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Tubeless or not?

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Tubeless or not?

Old 05-04-20, 08:37 PM
  #151  
DrIsotope
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Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
Guess it's just the extra hassle that comes with it. Anyways, I ended up buying a new TL Giant tire at my LBS & some sealant. I spent 1 hour trying to inflate the freaking tire using one of my air compressor (150PSI) and it didn't work. Even at high pressure, air was getting out instead of pushing the beads to where they should be. I was about to put WD-40 in there & light it up, but came back to my senses and gave up. There is something I am not doing right. Oh well, first times are the worst. I will resume tomorrow. If you have any tips for me, feel free to make me happy!

I am now thinking of ordering a new bike pump that comes with a built-in compressor. They are not cheap, but could clearly save me some headaches on the long run.
I'm go to go based on the assumption that you have a compressor-- something with a tank, not the little motor driven jobbies you use with an extension cord to fill a leaky car tire. If that's what you're using, that's the problem. You don't need pressure, you need volume. You can use an air tank, or make a homebrew "airshot" cylinder out of a 1L bottle, a presta valve, and some tubing-- but a proper, tanked compressor makes seating tires a breeze... usually. The Maxxis Padrone made me want to give up on cycling altogether. Never with Gavias, though. They never give me any issue. So if you get to the shopping stage, don't bother with one of those pumps, IMO. Buy a compressor. A pancake or hotdog from Kobalt, Porter Cable, DeWalt, etc. will be around $100, and usually come with accessories or even a tool or two. Harbor Freight will have you out the door for maybe 60 bucks.
  • "Unfurl" the tire ahead of time, shape it into that "tire shape," and leave it sitting awhile on a bench or the floor.
  • After putting the tire on to the rim, make sure the beads are outside of the stem. Soap both beads, all the way around. I use bubble juice, leaves minimal residue, easy to clean up. Plain water with a drop or two of dish soap also works.
  • Position the wheel so the stem is at the 6 o'clock position, core removed. I use a blowgun, straight into the stem. Push down on the tire from the top, blast it with air.
  • Tire should snap into place fast.
Obviously, some rims are more cooperative than others. I've done rims 15, 17, 19, 21, and 23 millimeters wide, none were really any more or less cooperative, with a small exception-- no rim takes a tire as quickly or securely as Crank Brothers. The lack of spoke holes (no tape,) combined with wider rims (+21mm) and apparently perfect bead hooks make them the easiest to work with wheels I've ever had.
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Old 05-05-20, 06:43 AM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
I'm go to go based on the assumption that you have a compressor-- something with a tank, not the little motor driven jobbies you use with an extension cord to fill a leaky car tire. If that's what you're using, that's the problem. You don't need pressure, you need volume. You can use an air tank, or make a homebrew "airshot" cylinder out of a 1L bottle, a presta valve, and some tubing-- but a proper, tanked compressor makes seating tires a breeze... usually. The Maxxis Padrone made me want to give up on cycling altogether. Never with Gavias, though. They never give me any issue. So if you get to the shopping stage, don't bother with one of those pumps, IMO. Buy a compressor. A pancake or hotdog from Kobalt, Porter Cable, DeWalt, etc. will be around $100, and usually come with accessories or even a tool or two. Harbor Freight will have you out the door for maybe 60 bucks.
  • "Unfurl" the tire ahead of time, shape it into that "tire shape," and leave it sitting awhile on a bench or the floor.
  • After putting the tire on to the rim, make sure the beads are outside of the stem. Soap both beads, all the way around. I use bubble juice, leaves minimal residue, easy to clean up. Plain water with a drop or two of dish soap also works.
  • Position the wheel so the stem is at the 6 o'clock position, core removed. I use a blowgun, straight into the stem. Push down on the tire from the top, blast it with air.
  • Tire should snap into place fast.
Obviously, some rims are more cooperative than others. I've done rims 15, 17, 19, 21, and 23 millimeters wide, none were really any more or less cooperative, with a small exception-- no rim takes a tire as quickly or securely as Crank Brothers. The lack of spoke holes (no tape,) combined with wider rims (+21mm) and apparently perfect bead hooks make them the easiest to work with wheels I've ever had.
I use my 6gal Bostitch framing/roofing air compressor (2.6SCFM @ 90PSI). It should be enough. The tire I bought was already out of its box & has a nice round shape. Thank you for the advices - will try this today.

