Need to adjust captain fit/reach What are my options?
03-09-20, 02:54 PM
#26
Member
Thread Starter
Installed this 70mm, 35 degree stem, moved the spacer down, and did a test ride today - an unseasonably warm day for March in New England - and it feels much better. I’m not going to claim done yet because I still want to move the grips in but I think progress is being made.
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03-10-20, 05:41 AM
#27
Junior Member
Installed this 70mm, 35 degree stem, moved the spacer down, and did a test ride today - an unseasonably warm day for March in New England - and it feels much better. I’m not going to claim done yet because I still want to move the grips in but I think progress is being made.
And you can have another one or two test-rides before finally cutting off the bar.
(It just looks a little strange ;-)
…one thought about your picture: When fastening the bar at the stem I usually look
for an equal distribution of space (an equal gap) at the head plate of the stem.
Looking at the picture (and seeing the big gap on top and the long part of the thread of the screw),
I would assume that there’s hardly any gap left over at the other side.
You would probably want to correct that in your next setup.
Successful adjusting and happy test-rides
03-10-20, 02:32 PM
#28
Member
Just two points that have not been adressed yet:
- you could move your saddle more to the front (if its not in the maximum position yet). This will bring you closer to the steering bar and make you sit more upright. It will also open up your hips. I have my saddle adjusted to the maximum front position and tilted downwards by 15 degrees. It made a huge difference for the hip, lower back and perineal area by removing pressure and shifting it more to the seatbones.
- you could try alternative handlebars like the koga denham or the velo orange crazy bar. They offer multiple hand positions so you can switch them around while you ride. This can help to release some pressure and relax certain muscles, rather then riding in one position for extended periods of time. Swept-in handlebars, as previously mentioned, are a good idea in general.
Good luck and have fun with your new bike!
- you could move your saddle more to the front (if its not in the maximum position yet). This will bring you closer to the steering bar and make you sit more upright. It will also open up your hips. I have my saddle adjusted to the maximum front position and tilted downwards by 15 degrees. It made a huge difference for the hip, lower back and perineal area by removing pressure and shifting it more to the seatbones.
- you could try alternative handlebars like the koga denham or the velo orange crazy bar. They offer multiple hand positions so you can switch them around while you ride. This can help to release some pressure and relax certain muscles, rather then riding in one position for extended periods of time. Swept-in handlebars, as previously mentioned, are a good idea in general.
Good luck and have fun with your new bike!
03-10-20, 05:08 PM
#29
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Just two points that have not been adressed yet:
- you could move your saddle more to the front (if its not in the maximum position yet). This will bring you closer to the steering bar and make you sit more upright. It will also open up your hips. I have my saddle adjusted to the maximum front position and tilted downwards by 15 degrees. It made a huge difference for the hip, lower back and perineal area by removing pressure and shifting it more to the seatbones.
- you could try alternative handlebars like the koga denham or the velo orange crazy bar. They offer multiple hand positions so you can switch them around while you ride. This can help to release some pressure and relax certain muscles, rather then riding in one position for extended periods of time. Swept-in handlebars, as previously mentioned, are a good idea in general.
Good luck and have fun with your new bike!
- you could move your saddle more to the front (if its not in the maximum position yet). This will bring you closer to the steering bar and make you sit more upright. It will also open up your hips. I have my saddle adjusted to the maximum front position and tilted downwards by 15 degrees. It made a huge difference for the hip, lower back and perineal area by removing pressure and shifting it more to the seatbones.
- you could try alternative handlebars like the koga denham or the velo orange crazy bar. They offer multiple hand positions so you can switch them around while you ride. This can help to release some pressure and relax certain muscles, rather then riding in one position for extended periods of time. Swept-in handlebars, as previously mentioned, are a good idea in general.
Good luck and have fun with your new bike!
Actually, I'm going to have to call you on your first suggestion above. Saddle fore-aft position is determined by foot size, femur length and cleat position. The traditional way to achieve proper biodynamics is dropping a plumb bob off the patella of the front leg with the pedals level. Saddle should be adjusted so the plumb bob bisects the axle spindle. People then adjust accordingly, depending on pedaling style, joint flexibility and other factors. Saddle fore-aft should not be used to achieve proper handlebar reach. Changing top tube length, stem angle and length, and steer tube length, as well as handlebar choice are the appropriate dimensions to adjust. This is a very common mistake made by people new to bicycle fit.
