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Cantilever Brakes... 🤬

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Cantilever Brakes... 🤬

Old 05-01-20, 09:15 PM
  #51  
grizzly59
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Dwillems26- The main cable attachment to your front straddle wire yoke is backward, put the bolt in from the other side. Cheers
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Old 05-01-20, 09:18 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Oneder
Anyone who says they take the same time is just lying, cantilever brakes take much more care. And why you would want to spend more time for a brake that's objectively less performing is a true mystery. So now I guess I am calling you a liar happy feet, and so is sheldon brown lol

This reminds me of a quote from John Wooden: " It is what you learn after you know it all that counts". It sounds like you are about at the point of learning about what counts.

The quote from Sheldon Brown essentially said to use the correct brake levers for your brakes.

Last edited by Doug64; 05-01-20 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 05-01-20, 09:39 PM
  #53  
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This is the setup for using V-brakes with STI shifters on a touring road bike with drop bars. It takes longer to set up, but works well.


I belive that I can set my Paul cantelever brakes up as fast as most people can set up their V-brakes.
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Old 05-01-20, 10:07 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Oneder
Anyone who says they take the same time is just lying, cantilever brakes take much more care. And why you would want to spend more time for a brake that's objectively less performing is a true mystery. So now I guess I am calling you a liar happy feet, and so is sheldon brown lol
Blatant trolling is against the TOS
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Old 05-01-20, 10:18 PM
  #55  
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Those Paul wide profile cantis are awesome. Now look at Shimano cantis with smooth-post brake pads. Different kettle o fish. Threaded w orbital washer brake pads are a definite improvement over smooth post brake pads.
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Old 05-01-20, 10:43 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by grizzly59
Those Paul wide profile cantis are awesome. Now look at Shimano cantis with smooth-post brake pads. Different kettle o fish. Threaded w orbital washer brake pads are a definite improvement over smooth post brake pads.
There’s nothing really wrong with smooth-post pads. They were used on a number of very good brakes back in the day. Paul even used them on the Stoplight brake. Onza used them and Onzas were as good as Pauls in terms of stopping. In setup, the Onzas were easier because of they used a separate carrier for the brake pads.

The real advantage of Paul brakes...and others that are built like them...is the way that the return springs are adjusted. The Shimano brakes that Dwillems26 is struggling with don’t have much adjustment available to balance the springs. The only adjustment is usually a set screw on one side that pushes on the end of the spring. It can be used to balance the brakes but only crudely. The Pauls use a nut on the front of the brake which is easy to get to and both sides can be adjusted. To set the pads to the rim, simply release the spring, aline the brake pad and tighten up the spring nut. It’s dead simple. The same can’t be done with brakes like the Shimanos.
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Old 05-01-20, 11:17 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Doug64
V- brakes have a weakness when used on flat bar bikes. With a flat bar bike the front wheel can be rotated until stopped by the front brake cable. If the force is great enough, It will bend the brake's noodle hanger which can cause problems. The hanger can be bent back only a limited numer of times before the metal cracks. This ruins the brake, and is a safety item. I replaced a lot of brakes for this reason.
I think you are both making somewhat spurious “safety” arguments. Yes, the cable bridge on a linear brake can be damaged but I’ve never seen one damaged because the handlebar is turned too far. I’m not even sure how that could happen. The bridge is located where it would be difficult to have it contact any part of the frame. You might be able to turn the wheel far enough to wrap the cable around the headset but that’s user error and not something that is going to happen all that often. A lot of the damage I’ve seen done to the cable bridge comes from people not understanding how to remove the cable properly. People tend to pull the end of the noodle out of the cable bridge and end up damaging it. But that’s user error but not something wrong with the design.


Originally Posted by Miele Man
A safety issue with V-brakes? Uh huh, okay. How about the safety issue with cantilever brakes with a straddle cable and yoke wherein if the front brake cable breaks the straddle cable goes down onto the front tire and locks up the wheel causing a wipeoout? This has happened a number of times which is why either an L-shaped piece or a front reflector bracket is used under the straddle cable or why Shimano and others now use a different system for cantilever brake cables that eliminiates that straddle cable.

People who have NOT done much setting up or adjusting of cantilever brakes often find it hard to adjust them properly. A lot of those people don't even know what a properly adjusted cantilever setup looks/feels like. For those inexperienced people, V-brakes are often much simpler to setup or adjust.

Cheers
How many examples of the straddle cable coming loose and dropping down onto the wheel can you cite? How many of those are due to installation errors? I’ve been using straddle cables for 40 years in some pretty demanding conditions and I’ve never even had a cable slip if it is properly anchored. That even includes triangle straddle cable hangers that used very tiny set screws to hold the cable in place. It might happen but as with the cable bridge example above, it’s a user error, not a design flaw.