As for the pump, replacing my current old one was already planned. I believe spending 50$ more for one that has a tank could be a plus value.

Last edited by eduskator; 05-05-20 at 07:18 AM.
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Old 05-05-20, 08:17 AM
  #153  
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Getting some tubeless onto to the rim can indeed be a real PITA. For really bad ones i use a little bit of yamaha tire bead lube from the motorcycle parts store + a bead jack.

as mentioned above, any compressor with a jet nozzle will seat a tire. Never need to use soap suds etc.
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Old 05-05-20, 08:20 AM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by matt92037 View Post
Getting some tubeless onto to the rim can indeed be a real PITA. For really bad ones i use a little bit of yamaha tire bead lube from the motorcycle parts store + a bead jack.

as mentioned above, any compressor with a jet nozzle will seat a tire. Never need to use soap suds etc.
I never had problems mounting my tubeless tires, only seating them. I don't own a compressor and have no plans to buy one just to seat bike tires. Any other tricks people use to seat tubeless tires WITHOUT a compressor?
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Old 05-05-20, 08:23 AM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by matt92037 View Post
Getting some tubeless onto to the rim can indeed be a real PITA. For really bad ones i use a little bit of yamaha tire bead lube from the motorcycle parts store + a bead jack.

as mentioned above, any compressor with a jet nozzle will seat a tire. Never need to use soap suds etc.
Yes. Add the sealant that leaks everywhere on the floor to the recipe and you get a real mess. I only wished it was as easy as replacing a tube. Tubeless is great, but it comes with a price. My bad experience is clearly biasing me.

I dropped my wheel at the LBS so they can mount it. I was 0.0001 seconds away from throwing it on the wall. I just don't have the patience needed for that.
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Old 05-05-20, 08:37 AM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
Add the sealant that leaks everywhere on the floor to the recipe and you get a real mess.
What's the scenario when this happens when mounting? You shouldn't be adding sealant to the mix until after the tire beads are seated.
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Old 05-05-20, 08:40 AM
  #157  
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I was told to add the sealant after the tire is installed on the rim, roll the wheel so it gets everywhere inside and then inflate it. Guess there are different -less messier- ways to do it.
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Old 05-05-20, 08:41 AM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
Yes. Add the sealant that leaks everywhere on the floor to the recipe and you get a real mess.

I was 0.0001 seconds away from throwing it on the wall. I just don't have the patience needed for that.
Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
What's the scenario when this happens when mounting? You shouldn't be adding sealant to the mix until after the tire beads are seated.
+1

Improper procedure is leading to frustration.
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Old 05-05-20, 08:42 AM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
I was told to add the sealant after the tire is installed & roll the wheel so it gets everywhere inside, and then inflate it. Guess there are different ways to do it.
Yep, there's a right way, and a wrong way.

Doing things the wrong way usually makes things harder.
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Old 05-05-20, 09:29 AM
  #160  
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So my LBS called a few minutes ago & said they were having a rough time as well. They unmounted the tire, cleaned it & installed it again without sealant and it's still not working. Unless they are complete ignorants, I am starting to believe that the tire might be at fault here.
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Old 05-05-20, 10:06 AM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
So my LBS called a few minutes ago & said they were having a rough time as well. They unmounted the tire, cleaned it & installed it again without sealant and it's still not working. Unless they are complete ignorants, I am starting to believe that the tire might be at fault here.
LBS employees aren't beyond reproach, especially if this is the place that told you to add sealant before seating the beads (something that's somewhat common in the MTB world but not so much in the road world).

I assume that this is where you got the new tire? And they called you to say, "hey - no progress"? Did they try seating another one that they had in stock if they suspected the tire was somehow... too big? Too small?
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Old 05-05-20, 10:15 AM
  #162  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
LBS employees aren't beyond reproach, especially if this is the place that told you to add sealant before seating the beads (something that's somewhat common in the MTB world but not so much in the road world).