03-10-20, 07:43 PM
#30
Member
Thread Starter
…one thought about your picture: When fastening the bar at the stem I usually look
for an equal distribution of space (an equal gap) at the head plate of the stem.
Looking at the picture (and seeing the big gap on top and the long part of the thread of the screw),
I would assume that there’s hardly any gap left over at the other side.
You would probably want to correct that in your next setup.
Successful adjusting and happy test-rides
for an equal distribution of space (an equal gap) at the head plate of the stem.
Looking at the picture (and seeing the big gap on top and the long part of the thread of the screw),
I would assume that there’s hardly any gap left over at the other side.
You would probably want to correct that in your next setup.
Successful adjusting and happy test-rides
03-11-20, 04:22 AM
#31
Member
Actually, I'm going to have to call you on your first suggestion above. Saddle fore-aft position is determined by foot size, femur length and cleat position. The traditional way to achieve proper biodynamics is dropping a plumb bob off the patella of the front leg with the pedals level. Saddle should be adjusted so the plumb bob bisects the axle spindle. People then adjust accordingly, depending on pedaling style, joint flexibility and other factors. Saddle fore-aft should not be used to achieve proper handlebar reach. Changing top tube length, stem angle and length, and steer tube length, as well as handlebar choice are the appropriate dimensions to adjust. This is a very common mistake made by people new to bicycle fit.
However, since it is a new bike i just wanted to point it out. In case the saddle position has not been optimized yet, the fore-aft will also slightly affect the reach and the seating position, i.e. angle of the back and neck.
But as you pointed out, one should not sacrifice one for the other and adjust the cockpit in case that the saddle is already optimal.
In any case, it never hurts to try slight adjustments as long as they improve the overall fit.
Last edited by rocknrollin; 03-11-20 at 04:25 AM.
03-11-20, 09:36 AM
#32
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I'm sure the gap is the same top/bottom. Even if you didn't go out of your way to ensure it, the lower screws would not tighten beyond what would bring the cap of the stem in contact with the bar. Maybe that stem can accommodate both 31.8 and 25.4 bars? I've never heard of such a thing, but <shrug> the bars seem to fit anyway. TBH I'm not sure anything can be judged from that picture. The magnification distorts what, to my eyes, does not look all that unusual. FWIW.
03-11-20, 09:58 AM
#33
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Not always the coolest things but check out this adjustable stem https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I know adjustable stems aren't the coolest but this one attaches over the top like a steerer extender and has a nice form of adjustment. It doesn't loose as much length as the typical threadless style. I've installed 2 of them so far and have been impressed by the quality.
I know adjustable stems aren't the coolest but this one attaches over the top like a steerer extender and has a nice form of adjustment. It doesn't loose as much length as the typical threadless style. I've installed 2 of them so far and have been impressed by the quality.
03-11-20, 10:54 AM
#34
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I'm certain that the advice to strengthen your core is good advice. I should heed this (but I don't).
Trying to get bikes to fit me better recently I have ordered a series of stems of varying lengths & rises from ebay. They are very cheap and allow you to try various geometries easily.
Trying to get bikes to fit me better recently I have ordered a series of stems of varying lengths & rises from ebay. They are very cheap and allow you to try various geometries easily.
03-15-20, 10:34 AM
#35
Member
Thread Starter
Well, I tried moving the controls inboard all the way to the flare to see what radically narrower feels like. I think it's a bit too narrow. It felt okay just cruising but when we stood up it felt restricted and a bit more squirrelly than I like. I moved them back out a bit and we'll see how this feels.
Grips and controls all the way in
Moved back out a bit.
Grips and controls all the way in
Moved back out a bit.
