wipekitty

Agreed.

I'm lucky to live in a small community with four nearby bike shops as well as a bike builder/mobile mechanic. My primary motivations to visit the LBS are to look at new bikes, talk to people about bikes, or join a shop ride, and sometimes, I end up buying something.

Still, my major bicycle purchases (including components, clothing, and accessories) generally come from UK retailers, discount retailers/sales, and Ebay. I know how to install components, measure myself, and read size charts and brand reviews.

Online shopping is a trend that my significant other and I got into ~10 years ago, motivated by money being really tight and then later, moving to smaller communities in which the goods we were looking for were not available. For example, it would be a 2 1/2 hour drive to find clothing that either one of us would wear in public...and though teen fashion is available, we've taught our teenagers that money stretches further when one shops online.

It's also the case that the big box retailers are a pain to get to by foot, bike, or bus, which is how we go places, and these same retailers will deliver for free. So, we just order household supplies and dry goods online every month or two. Same thing with pet food and supplies.

Sure, I'd rather support local businesses - and I do, when I can. But more often than not, the local businesses I support are those that offer services or unique things (like artwork), rather than items I can get more easily and for cheaper from other sources.

Troul 

I have sent a few places a request/concerns to fitment of clothing, but they always respond with a I regret to inform you reply.

Sy Reene

Since this is about Jeans... for a birthday or Christmas list, I asked for a new pair of Levi 513s.. My son stopped into a Levi flagship store in Times Square and was told those were discontinued, and only 511s were available. Go ahead and check Amazon.. they certainly don't appear to be discontinued.

Kapusta

Troul 

Amazon has went down as far as customer service goes. They sell another businesses product, but only help within a short window for returns/warranty claims. You're on your own if it's exceeded the window of opportunity by day day or more.

Kapusta

dedhed

If it's planned maintenance, I've even started buying auto parts on line.

Cl904

Garfield Cat

For records and music in Los Angeles its Amoeba Music

https://www.amoeba.com/

Berkeley, San Francisco, Los Angeles

hagak

So a few months ago I needed a 15mm pedal wrench. I was out shopping with the wife and happened to be in a town with 3 bike shops within walking distance. So I decided instead of ordering the wrench like I planned on I would just pop in and pick one up. Every single shop responded with no we don't have that but can order it. WTF would I order through your shop so that I now have to wait to get the part, pay more, and have to drive back out to the shop to get it. I ordered it on Amazon had it the next day. I get B&M can not compete inventory wise with the likes of Amazon, but come on stock a few common bike tools. I will give one shop an A for effort by offering to lend me a wrench, but I did not have my bike with me at the time.

But that is the big issue with B&M, they can not compete inventory wise with online. And now that online can get things to me within 2 days, and sometimes same day; driving to a store seems like an added expense and gamble if they even have what i need.

tyrion

Yeah, I know Amoeba - all 3 stores. It's managed to survive through excellent management. From the beginning they excelled at buying/selling used, and the key to this was having knowledgeable buyers. If you wanted to sell some records or CDs you knew you'd get a fair price at Amoeba, which in turn gave them tremendous variety and made them the place for rare and obscure stuff.

San Francisco still has a few indie bookstores too.

indyfabz

Maybe it's like some people who have several bikes. There is your "A" bike you only ride when the conditions are ideal. It's your pride and joy so you don't want to prematurely wear out its parts by riding it too much. Then there is the one you ride when you just want to do something casual. Your beater bike. You ride that and don't really care what happens to it during the ride. Your gravel/MTB bike for when you want a down and dirty ride. And your fat bike, for a change of pace.

skidder

These guys give Amoeba Music a run-for-the money. They're more of a CD/DVD/even VCR tapes (!!) store, not a lot of vinyl unless its limited release or rare stuff:

https://www.secondspin.com/stores/ss...ainTabMode=buy

TiHabanero

My son's best gal is new to cycling. Never walked into a shop, simply went on line and picked up a bike. Jersey, shorts, shoes, pedals all purchased on line. Bike fits well, too, and the only input on fit came from my son. How many other newbies to the sport are doing the same right now? The millennials and their offspring will transform bike shops into used bike/repair shops as reselling of new goods is going to dry up for them. Price, selection, availability.