I agree with your comment about people who haven’t worked on cantilevers don’t understand them but that is true of much of bicycle mechanical work.
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Old 05-02-20, 12:34 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by grizzly59
Those Paul wide profile cantis are awesome. Now look at Shimano cantis with smooth-post brake pads. Different kettle o fish. Threaded w orbital washer brake pads are a definite improvement over smooth post brake pads.
Yep, I reckon posts went out because bike manufacturers had to have a special guy on the production line setting them up and from a manufacturing point of view V Brakes take less installation time so I suspect that's why they also became popular.
The cheap hack for post types is to slip a piece of plastic hose over the post and effectively turn it into a threaded one.
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Old 05-02-20, 04:44 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Doug64
This reminds me of a quote from John Wooden: " It is what you learn after you know it all that counts". It sounds like you are about at the point of learning about what counts.

The quote from Sheldon Brown essentially said to use the correct brake levers for your brakes.
No you obviously didn't actually read the thread before commenting, which is exactly what a know it all would do. The sheldon brown quote contradicted what he said earlier. Someone had said v brakes require new cables and levers to work properly and he went off on them for no apparent reason and accused the guy of being a crook and/or incompetent, then said I accused him of being a liar when I pointed out they would not work properly with the old levers. And the sheldon brown quote specifically said to never do what he suggests as it is dangerous.

The last thing I want to do is portray myself as a master bike mechanic but anyone who romanticises 25 yo shimano cantilever brakes is having a serious case of nostalgia. I had shimano cantis from 1993 on my yahoo when I got it and could not be happier once I tossed those things and it's laughable to to point the finger at me when they were so obviously garbage.

Last edited by Oneder; 05-02-20 at 04:58 AM.
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Old 05-02-20, 10:34 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
I think you are both making somewhat spurious “safety” arguments. Yes, the cable bridge on a linear brake can be damaged but I’ve never seen one damaged because the handlebar is turned too far. I’m not even sure how that could happen. The bridge is located where it would be difficult to have it contact any part of the frame. You might be able to turn the wheel far enough to wrap the cable around the headset but that’s user error and not something that is going to happen all that often. A lot of the damage I’ve seen done to the cable bridge comes from people not understanding how to remove the cable properly. People tend to pull the end of the noodle out of the cable bridge and end up damaging it. But that’s user error but not something wrong with the design

I agree with your comment about people who haven’t worked on cantilevers don’t understand them but that is true of much of bicycle mechanical work.

I had to replace 9 7 sets of brakes (2 were changed due to broken springs) this year because the cable bridges were damaged and bending them back into shape cacked the metal. This resulted in an iffy anchor point for the brake end of the noodle.

You may not have had the pleasure of working on bikes ridden by 5th graders for 15 years I'm not sure exactly how the kids do it, but I think it is casued by wraping the cable arond the head tube. I've found bikes after classes with bars turned more than 180 degrees leaning against the bike trailer. Go figure. The kids are hard on bikes. The bikes also take a lot of abuse transporting them between schools, and loading them in and out of the trailer every day we have class, sometimes twice a day. That could be 50-60 times in one schoolyear. I wish we had a better system of transporting them, but we are lucky to have what got. There is not a good way to get 37 bikes, 130 helmets, tools etc into a 20' cargo trailer. Check the picture in post #49 , and that is not fully loaded.

Last edited by Doug64; 05-02-20 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 05-02-20, 03:15 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by grizzly59
Dwillems26- The main cable attachment to your front straddle wire yoke is backward, put the bolt in from the other side. Cheers
Thanks. I have new straddle cables and that yoke pull thing coming in the mail. I'll change them around when those come in and get the brakes dialed in better.
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Old 05-02-20, 03:57 PM
  #62  
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Uh oh...

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Old 05-05-20, 05:09 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by jgwilliams
Never had them myself but are the bosses not in the same position as for vee brakes?
Yes. V-brakes were invented to replace cantilevers, so that Walmart stockboys could assemble the bike.
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Old 05-05-20, 05:13 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Trevtassie
Oh yeah, forgot to add, as well as the tube on the post, use small zip ties around the pads to set up the toe in. Not too tight so you can slip them off when you finish. Can use different sized zip ties for different toe in. Works for bolt mount pads too.
Reckon the weird cabling on the front brake is just the excess cable tucked behind the straddle cable bolt.
Personally on both brakes I'd have the pads further out from the arms to straighten the straddle cable, increases the sensitivity and power of the brakes.
Zip ties ares a good idea. I've been using thick rubber bands but don't always have one when I need it.
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Old 05-05-20, 05:44 AM
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I may not be your typical rider/mechanic, but I've had cantilever brakes since my 1983 Trek 720, and that's what's on almost all of my bikes now. Installing and adjusting cantilever brakes is one of those things that seems tricky the first time, but with some of the advice you're getting here plus all the Youtube videos, once you've done it once or twice it's not a big deal AT ALL. It's actually super simple.

