Murray Missile 

My Mother-In-Law's neighbor listed a bunch of bikes on CL a week or so ago, most are newer low end MTB's but there are few older steel MTB's. An old Fuji basket case with not so great paint but complete, cheap and the right size to do a drop bar conversion. A pretty decent Yokota Ahwahnee that's on the small side and a not too bad Nishiki Ariel that's big enough. Something about the Nishiki's fork and elevated stays intrigues me and if it's still there Saturday I'm going to take a look at it. Any idea what year it may be? Sorry about the picture but she never takes them from the drive side even though every time I talk to her I remind her to.

Velo Mule

I thought that the elevated chainstays were a clever design. I think it fell out of favor because the only problem it solves is being able to remove the chain without breaking it. Are there other advantages?

I still think it is interesting though. The fork on this bike looks straight, is there a tab there like a BMX fork for the dropouts.

It is different then the standard mountain bike. If you buy it, keep us posted with pictures. Perhaps then, we can get a drive side shot.

Kuromori

It helps prevent chain jams from chainsuck since there's no chainstay for it to jam into. It also helps with mud clearance as normal chainstays are lower to the ground, and there's a tight fit jamming a chainstay between fat tires and chainrings, which is why chainstays are the only frame tubes that are consistently ovalized or crimped.

DorkDisk

Also, chainslap was minimized and some brands took the opportunity to run shorter chainstays (Alpinestars comes to mind). And they looked radical, when looking radical was important.

Disadvantages: Heavier, flexier laterally, harder to manufacture, weird cable routing

I had a Haro Extreme BITD. Still have one. Many of these e-stays broke (Alpinestars, Haro).

mstateglfr 

I'm not sure of the year, but I can offer up that the Cummingham e-stay design hit in '89, so it isn't older than that.

OTS 

Check the serial number to determine the date. according to T Mar's serial # database if it starts W9******

I would venture a guess it is an '89

Most e-stays were around for a relatively short time period, it is a design that fell out of favor but i think they are cool in a "unique" kind of way

T-Mar

Nishiki introduced elevated chainstays on the Alien in 1989. However, the Ariel still used a traditional rear triangle and didn't receive elevated chainstays until the 1990 model year. Based on the presence of the interstay struts and the Nishiki logo with the Cunningham Design label, this should be a 1990 model. In which case, the component group is Shimano Deore DX and the MSRP was $699 US.

While all the previously mentioned pros and cons are legitimate, the prime design factor was the ability to run fatter tyres due to the wider lateral spacing permitted by not having to bend the stays inwards to clear the chainrings and attach to the BB shell. A 1990 Ariel would have been spec'd with 2.10" tyres, something not achievable on standard chainstays without severe crimping or ovalization.

Murray Missile 

Thanks everyone! It's been on CL awhile so I'm not too worried about being gone before I can go look at it. There don't seem to be that many tall people around my area with my "eclectic" taste for odd and obscure vintage bicycles LOL. I think I'll make her an offer and see if she'll throw in the Fuji basket case. It's rough and not complete as I had originally thought but I can do something with it and anything it is missing I already have, it would make a good drop bar gravel beater. It's a Suncrest if that means anything. Of course this is the would be one bike she takes from the drive side LOL. Is that a Deerhead Deore front derailleur I see? Too bad it doesn't have one on the rear.........

Velo Mule

I thought that there may be more to elevated chainstays. But those issues are still present. With this Nishiki Ariel it appears that the rear triangle should be fairly rigid because the chainstays come forward to the down tube and are supported at the seat tube. The down side being that it would be a little heavier than a standard diamond frame mountain bike. I would get it even if you are not going to put 2.1" tires on it and run it through the muck, because it is interesting.

Murray Missile 

You read my mind.

Murray Missile 

Well, the deed is done, she accepted my offer plus threw in 3 or 4 more wheels AND a 3rd bike, well, a BSO but hey free is free. The Nishiki is all original except for the saddle and possibly the seat post but the post is decent and period correct (Based on pictures I've found of other 1990 Ariels I now believe the seat post IS original.). It's more scratched up than it looked in the pictures but they're all small and it still shines pretty well. RH shifter isn't working, I'll try the WD-40 "rebuild in a can" on it. I think it will clean up to be a cool old rider. I believe the Fuji is a 1986 or 1987 and it does have a Deerhead FD plus it's original triple crankset, canti brakes and thumb shifters but the bottom clamps are missing from the shifters. RD is a 2K something Alivio or Acera. It's scratched up pretty badly and has lots of surface rust. It may be a candidate for a custom rattle can repaint. I only got one pair of matching wheel with it but they are the cheapest of the cheapest things. I did get one decent front and one decent rear wheel but they aren't even close to a match. Both have been put away util next season.




