Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

"...his hat, his little bike shorts..."

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

"...his hat, his little bike shorts..."

Old 06-05-20, 08:34 AM
  #26  
VegasTriker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sin City, Nevada
Posts: 2,308

Bikes: Catrike 700, Greenspeed GTO trike, , Linear LWB recumbent, Haluzak Horizon SWB recumbent, Balance 450 MTB, Cannondale SM800 Beast of the East

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 366 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 53 Times in 43 Posts
Seems to be a spate of people out there just aching for a fight. I came across one Wednesday morning who apparently took issue with my donning a face mask before entering a store for my weekly food purchases. The issue was over a parking space but I am sure it was really the mask since he wasn't wearing one even though the store has a big sign requesting you use one. There were four parking spaces in a row, One was clearly marked with a handicapped only sign as well as on the pavement. Two spaces to the left of it have a sign asking users to leave it open for "families with children". Those had been in place long before the current stores were opened. There are no shops that actually cater to children and the closest, a gym, is permanently closed. The last space, the one that I parked in, used to have a similar sign but it had been painted over. They carry no legal authority. He asked me where my "handicapped parking placard" was. I told him that I was parked legally and neither in the one space designated for handicapped parking nor in the two spaces for families with children. Then he threatened to deck me. I suggested he mind his own business and that I would have him arrested for assault if he laid a finger on me. He wasn't happy but continued to mouth off as he approached the store. Once inside I called for the store manager, explained what had happened, and asked him to call the police if this jerk did anything in the store. He asked if I wanted them right now but I said just be aware of the situation. By that time the jerk had picked up a newspaper and the one item he wanted and was at the end of a checkout line so it seemed OK.
VegasTriker is offline  
Old 06-05-20, 08:43 AM
  #27  
livedarklions
Cogs in back, right?
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 7,405

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3838 Post(s)
Liked 2,607 Times in 1,499 Posts
Originally Posted by nomadmax View Post
You would know more about it than I, so I defer the knowledge you got in law school. That said, the crux of what I'm saying is that's unacceptable conduct and it can't be justified. Maybe it could be construed as hate crime?

While not a lawyer, I did spend a career that had me in the courtroom frequently and we both know when a case gets special attention a defendant can be charged with darn near anything. What they plead to or are convicted of is another matter. I might be a little sensitive to this kind of subject but part of my job I retired from was to ensure that citizens had the right speak out and protest peacefully; even if their focus was on my profession. I could never burn a US flag except in accordance with old flag destruction policy. However, I have protected the rights of people to do so because I believe our freedoms supersede the emblem of those freedoms.

Really, really clear multiple acts of assault. If I were a prosecutor trying to be creative here, I might argue that the bicycle was used as a weapon which might bump up the level of assault, but I don't know if that would work in Maryland.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 06-05-20, 09:17 AM
  #28  
oldlady62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times in 9 Posts
Wow! That guy needs to be arrested.

https://www.cbs.com/shows/cbs_this_m...-floyd-flyers/
oldlady62 is offline  
Old 06-05-20, 09:19 AM
  #29  
Kapusta
Cyclochondriac
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,301
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1412 Post(s)
Liked 569 Times in 359 Posts
Charges or not, if/when this guy is outed, his life is going to suck for a while.
Kapusta is offline  
Likes For Kapusta:
Old 06-05-20, 09:30 AM
  #30  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 10,450

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '87 Schwinn Prelude, Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo, '18 Diamondback Syncr

Mentioned: 94 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4082 Post(s)
Liked 1,055 Times in 677 Posts
1- it sounds like the Dbag and the dude with the camera both have Aussie accents. Not at all important, just funny that it stuck out to me.

2- sure the guy should be found and talked with by police. But literal jail time? Im not sure. I would be furious if my daughter were scared like that, but even then it would be difficult for me to think someone should be jailed for their emotional response which didnt physically harm anyone(i assume the camera fell into the grass at the end and not that the guy was hurt).
sensitivity classes? sure.
community service? sure.
jail time? hmm.