03-15-20, 12:07 PM
#36
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Bike fit - yes. I'm not a tandem rider at all but handlebar fit to my hands and their width has been a paramount fit issue for me forever. (Now, as a tandem captain, I'd go a little wider than optimum for better control but not a whole lot. 38-40 is my optimum road bike width and what I raced a few million years ago. 40 is still my go to for the road but I go as wide as 43 for my mountain climbing fix gears for better control downhill. (My tandem joke is that my fix gear is half a tandem. Captain from the waist up, bike from the head tube forward and stoker from the waist down and bottom bracket back. Captain steers, chooses the gear and whether to coast. Stoker pedals. Now on this "half-tandem' the captain never coasts! (not even down hill!) and only changes gears when stopped. Total tyrant! The fix gear stoker needs to have a captain with good control! So the bar width issue is very similar!
I am just as fussy about bar shape but that is so personal I'll skip sharing it here.
So I go at a new bike knowing the bars and where they need to be. (And an aside that could be important here - the location of the bars; I reference the tops, ie the center of the stem clamp, to keep things simple. For me, that point needs to lie on a line that rises as it goes forward. Again, for me, that line has a "slope" of 2 cm horizontal to 1 cm in line with the steerer. (Since the steerer is not vertical, this is not a true slope but for the old horizontal stemmed bike, very convenient.) ;
So I draw the front end of the bike back to the BB and sketch in the line. Locate the top of the head tube and estimate how far above that the stem intersection will be with the spacers I intend to use. Now it is just finding a stem of length and angle to reach a point on the line. (Now, where that point lands matters as to bike feel but not to back lean and reach. If you think about it, you can see that for your preferred position, you can swing your arms a little and your hands will form a short arc. That arc, for small distances, can be replaced with a line. Any position on that line (again for short distances) will be equally comfortable and natural with the closer/lower being more "race-like" and higher and forward more like a stretched time-trial position. Raising this line brings you more upright with (if you want) more arm bend and feels less "competitive". As your shoulders come up and back, the line also comes up and gets steeper. Probably considerably steeper than my 1:2 "slope" I can still ride my old racing bikes.
Kinda long winded but maybe this will help. But do get a fit to get a solid starting point. I lucked out 45 years ago when the head mechanic at the shop I worked said I should buy last year's racing bike in the basement, Fit me like a dream with all the adjustments in the middle. Minutes were falling off my training ride from the beginning. My rides over the years have gone to further forward and higher on that same line. Now the line is and inch or two higher. I have 5 bikes, all equally comfortable. I do have to remember that on some I have to reach a little further forward for the bars. I've had some near misses coming down from no-hands!
My little obsession.
Ben
I am just as fussy about bar shape but that is so personal I'll skip sharing it here.
So I go at a new bike knowing the bars and where they need to be. (And an aside that could be important here - the location of the bars; I reference the tops, ie the center of the stem clamp, to keep things simple. For me, that point needs to lie on a line that rises as it goes forward. Again, for me, that line has a "slope" of 2 cm horizontal to 1 cm in line with the steerer. (Since the steerer is not vertical, this is not a true slope but for the old horizontal stemmed bike, very convenient.) ;
So I draw the front end of the bike back to the BB and sketch in the line. Locate the top of the head tube and estimate how far above that the stem intersection will be with the spacers I intend to use. Now it is just finding a stem of length and angle to reach a point on the line. (Now, where that point lands matters as to bike feel but not to back lean and reach. If you think about it, you can see that for your preferred position, you can swing your arms a little and your hands will form a short arc. That arc, for small distances, can be replaced with a line. Any position on that line (again for short distances) will be equally comfortable and natural with the closer/lower being more "race-like" and higher and forward more like a stretched time-trial position. Raising this line brings you more upright with (if you want) more arm bend and feels less "competitive". As your shoulders come up and back, the line also comes up and gets steeper. Probably considerably steeper than my 1:2 "slope" I can still ride my old racing bikes.
Kinda long winded but maybe this will help. But do get a fit to get a solid starting point. I lucked out 45 years ago when the head mechanic at the shop I worked said I should buy last year's racing bike in the basement, Fit me like a dream with all the adjustments in the middle. Minutes were falling off my training ride from the beginning. My rides over the years have gone to further forward and higher on that same line. Now the line is and inch or two higher. I have 5 bikes, all equally comfortable. I do have to remember that on some I have to reach a little further forward for the bars. I've had some near misses coming down from no-hands!
My little obsession.
Ben