Now, for the "freebie"........... I may have overpaid for it but here it is, a "Baycrest Hurricane". Lugged gaspipe frame with stamped dropouts and not a braze on in sight with nylon "cable guides". I wish those fenders weren't so rusty because they are as straight and dent free as can be. I may be able to do something with this one though, I think it might be a fun project. I didn't have room for it so I'll pick it up next week on my way home from work.

Once again, her pictures, not mine.......





Kind of wish the Yokota Ahwahnee was my size, from the pictures it's a pretty decent all original bike and it could be bought pretty reasonably.

T-Mar

The last year for 1st generation Deore XT with the stag's head was 1986. The exact frame manufacture date can be confirmed from the serial number.

The Yokota arrears to have a Shiomano 500LX rear derailleur. which woulkd make it a 1991 model.

Murray Missile 

I'll check the SN on the Fuji tomorrow. The FD is "probably" the original but it's been so molested I wouldn't want to say it is for sure. It's in really nice condition though, wish I had the RD to go with it. Pretty sure the Fuji was picked up off the curb or pulled out of a dumpster. Same for the Baycrest.

SN on the Nishiki is W90034XXX.

I'm leaving the Yokota for the next guy, just too small for me.

Korina

Zombie thread alert : Zombie thread alert : Zombie thread alert :

Poking around CL south of me, I found this Ariel. Yes, it's ridiculously overpriced, but after two weeks, the owner might take a more reasonable $200.



Doing a google search, I found this one in the same city. (Can't post the pics.) Also overpriced, but in better condition.

Thoughts? Opinions? I find it kind of interesting; only the prices are making me hesitate.

Jeff Wills

Yeah, I get that this is a zombie but...

I was going to suggest that you get in touch with Richard Cunningham at Pinkbike.com but it appears he's retired:
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/rc-ret...unningham.html

Weird connection: I was in the same Schwinn School class as him in 1980. I think he did better in the bicycle business than I did.

3speedslow

There is one around where I am. They all seem to start out with insane pricing.

Murray Missile 

YIKES!!! I'm feeling REALLY good about what I gave for mine right now!

PugRider

Super-interesting bike, but $675 is just comical. With the “unmolested—that means original” rusty chain, gross and exposed-at-the-bar-ends foam grips, ratty Specialized saddle thrown on there, and God knows what else that will need replaced. No shame at all these days.

That said, I would totally welcome one of these into my stable, and it’s got the splatter goin on, to boot.

mstateglfr 

splatter paint + elevated chainstays = 90s awesome.
It isnt $675 awesome, but its for sure cooler than the typical 90s rigid that shows up on CL.

bark_eater 

I picked up one with the same paint for $125 a while back, off of facebook market place. It took a bit leg work though. I needed to negotiate a long distant transaction, and was trying to rope a couple different people, into picking it up for me. In all the back and forth I thought it would be clever to make a Nigerian prince joke. I was promptly blocked. So I had to create a new face book account to contact the seller and It happened to be still available months later when I could pick it up in person. I made no further mention of my royal lineage. The particular reason I was interested was the potential for fat tires with a very short effective chain stay leangth. A rear fender will take some trickery though.

Het Volk

Maybe what was old, is new again. But this seems to be solving the same issue that the dropped chainstay design does now, which is allow for better tire clearance (since tightest point for tire clearance in the rear is the spor where the tire, chainstay and chain ring meet. This eliminates that issue. Honestly, would be great to see this design re-invigorated by some custom builders or the like of Soma or Surly.

Jmpierce

Was there ever any problems with these forks? It seems thinner than the forks on my road bikes.

bark_eater 

I did a bit of research on these bikes and didn't come across any reports of fork "problems" A couple folks have replaced the forks, and I have kept an eye out for a fork with more rake to try on mine, as I plan on putting the biggest tires that will fit on this bike, which will raise the bikes trail. I'm not sure if the present fork will max out before the rear end, but if it does, that's another reason to change the fork. I probably wont pull this bike down till 2023.. How that for Zombie foreshadowing?

T-Mar

You are correct. The clearance for fatter tyres was a major consideration in the design, However, there were other advatages. It helped to aleviate chain suck, eliminated chain slap, allowed for a shorter effective chainstay length and allowed for a wider range of chainring choices.

As for dropped chainstys, they are nothing new. While not as radical as current offerings, Schwinn introduced their G-Force chainstays circa 1990.

T-Mar

The smaller section fork blades of the era were adequately stiff and strong due to steel that was generally thicker than oversize fork blades.