In general, far too many in this country are incarcerated as it is.
This is coming from a short phone video and the authorities should have time to figure out what happened before and after the video to help determine cause and punishment.
mstateglfr is offline  
Likes For mstateglfr:
Old 06-05-20, 09:33 AM
  #31  
DMC707
Senior Member
 
DMC707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 3,769

Bikes: Too many to list

Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 878 Post(s)
Liked 176 Times in 118 Posts
what a *****
DMC707 is offline  
Likes For DMC707:
Old 06-05-20, 09:38 AM
  #32  
wgscott
Occam's Rotor
 
wgscott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,172
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 1,244 Times in 655 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
if my daughter were scared like that.
He is doing more than scaring her. Here is a screen-shot from the video. He is at the very least grabbing onto her arm. If you or I did that to a cop, we would be lucky to wind up in jail:




The girl should be entitled to at least as much legal protection.
wgscott is offline  
Old 06-05-20, 09:42 AM
  #33  
Kapusta
Cyclochondriac
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,301
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1412 Post(s)
Liked 569 Times in 359 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
1- it sounds like the Dbag and the dude with the camera both have Aussie accents. Not at all important, just funny that it stuck out to me.

2- sure the guy should be found and talked with by police. But literal jail time? Im not sure. I would be furious if my daughter were scared like that, but even then it would be difficult for me to think someone should be jailed for their emotional response which didnt physically harm anyone(i assume the camera fell into the grass at the end and not that the guy was hurt).
sensitivity classes? sure.
community service? sure.
jail time? hmm.

In general, far too many in this country are incarcerated as it is.
This is coming from a short phone video and the authorities should have time to figure out what happened before and after the video to help determine cause and punishment.
He should absolutely be charged for that. Whether it ends up in jail time in another matter, but it should be on his record in case it has happened in the past or does again in the future.
Kapusta is offline  
Likes For Kapusta:
Old 06-05-20, 09:45 AM
  #34  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 10,450

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '87 Schwinn Prelude, Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo, '18 Diamondback Syncr

Mentioned: 94 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4082 Post(s)
Liked 1,055 Times in 677 Posts
Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
He is doing more than scaring her. Here is a screen-shot from the video. He is at the very least grabbing onto her arm. If you or I did that to a cop, we would be lucky to wind up in jail:
The girl should be entitled to at least as much legal protection.
Ok, I took that interaction as he was grabbing at papers. The image wasnt/isnt clear enough for my old eyes.

As for the same legal protection as a cop, Im not going into that in detail.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 06-05-20, 09:47 AM
  #35  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 10,450

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '87 Schwinn Prelude, Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo, '18 Diamondback Syncr

Mentioned: 94 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4082 Post(s)
Liked 1,055 Times in 677 Posts
Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
He should absolutely be charged for that. Whether it ends up in jail time in another matter, but it should be on his record in case it has happened in the past or does again in the future.
Sure, and I said as much. Assuming what happened before and after the video doesnt explain away behavior, then the police should talk with him and I could absolutely see him having to do community service and/or classes on tolerance/acceptable social behavior.
I simply think we as a society too quickly and too often pull the 'go directly to jail' card.
mstateglfr is offline  
Likes For mstateglfr:
Old 06-05-20, 10:01 AM
  #36  
nomadmax 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 1,459
Mentioned: 91 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 661 Post(s)
Liked 703 Times in 374 Posts
Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
He is doing more than scaring her. Here is a screen-shot from the video. He is at the very least grabbing onto her arm. If you or I did that to a cop, we would be lucky to wind up in jail:




The girl should be entitled to at least as much legal protection.
I can tell you this for an absolute fact, If I were still on the job, got the call and saw that video I'd find him and arrest him for robbery. He used force in the commission of a theft offense.
nomadmax is offline  
Old 06-05-20, 10:20 AM
  #37  
delbiker1 
Mother Nature's Son
 
delbiker1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Sussex County, Delaware
Posts: 1,483

Bikes: Early 90's Ochsner road, 2006 Schwinn SS DBX, 2014 Orbea Avant MD30, 2004 Airborne Zeppelin TI, 2003 Lemond Poprad, 1989? Fuji Ace, 2001 Lemond Tourmalet, 2014? Soma Smoothie

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 406 Post(s)
Liked 308 Times in 199 Posts
I was not there and do not know the whole story. However, that is abuse, assault and endangerment of a child. Whatever took place before, or even after, is in no way a viable alibi for that behavior. If the gentleman, use the term loosely, would give himself up while sincerely apologizing and accepting that his behavior was unacceptable, it may go better for him when he is found.
delbiker1 is offline  
Likes For delbiker1:
Old 06-05-20, 10:22 AM
  #38  
wgscott
Occam's Rotor
 
wgscott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,172
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 1,244 Times in 655 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
As for the same legal protection as a cop, Im not going into that in detail.
Sorry. I didn't mean to derail into debating that. All I really meant was that most people in a civil society would agree you don't ever want to grab a cop's arm (for both legal and sanity-based reasons; the Law makes this explicit).

