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Totally Tubular

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Totally Tubular

Old 04-29-20, 10:07 AM
  #1476  
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Wow a lot of that applies today...the mounting method is almost identical to what is listed on yellow jersey
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Old 04-29-20, 11:07 PM
  #1477  
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Yes, I concur.

Tubular only, totally.

I have not seen Lennard Zinn's comments from VeloNews.com posted here.

Hopefully not a copyright violation.
Go VeloNews, Go VeloNews! (I feel guiltless now)

First the 'Finally,' (meaning = final paragraph) - for short attention spanners:

Lennard
"Finally, tubular rims, by eliminating the bead walls, are not only lighter than clincher rims of similar stiffness and strength, but their edges are also much less likely to get dinged or cracked when impacting bumps with the same tire diameter and pressure."

On taping Lennard says
"Taping tubulars onto rims is quick; I’m sure I can do it as quickly as I can mount a clincher and inner tube or tubeless clincher. I’m so confident in Carogna tape, even with these giant 40mm tubulars at low pressure, that I’ll probably never again use the many full cans and tubes of tubular glue I have."

The heart of the matter: Lennard says
"There can be little question that the non-vulcanized casing with a super-high thread count of a top-quality tubular will be more supple than any vulcanized casing with inherently lower thread counts (thicker casing threads) that tubeless tires have, and the thin latex inner tube inside of the tubular is unlikely to reduce its suppleness to that of the tubeless tire casing. Casing suppleness means low rolling resistance; the thinner individual threads in the tubular that are not bonded as tightly to adjacent threads are able to deflect rapidly to road surface anomalies and hence not cause the entire wheel, bike and rider to be lifted as much over them, costing more energy. I remain convinced that if the best handmade tubular had the low rolling resistance tread strip of some of the fastest-rolling clinchers and tubeless tires, that it would roll faster than any other tire, save perhaps for a “handmade”, “open-tubular” clincher made of the same materials and construction methods as the tubular, with the same thin latex tube inside and without the glue bond to the rim that perhaps could be costing the tubular some energy.

On Blow-Out protection - Lennard says
"Even in the event of a high-speed blowout and immediate loss of all pressure, a well-glued tubular tire won’t come off of the rim, while some clinchers will. Tubeless tires on a tubeless rim with a bead-lock ridge should stay mounted better than most clinchers upon rapid deflation — though still not as well as a well-bonded tubular."

And the part of the puzzle I swear I can sometimes feel on a smooth, curvy road.
Lennard says
"Furthermore, nothing will change the fact that the cross-section of an inflated tubular is round, while that of a clincher is bulb-shaped, so tipping it from edge to edge while cornering will be smoother and more predictable with the tubular. "

Go Lennard
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Old 05-01-20, 07:30 AM
  #1478  
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Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
Yes, I concur.

Tubular only, totally.

I have not seen Lennard Zinn's comments from VeloNews.com posted here.

Hopefully not a copyright violation.
Go VeloNews, Go VeloNews! (I feel guiltless now)....

...Go Lennard

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Old 05-01-20, 01:32 PM
  #1479  
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Originally Posted by hazetguy View Post
Here's some stuff that can hopefully act as "mind bleach" against all that clincher nonsense.
Thanks, I totally needed that.

I had evaluated the tubular fit on a <ahem> "non-tubular" rim was good enough that I would risk riding it if I needed to - and I imagined giving a spare tubular to a stranded non-tubular rider with a ruined non-tubular tire. Neither situation has ever presented itself. The idea of having a spare tubular to give to a stranded tubular rider gives me a warm feeling even though it's never happened either.

First tubulars I ever bought were about 1985 - Vittoria CGs about $40. I bought a Mondiale for $10 to use for a spare. Rims were GP4s, I don't remember what kind of glue I had.
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Old 05-01-20, 07:16 PM
  #1480  
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Tubulars are so very C&V. I didn't realize that taping was so Vintage. I'll stop looking down on tapers.
Also, It is really hard no to Like hazetguy's posts.
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Old 05-01-20, 07:25 PM
  #1481  
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Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
Tubulars are so very C&V. I didn't realize that taping was so Vintage. I'll stop looking down on tapers.
Also, It is really hard no to Like hazetguy's posts.

Tubulars = so C&V AND so Pro Peloton simultaneously.
Ride quality vintage framesets with tubulars like a pro.


oh yeah, sometimes hard to resist the things hazetguy puts up For Sale.
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Old 05-01-20, 08:19 PM
  #1482  
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Originally Posted by hazetguy View Post
Bob, you have to inject the tubes with bleach and lysol. That's the new sealant, or so i've been told. then you can use either style tire on any style rim (once the tire and tube have seen the inner light).
With today's removable valves and LED lights, exposing good tubulars to the inner light is a lot easier than it used to be. And the tubulars on clincher rims is old, like old as the hills. I lent a tubular to my friend to get him rolling on an epic ride (multiple flats, a crash, him bonking and me pushing him up the steepest sections of a long,hard climb. (His 6'7" 200 lbs and my 150. OMG hard.) 40 years ago. Not a new concept then.