That said, it's definitely easier with better-quality brake sets. Tension adjustment screws on both sides makes centering them easier. Most of the old Shimano do not, while something newer like my favorite, Avid Shorty 4 or 6, does. Plus better-quality brakes stay in adjustment longer. It's not unusual for my wife and I to ride a couple of whole seasons without having to adjust the brakes at all. Maybe a little turn of the barrel adjuster as the cable stretches, but generally good ones will stay adjusted and rock-solid.

If I'm looking at a used bike, I don't disqualify it from consideration if it has V-brakes, but I strongly prefer cantilevers.
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Old 05-05-20, 09:19 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Jeff Neese
I may not be your typical rider/mechanic, but I've had cantilever brakes since my 1983 Trek 720, and that's what's on almost all of my bikes now. Installing and adjusting cantilever brakes is one of those things that seems tricky the first time, but with some of the advice you're getting here plus all the Youtube videos, once you've done it once or twice it's not a big deal AT ALL. It's actually super simple.

That said, it's definitely easier with better-quality brake sets. Tension adjustment screws on both sides makes centering them easier. Most of the old Shimano do not, while something newer like my favorite, Avid Shorty 4 or 6, does. Plus better-quality brakes stay in adjustment longer. It's not unusual for my wife and I to ride a couple of whole seasons without having to adjust the brakes at all. Maybe a little turn of the barrel adjuster as the cable stretches, but generally good ones will stay adjusted and rock-solid.

If I'm looking at a used bike, I don't disqualify it from consideration if it has V-brakes, but I strongly prefer cantilevers.
It's not hard per se it's just a waste of time and effort if you want to get them perfectly adjusted.
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Old 05-05-20, 09:28 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Oneder
It's not hard per se it's just a waste of time and effort if you want to get them perfectly adjusted.
Waste of time and effort? It's hardly that, since it doesn't take very long, isn't that hard, and they stay perfectly adjusted almost forever. That's the opposite of a waste of time.
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Old 05-05-20, 11:57 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Oneder
It's not hard per se it's just a waste of time and effort if you want to get them perfectly adjusted.
As waste of time? How? So you are saying adjusting the brakes properly is a waste of time? Let's see, yesterday I spend less than ten minutes adjusting my front brakes. It was easy, and they work better now. Did I just waste my time? Sorry, it isn't difficult, or time consuming to adjust cantilever brakes. It is like anything, you learn how to do it, and suddenly it isn't difficult.
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Old 05-05-20, 05:38 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Dwillems26
Are just there worst! Yes they work great, yes they center themselves pretty well. But holy coconuts they are the biggest pain to adjust. Spent an hour on these things and they still aren't perfect. It's a beach cruiser though so I'm calling it done.


This style is even worse! There's 2 cables to pull and adjust 🤬
Are you anchoring both cables on the same bolt? That is the problem.
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Old 05-05-20, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by phughes
As waste of time? How? So you are saying adjusting the brakes properly is a waste of time? Let's see, yesterday I spend less than ten minutes adjusting my front brakes. It was easy, and they work better now. Did I just waste my time? Sorry, it isn't difficult, or time consuming to adjust cantilever brakes. It is like anything, you learn how to do it, and suddenly it isn't difficult.
It's a waste of time to spend ten minutes instead of one minute. If you enjoy doing it then it is another thing, but if you just care about time and ease then no it's a lot less efficient use of time.
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Old 05-05-20, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Oneder
It's a waste of time to spend ten minutes instead of one minute. If you enjoy doing it then it is another thing, but if you just care about time and ease then no it's a lot less efficient use of time.
Yep, ten minutes in the last four years, I am amazed I have gotten anything else done. Seriously?
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Old 05-06-20, 02:00 PM
  #72  
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Let us never forget that Oneder's member profile is 100% accurate.
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Old 05-08-20, 08:17 PM
  #73  
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right angles is your friend.

Ive only ever ridden the one bike with handbrakes? and don't know what all the fuss is about? Ok, I was never that impressed with the mafac cantilevers on my 35 year old touring bike, was told they were powerful brakes, but could never get enough braking that a wheel would lock up(deliberately), one day decided to have a proper look at it all and decided that the way it was setup(Ive had it from new) didnt really lend itself to mechanical advantage in that the cantilever arms were not at right angles to the centre pulling cable, adjusted both the length of the pad rod arms to the cantilevers and raised the centre tie height so that the cables to each cantilever were going to be as near to a right angle through the whole movement of the hand brake lever, and voila, can lock the wheels up with just two fingers on the levers.

In the bike that is shown with the problem, apart from the incorrect anchor point for the centre cable, I would advise moving the arms further away from the wheel and increasing the distance to the centre pull junction.
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Old 05-09-20, 09:27 AM
  #74  
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Spending time on a bicycle internet discussion forum talking about wasting time seems strange.
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Old 05-29-20, 04:31 AM
  #75  
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Are the ones that points straight out more efficient than the ones in the above picture? I got the onyx but was wondering about getting a pair that are more horizontally oriented for better braking?

Any thoughts?
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