TiHabanero

Service has always been a big part of any shop that sells new bikes. The shop I worked in for 30 years relied upon the service dept. to make a profit. The bikes were sold at retail, but markup of 25-35% was not enough to generate a profit after paying for assembly and follow-up free service, plus all of the sales people's hourly wages. The sales floor was almost a break even part of the company, and service was the profit generator.

Ebikes are the next thing for bike shops and should provide more service revenue as the bikes age, however that process of aging takes time so the profitability potential will not show up for many more years.

I am amazed at how comfortable the kids are doing large dollar purchases online, sight unseen. They feel protected with free return shipping, and use it when not satisfied with an item they receive beit they ordered the wrong size, don't like the color, or is defective in some way. Of course, the cursed "use it and return it" person will proliferate as online retail with free return policies get bigger and bigger.

It is my contention that LBS will need to be content will smaller sales volumes and lower profit margins, hire fewer workers and downsize their digs. When one looks around Seattle, it seems this is exactly what is going on. Portland, Oregon the same. Lots and lots of small repair shops scratching out a meager living with an owner and a single employee.

livedarklions

I'm seeing a proliferation of the solo practitioner or very small staff bike mechanic shops with no or few bikes for sale, often located next to a major rail trail. The economics of that are really obvious. The LBS that continue to sell new bikes retail seem to be just the very biggest ones. Performance Bikes hasn't shown up in our area and I'm skeptical it ever will. The real competition is the online retailers and my impression is that the small shops make a fair amount of money assembling bikes bought online as well as reconditioning old bikes people find.

TiHabanero

"my impression is that the small shops make a fair amount of money assembling bikes bought online as well as reconditioning old bikes people find." Labor dollars are the highest margin dollars in any shop environment. We assemble online purchased bikes all the time and charge the same as we do for any other full service. One problem we have run into is some inconsistency between brands, ie, missing parts and incorrectly spec'd parts that require some tinkering to fit and function properly. Does not happen often, but it does happen. The best challenges are the Chinese carbon frames that are found on ebay. Usually they are a nightmare and require a lot of extra effort. We have returned 5 of them to their customers unfinished due to problems with head tubes and bottom brackets. My guess is that they have slacker QC requirements than big name companies that sell through shops or outfits like Nashbar and Performance.

Paul Barnard

I get what you are saying, but I believe there is merit to my remarks as well. There was a time when a bicycle shop could stock a few headsets that would cover 90% of the bikes. Not so today. How many headset configurations exist today? Brakes? Well we have caliper, canti, V, mechanical disc and hydraulic disc. Want disc brake pads? How many different styles exist? Bottom bracket cable guides? Spare forks? How many speeds would they need to stock for today as opposed to 20 years ago.

20 years ago a bike shop would have to stock FAR less to cover 90% of the riders than they would today. A well stocked bike shop would have to stock a dizzying array of parts. They could tie a lot of precious capital up in very slow moving parts.

Troul 

Most lbs are brand locked, & to not stock that brands replacement parts is a poor choice on their behalf. For other lbs that deal with multi varieties of brands, i can understand... Especially if they offer new & pre-owned.

Maelochs

Yes ... i will give you a 78 out of 101 on the Imaginary Unitary Meritory Scale.

Seriously, yes, but seriously, i disagree. That's all. Nothing important. Move along, folks. Nothing to read here.

The only 'new" braking system is discs ,,.... 30 years ago, canti, V, mini-V, sidepull, ceenter pull ..... and discs on MTBs. [QUOTE=Paul Barnard;20549985] Bottom bracket cable guides? [/quote'] Oten bike specific, though often adaptable. I have adapted, so I know. Again very bike -specific. 30 years ago as I recall threadless was just starting .... but still fork length and rake/trail varied from bike to bike. [QUOTE=Paul Barnard;20549985] How many speeds would they need to stock for today as opposed to 20 years ago. {/quote] This I agree with. 20 years ago bikes could either go 5,10, 15, or 20 mph .... nothing in between. Now bike shops have to cater to people who use up all their 16 mph or break their 14 mph .... why woud people need to go those speeds, forcing bike shops to carry or order them?