Doing this isn't a debasing of the noble tubular. Think of it as charity, the tubular doing a good deed for the wretched and the poor. Saints get their cleansing from above, We don't have to do anything (except return that tubular to its proper place).

Edit: Diabloscott! I was thinking about you as I wrote the above! Morgan Hill Rd, clockwise. Off season so a short day. We were running out of light and my friend's car was at the Athena school.

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Old 05-02-20, 02:54 PM
  #1483  
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
I had evaluated the tubular fit on a <ahem> "non-tubular" rim was good enough that I would risk riding it if I needed to - and I imagined giving a spare tubular to a stranded non-tubular rider with a ruined non-tubular tire. Neither situation has ever presented itself.
On the one time I lent a tubular to a non-tubular rider, and probably whenever I do it again, the reason I was carrying a spare tubular at all was so I'd have a spare for my own flat!
My experience has been that Stan's Tire Seal is quite effective with latex tubes in tubulars. It means you (which is to say, I) don't often have to use that spare tire you (which is to say, I) are carrying. But I'm sure most of you knew that already.

I have not been riding tubulars, just clinchers on a bike mounted on a trainer. My sweetie won't let me ride. :-(
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Old 05-03-20, 02:22 PM
  #1484  
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Have any of you tubbie fans seen that Challenge is now offering the Strada Bianca in 36mm widths?!
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Old 05-03-20, 04:44 PM
  #1485  
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I noticed that when someone pointed out that Leonard Zinn said he's testing some 40mm tubulars.

How wide does a tubular need to get before you need to increase rim width?
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Old 05-03-20, 08:46 PM
  #1486  
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I had some Velocity Major Toms during my brief CX career. They were too wide for 25mm road tires and way too wide for 23s so when I quit racing CX, I had no need for them. Now.....
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Old 05-03-20, 11:38 PM
  #1487  
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
Have any of you tubbie fans seen that Challenge is now offering the Strada Bianca in 36mm widths?!
No, hadn't seen that before. Those look like they'd be worth a try (if only I had a bike that could handle 'em). That said, I've had mixed results with my Challenge tires. I think I've had maybe 10 Challenge Paris-Roubaix tires over the past few years. When they're good, they're good. They give a nice, comfortable road feel with good traction, and are better than most in terms of resisting flats in my experience. They don't wear out too quickly either. However, I've had a couple that failed prematurely at the valve and a couple others where the rubber has curled up from the casing. I've seen others report this same issue with the rubber coming off from the casing. I've been able to glue it back in place with barge cement, but it's rather disconcerting--especially when you discover the issue on a front tire during a long ride (sounds like you've got a piece of tape stuck to your tires when a section of a couple inches or more becomes detached). YMMV.
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Old 05-04-20, 07:59 AM
  #1488  
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Originally Posted by gaucho777 View Post
No, hadn't seen that before. Those look like they'd be worth a try (if only I had a bike that could handle 'em). That said, I've had mixed results with my Challenge tires. I think I've had maybe 10 Challenge Paris-Roubaix tires over the past few years. When they're good, they're good. They give a nice, comfortable road feel with good traction, and are better than most in terms of resisting flats in my experience. They don't wear out too quickly either. However, I've had a couple that failed prematurely at the valve and a couple others where the rubber has curled up from the casing. I've seen others report this same issue with the rubber coming off from the casing. I've been able to glue it back in place with barge cement, but it's rather disconcerting--especially when you discover the issue on a front tire during a long ride (sounds like you've got a piece of tape stuck to your tires when a section of a couple inches or more becomes detached). YMMV.
My experience with Challenge tires is identical: Failure at the valve stem and tread rubber delaminating from casing.
Recently I bought a set of so called "tubeless" Challenge "Gravel Grinders". One of them weeped sealant out of the sidewall incessantly. I counted over 40 little nubs of hardened sealant on the sidewall and it was still leaking. The other tire in the pair weeped for a day and was fine after that.
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Old 05-04-20, 06:24 PM
  #1489  
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Do you guys carry sealant? In a syringe, in the little bottle, or how? Trying to get tips - thanks!
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Old 05-04-20, 07:54 PM
  #1490  
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I carry a small sealant bottle plus one of those circular spoke wrenches with lots of sizes. The large, 12-gauge fitting can be used to unscrew the valve core. The end of the bottle fits inside the valve once you remove the core. Then I pour in about 1/4 to 1/3 of the bottle if I flat. Screw on the core, pump, and ride. Not having to worry about riding on an unglued tubular (most of the time), or having to re-glue after every flat, makes regular tubular usage so much more practical than bitd. Another reason not to use cheap tubulars which often don’t have removable valve cores.