I assume that this is where you got the new tire? And they called you to say, "hey - no progress"? Did they try seating another one that they had in stock if they suspected the tire was somehow... too big? Too small?

Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
The LBS I went to on Saturday evening told me it was not reparable. I do not trust this LBS, and I am going to another one to see if it is.
Is that the only shop in your area?
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Old 05-05-20, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Is that the only shop in your area?
Short answer is yes. I've had a few bad experiences with other LBS around. This one is usually good.
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Old 05-05-20, 10:35 AM
  #164  
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Originally Posted by tonymarch View Post
I never had problems mounting my tubeless tires, only seating them. I don't own a compressor and have no plans to buy one just to seat bike tires. Any other tricks people use to seat tubeless tires WITHOUT a compressor?
There are a lot of high volume options around
I've had something like this for a few years
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Old 05-05-20, 10:49 AM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by tonymarch View Post
I never had problems mounting my tubeless tires, only seating them. I don't own a compressor and have no plans to buy one just to seat bike tires. Any other tricks people use to seat tubeless tires WITHOUT a compressor?
If it's a particularly stubborn tire, remove the valve core of the presta valve and burn a CO2. I get my CO2 cartridges from Amazon for about a dollar a piece.
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Old 05-05-20, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
If it's a particularly stubborn tire, remove the valve core of the presta valve and burn a CO2. I get my CO2 cartridges from Amazon for about a dollar a piece.
Yeah, I had the same thoughts, but that didn't work either.
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Old 05-05-20, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
There are a lot of high volume options around
I've had something like this for a few years
What is it? I can't make out the name on the side of the canister. Thanks.
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Old 05-05-20, 10:59 AM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by tonymarch View Post
What is it? I can't make out the name on the side of the canister. Thanks.
It's an air tank. You pressurise air inside it using your regular bike pump, and then it can be used to mount TL tires on your rims.

There are also pumps with built-in air chamber that can do the same thing. This is what I'm buying since I need a new pump anyways.


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Old 05-05-20, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by tonymarch View Post
What is it? I can't make out the name on the side of the canister. Thanks.
Here you go Tony

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/b...-tire-pump?s=a
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Old 05-05-20, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by tonymarch View Post
Yeah, I had the same thoughts, but that didn't work either.
Yikes! I can only remember one tire that was past the point of a CO2. It took removing the core, attaching a compressor to the stem running full-bore, and three dudes manipulating the tire at different leak points before it finally hissed into place. That was the better part of 10 years ago, and I've since not seen a tire be anywhere near that bad.
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Old 05-05-20, 11:02 AM
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There's also this, which negates the need for a separate air chamber (slow to the punch)

https://www.westernbikeworks.com/pro...CABEgJB4_D_BwE
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Old 05-05-20, 11:03 AM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
Yikes! I can only remember one tire that was past the point of a CO2. It took removing the core, attaching a compressor to the stem running full-bore, and three dudes manipulating the tire at different leak points before it finally hissed into place. That was the better part of 10 years ago, and I've since not seen a tire be anywhere near that bad.
My LBS was finally able to inflate it. It took 3 guys holding different areas of the tires

Kudos to them for squeezing me in-between 2 jobs in this very busy time of year (especially with everything that's going on right now!).
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Old 05-05-20, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
There's also this, which negates the need for a separate air chamber (slow to the punch)

https://www.westernbikeworks.com/pro...CABEgJB4_D_BwE
I'd rather get one of these.

https://www.harborfreight.com/5-gall...ank-65594.html
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Old 05-05-20, 11:14 AM
  #174  
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Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
There's also this, which negates the need for a separate air chamber (slow to the punch)

https://www.westernbikeworks.com/pro...CABEgJB4_D_BwE
Bontrager has a similar unit that gets very, very good reviews - it's the one that I'd get if either my pump or my air charge canister were to go **** up.
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Old 05-05-20, 11:44 AM
  #175  
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Airshot also works very well

Air Shot Ltd.
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