I started out as a commuter building bikes from scrap so I understand about part interchangability .... where we disagree is in what impact this has had on the bike business.

I don't see people buying a lot of parts at bike shops .... because peeple who Do build bikes can get the parts Cheaper online, even if the shop stocks and regularly orders them. I recall a California-based bike store, SuperGo ... one fo the first, as I recall, to go big online. What a bonanza for someone like me! I could get parts at bike-shop wholesale instead ob bike-shop retail----and as a rule, I had to wait a week to have a day off to visit the bike shop anyway, so waiting a week for a parcel was completely copacetic.

I am not sure any bike shop made a significant profit selling just parts .... the people who know enough to be willing to lay out huge money for exotic parts (how many $150 cane Creek headsets did shops Ever sell?) are few, and often racers too busy to be bothered wrenching, and the "average' customer, when he needed repairs, simply dropped off the bike at the shop also---as I recall.

So yes .... it is impossible for a bike shop to stock the parts any customer would want ... but it always has been, and that has never been a huge part of bike shops' income anyway, as I understand it.
Where the shops cleaned up was buying the parts wholesale, selling the retail as part of a repair or upgrade job, where they also charged labor.

And ask around here .... how many people who do their own wrenching or build their own bikes would even Consider paying full retail for parts, even if the shop had them in stock, when you could save 30-50% buying them online and getting them at your home in 2-3 days?

Just an alternative point of view, not intended to invalidate the merits of your post.

Still ... Imaginary Unitary Meritory Scale rating = 93%.

KraneXL

Particularly since service is the segment with the most variance in price. You can make up virtually any amount to substantiate your labor costs.So now you've identified yet another limitation of the online market.

mstateglfr 

So this is tough for me to point out, since I am all for the idea of a stronger middle class and support(both in ideal and practice) the idea of upward mobility.
Please understand that for the most part, jobs pay based on the scarcity of replacement talent. This is why lawyers and doctors are paid more than grocery store clerks- they are not as easily replaceable due to skillset.
Its why (typically) people with an advanced degree are paid more.
Its why entry level jobs pay less.

If the replacement pool for a job is plentiful, the job will typically pay less. Walmart and Amazon warehouse employees, in general, dont have skills which are difficult to replace.
In theory, CEOs who are wildly successful are compensated handsomely because their skillset is not widely available. Now whether that theory is accurate or not is absolutely debatable. What isnt debatable is that Bezos has been widly sucessful. In less than 25 years he has built a company from nothing into the largest internet retailer in the world, employing over half a million people, and valued at over 1 trillion dollars.
All that success has come with some controversy for sure. And Bezos may be a POS, but he has proven to have a skillset that most others dont and has been able to finacially capitalize on that.


I actually just discussed this with my 6th grade daughter last weekend as we talked about why my wife(lawyer) makes more than me, even though i have a college degree. Her skillset is more valuable than mine and is paid accordingly.

mstateglfr 

- Back in the day there were a whole slew of bottom brackets. Country's threading mattered, shell width mattered, and spindle width mattered. That produced a bunch of different BBs.
- BCD back then was all over the place. the 70s and 80s had so many BCDs that its tough to remember them all. I have mint chainrings sitting in a drawer waiting for cranks that have the wonky BCDs to fit the rings.
- seatpost diameters were all over the place. I have 30-40yo seatposts that I doubt will ever see a frame because they are so obscure.

Yes- there is a lot of variation in cycling, but thats how it has been for decades. Its hardly new.


As for going to 5 shops and none having what you want, I feel your pain. I now call the shops around me before going in for the random component that I want right away since I always seem to want really random things right away.

no motor?

That sounds like Lew at Foxwear. The jacket I bought from him is still one of my favorite pieces of bicycle clothing.

dennis336

Actually, it was Wayne from TheTouringStore. Hadn't heard of Foxwear but I'll check them out.