TheGefish

I recently went to the beach and had a low speed spill (pitifully slow really), sand everywhere, not good. I tried to blow off as much as I could but couldn't shift into a smaller gear in the back and ended up just spinning my legs off back home.. I got home and tried playing with the cable/tension but couldn't get the chain to stick to the largest gear or move beyond the 3rd largest gear. I took some compressed air to the levers and rear derailleur and cleared off most of the sand (I hope). I'm not sure if it's a problem with the levers or if I need to make some adjustments to the derailleur itself. Any ideas?

Running all 105 components.

Link for the pictures. I'm more than happy to take more if need be.

dsbrantjr

It sounds like you have bent your rear derailleur and/or hanger. Take it into a shop a both and have them check and align both and set your shifiting up properly.

Be very careful that you do not shift the chain into the spokes at the rear, as it is probably bent inwards and can shift farther inboard than before; the limit screw will not stop it in the right spot any more.

TheGefish

Luckily I've got a dork disc, but it doesn't seem to be going past the sprockets towards the spokes. Heck, the chain won't even stay put on the largest cog unless I hold the lever towards it. Could it be that the alignment got messed up and that things are simply out of tune? Nothing looks overtly bent or out of position. I'll update my original post with pictures and if anybody demands specific pictures I'll be more than happy to follow suit.

FBinNY 

As said above, you might have bent the hanger, so whatever you do, be sure to doublecheck the limit screws especially the inner one.

But, the hanger would have bent inward, and that doesn't correspond to what you're reporting. Start by testing the RD without using the levers. Shift it through the range (paying particular attention to the limits) by pulling the bare wire away from the frame like a bowstring. If the RD is OK it should function normally through the range (except for indexing, doh!) and if the inner limit is still right, the hanger is OK.

Once you've ruled out the RD, then you're left with a lever problem which is more logical based on the signs. Possibly a small part bent and jams, or grit got into it, restricting it's movement. With the wheel off so there's no resistance to shifting, take it slow, working it through the gears, trying to observe what might be getting in the way. If you can't spot a specific issue, try the Hail Mary of index levers, flush it with spray WD-40, and continue working it gently through the range.

Good luck.

TheGefish

I will definitely check out what you said tomorrow when there's light. It seems like as I add tension with my hand, the shifter goes inward towards the larger cogs which is contrary to what the fine folks at Park Tools have on their website. Do 105's come in Rapid Rise/ Low Normal? I bought the bike second hand so I'm not sure what the exact specs are.

FBinNY 

I think you might be misinterpreting the terms high normal and rapid rise.

From your description, I would assume your RD is a typical high normal, meaning the RD return spring takes the RD outward toward the smaller high gear sprockets. A rapid rise or low normal derailleur is sprung to move inward when the cable is slackened. (I have no idea whether there was ever a 105 version).

As I said, step one is to isolate the problem to either the RD & hanger or levers (or both). Based on that diagnostic, you'll know where to focus your efforts.

TheGefish

Will do tomorrow at first light. Hopefully it'll be a doable fix and I'll update later. Thanks everyone.

Kimmo

I doubt it very much; it sounds like the sort of feature that'd be tried on commuting gear, not something that might ever be raced on... I think the RD's pinch bolt mounted on a sprung arm was a similar sort of idea; I've seen that on a couple of RX100 derailleurs IIRC, but I'd be amazed to see it on 105 or above.

TheGefish

You guys were definitely correct with the high normal/rapid rise thing.

I took to the garage and tried playing with the cable by hand. I couldn't get enough slack into the cable to get it into the smaller cogs, as the cable had been cut at the previous adjustment. It was weird because for a brief minute, shifting worked from the levers all the way outwards to the second to last smallest cog (couldn't get it to grab the smallest cog), but once I went back up the cogs it got stuck on the second to last/largest cogs and wouldn't come back down.

Also, when I try to hold the gear lever to go to the smaller cogs, the chain will tease me. It'll remain on the second to largest cog, but will slip down into the 3rd largest and then go back up and then come back down.

Also, when the chain was able to drop down to the smallest cogs, there was a bad bit of rattling as the chain rubbed against the inner cage plate of the front derailleur, which wasn't happening before hand.


Am I correct in assuming that there needs to be enough cable to reach the crimping bolt when the bike is in the longest gear ratio it has, at a tension low enough to keep it on the smallest cog but high enough that when I pull the lever, the increase tension will pull it up into the next gear rather than just pulling on slack? Because it definitely looks like there isn't enough cable for that to happen .

FBinNY 

OK, if there's 2" or more of cable beyond the pinch bolt it might make sense and remove it. If there's less than 1" you can remove it, but might have trouble re-attaching it later, so it's up to you whether you want to spring for a new inner wire.

Remove the wire from the pinch bolt, and work the RD in and out by pushing the lower body. It should freely and easily span the entire range. Now adjust the inner limit so you can push it enough to shift to the largest sprocket from it's neighbor, but not go beyond and drop the chain into the spokes. Repeat the process for the outer limit, pushing to the 2nd sprocket and letting go. Adjust the limit so it does that shift smoothly and centers and runs smoothly in high. (BTW- push the RD in slightly to take the weight off when adjusting the limit).

OK with any luck, you have the RD working OK and spanning the range between the correctly set limits. If not, then you do have an RD issue, maybe a bent cage, maybe something else.

Now Turn the adjusting barrel in all the way, and back out one turn. Set the lever to high, and pull out as much cable as you can. Shift the RD to a middle sprocket, stop pedaling and let go, so chain holds the RD somewhere off the high limit. Thread and attach the cable, pull out all the slack, and tighten the pinch bolt fairly firm, but not tight. Pedal and the RD will return to the outside. Ideally it'll hang someplace near the 2nd sprocket, loosen the pinch bolt just enough for the RD to slide on the cable until it's on the high limit, and tighten the pinchbolt. Now shift the lever 2 clicks (corresponding to the 3rd smallest sprocket) and see if the RD responds. Odds are it won't but will probably shift one gear. Keep pedaling and back out the barrel adjuster until it shifts. Use the lever and shift one more position and see if it shifts. You're very close to a correct adjustment, so you'll now use the barrel adjuster for best shifting in both directions in all but the outermost sprockets. Finally recheck and fine tune the inner and outer limit for best shift and smooth running in the inner and outermost sprockets. Test ride, and fine tune if needed.

TheGefish

Whew, thanks for the detailed write up. I'll definitely have to pick up new inner wires as the previous owner cut it to about half an inch extra when it was all set. It sounds like from then on it's just like adjusting a RD which I've never done before, but with that write up, feel pretty confident I'll do fine. Thanks NY I will update tomorrow when my LBS opens up.

Al1943

I think you've got a shifter full of sand. See if you can blow it out with compressed air. You could also try WD40 in the shifter if the compressed air doesn't clean it out.

Kimmo

Fancy.

Quick and dirty method: with the lever and derailleur in high gear (smallest cog) and the pinch bolt loose, just pull the cable through the pinch bolt with some pliers, ensuring all housing ends are properly seated*. Might require another turn or two on the barrel adjuster, compared to the fancy method.

And cut the cable 3-4" from the pinch bolt; that's enough to prevent fraying from the pinch and to bend and tuck it out of harm's way. On road front derailleurs, I loop the cable all the way around the bolt so it's pointing down behind the seat tube - using pliers here helps a lot to get enough tension. I don't use the crimp-on caps, cause I find em a PITA when I want to remove a cable. By tucking them away, my cable ends are protected well enough.

* That problem might have been the cause of your mystery where you couldn't shift back to a smaller cog.