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Old 05-04-20, 08:36 PM
  #1491  
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Something to keep in mind about tape and I am not sure it has been mentioned before. On a bike with very tight rear geometry a 25mm tyre will be about 3/16ths of an inch taller with tape than with glue. I have a T.J. Quick road bike with a very tight rear end with tape I had 1/16" clearence to the seat tube. With glue there is a full 1/4" clearance.
Pic with tape. Will post one with glue when I get a chance. But I think you get the gist.
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Old 05-05-20, 03:50 AM
  #1492  
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Originally Posted by gaucho777 View Post
I carry a small sealant bottle plus one of those circular spoke wrenches with lots of sizes. The large, 12-gauge fitting can be used to unscrew the valve core. The end of the bottle fits inside the valve once you remove the core. Then I pour in about 1/4 to 1/3 of the bottle if I flat. Screw on the core, pump, and ride. Not having to worry about riding on an unglued tubular (most of the time), or having to re-glue after every flat, makes regular tubular usage so much more practical than bitd. Another reason not to use cheap tubulars which often donít have removable valve cores.
Thanks!
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Old 05-05-20, 03:51 AM
  #1493  
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Originally Posted by Wileyone View Post
Something to keep in mind about tape and I am not sure it has been mentioned before. On a bike with very tight rear geometry a 25mm tyre will be about 3/16ths of an inch taller with tape than with glue. I have a T.J. Quick road bike with a very tight rear end with tape I had 1/16" clearence to the seat tube. With glue there is a full 1/4" clearance.
Pic with tape. Will post one with glue when I get a chance. But I think you get the gist.
3/16Ē is kind of a lot! In some bikes. Good to know this.
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Old 05-05-20, 06:25 AM
  #1494  
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Originally Posted by gaucho777 View Post
The large, 12-gauge fitting can be used to unscrew the valve core.... Another reason not to use cheap tubulars which often donít have removable valve cores.
This is an excellent point. I have routinely used Vittoria Rally tubulars (cheap, round), but it turns out that if you get them for an excellent price (I'm a bit of a bottom feeder), you might well be getting an old version with nonremovable valve cores. Newer ones have apparently remedied that deficiency.
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Old 05-05-20, 09:20 AM
  #1495  
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the above few posts bring up the question....put sealant in as a flat preventative or only once you get a flat?
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Old 05-05-20, 09:55 AM
  #1496  
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
the above few posts bring up the question....put sealant in as a flat preventative or only once you get a flat?
I've heard several long time tubular users say they run their tires dry until the first flat (which may be quite a long time). I haven't run tubulars with sealant but that wold be my approach. (Granted, I haven't ridden them in 20 years, but I put on a lot of miles in my 25 years of them.)

The tires are expensive. If something goes wrong with the sealant (or the valve) before that first flat happens, what do you do? Change the tube? ("Ma, it only took me 5 hours and the tire isn't too wobbly. Did stab it once with the needle and had to patch it.")

I plan to return to tubulars as my current rims wear out. I will certainly run them dry until that first flat. If the repair is straight forward, I might go until the second. (I intend to return to the glue system I used all along for everything but race wheels - Tubasti on rims that never get cleaned. Makes for both manageable and reliable road changes. I never carried glue. Just rode carefully as long as I could remember. By the time I got home, they were stuck.

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Old 05-05-20, 10:33 AM
  #1497  
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I do as 79pmooney indicates, dry (always carry a spare), then use sealant after the first flat. I also mark the sealant-containing tires (fuschia sharpie on the valve stem).
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Old 05-05-20, 01:05 PM
  #1498  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
I never carried glue. Just rode carefully as long as I could remember. By the time I got home, they were stuck.
Ben
I've never seen or heard of anyone gluing on a spare on the road. That's the kind of thing a newb would ask about that would make tubular guys laugh.

Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
the above few posts bring up the question....put sealant in as a flat preventative or only once you get a flat?
I started putting Stans in my new tires - I don't really know if it works or not, I don't get many flats, I had a flat a few months ago that the sealant didn't seal. It's cheap enough to keep doing it even if it only works sometimes.
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Old 05-05-20, 02:12 PM
  #1499  
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I too started putting Stans in my new tires. Until this covidean-19'ish thingy hit I was commuting maybe half my days on tubulars. That's a round trip of 35 miles, lots of opportunities for flats. Stans is effective enough that most times I rarely had to swap out the tire, and quite often I didn't even have to put more air in it if I didn't have all that far to go. Unless you get the valve all gummed up you can't tell when you are riding whether you did or didn't put Stans in it. So there seems to be no downside to putting it in first.
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Old 05-05-20, 06:21 PM
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For near home routes (8 miles away as the crow flies) I ride dry, use the spare, and take it easy turning, braking, or accelerating on the way home. For an event, I Pre-Seal with a 1/2 bottle of Stans. This reminds me that a few weeks ago, I had two flats within 3 days. Never got the third flat.....?

FWIW: Latest edition Vittoria Rallys with removable core are very tough skinned. So tough that I didn't trust the thimble and used pliers to get things stitched up tight. Also, regarding peeling back the base tape, to get at the stitches, to get at the leak, I recently used a heat gun to loosen the bond and there was less deformation of base tape when it was glued back on.
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I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
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