese people, and fast food. You can take precautions by wearing masks and gloves. I prefer to be around people have lived the commuting life. Not for me. No thank you. Some transit agencies are free during this time. We're supposed to stay home. I ride my bike to work and have been enjoying less crowded roads. Our air quality has been better. Grocery shopping is getting better. You can always get your groceries delivered. I also ride a scooter around and love seeing people interact.
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