Similarly, most people would agree that it is rarely justified for any adult other than a parent or an entrusted care-taker to grab a child's arm (absent preventing greater immediate harm).

Last edited by wgscott; 06-05-20 at 10:30 AM.
wgscott is offline  
Old 06-05-20, 10:29 AM
  #39  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 10,450

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '87 Schwinn Prelude, Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo, '18 Diamondback Syncr

Mentioned: 94 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4082 Post(s)
Liked 1,055 Times in 677 Posts
Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
Sorry. I didn't mean to derail into debating that. All I really meant was that most people in a civil society would agree you don't ever want to grab a cop's arm (for both legal and sanity-based reasons).

Similarly, most people would agree that it is rarely justified for any adult other than a parent or an entrusted care-taker to grab a child's arm (absent preventing greater immediate harm).
Fully agree- neither should be acceptable behavior.

I really wasnt going to toss an opinion into this thread until I read how many posts continually said 'lock em up'. My inability to restrain got the best of me again.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 06-05-20, 10:30 AM
  #40  
livedarklions
Cogs in back, right?
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 7,405

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3838 Post(s)
Liked 2,607 Times in 1,499 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Sure, and I said as much. Assuming what happened before and after the video doesnt explain away behavior, then the police should talk with him and I could absolutely see him having to do community service and/or classes on tolerance/acceptable social behavior.
I simply think we as a society too quickly and too often pull the 'go directly to jail' card.
That video is just long enough to watch him very deliberately walking about 25 feet towards a defenseless and clearly terrified child, then grabbing and immobilizing her arm and taking the papers out of her hand. It's grotesque, absolutely inexcusable behavior and he compounds it by tackling the guy who was filming it. Unless they edited the kid killing his dog out of the video, there's nothing that could "explain away" this behavior.

You put a violent hand on a kid like that, a few weeks in jail is the least you should expect.

Last edited by livedarklions; 06-05-20 at 10:33 AM.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 06-05-20, 10:42 AM
  #41  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 10,450

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '87 Schwinn Prelude, Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo, '18 Diamondback Syncr

Mentioned: 94 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4082 Post(s)
Liked 1,055 Times in 677 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
That video is just long enough to watch him very deliberately walking about 25 feet towards a defenseless and clearly terrified child, then grabbing and immobilizing her arm and taking the papers out of her hand. It's grotesque, absolutely inexcusable behavior and he compounds it by tackling the guy who was filming it. Unless they edited the kid killing his dog out of the video, there's nothing that could "explain away" this behavior.

You put a violent hand on a kid like that, a few weeks in jail is the least you should expect.

I am not trying to be contrarian here, I didnt see the cyclist tackle the guy filming it. I saw the phone fall to the ground...did the guy drop it? Did the guy get tackled by the cyclist? Did the guy walk backwards and trip on something? Again, not contrarian, I am just didnt see what you saw. Maybe the video I watched was ended sooner than one you saw?

As for the guy walking towards the girl, again- he is a total dbag and his actions need to be addressed. I simply disagree that jailtime is the floor for punishment in this and a lot of other instances.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 06-05-20, 10:49 AM
  #42  
livedarklions
Cogs in back, right?
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 7,405

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3838 Post(s)
Liked 2,607 Times in 1,499 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
I am not trying to be contrarian here, I didnt see the cyclist tackle the guy filming it. I saw the phone fall to the ground...did the guy drop it? Did the guy get tackled by the cyclist? Did the guy walk backwards and trip on something? Again, not contrarian, I am just didnt see what you saw. Maybe the video I watched was ended sooner than one you saw?

As for the guy walking towards the girl, again- he is a total dbag and his actions need to be addressed. I simply disagree that jailtime is the floor for punishment in this and a lot of other instances.

Jail is for violent criminals. He is a violent criminal. Again, grotesque display, wayyyyyy beyond mere ******baggery..

He very clearly runs into the cameraman right before the camera hits the ground. I'll concede that I don't know whether the camera guy was actually successfully tackled, but the attempt is quite visible. He assaults three people in that video, two of whom were clearly retreating from him.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 06-05-20, 11:13 AM
  #43  
Slightspeed
Senior Member
 
Slightspeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,157

Bikes: 1964 Legnano Roma Olympiade, 1973 Raleigh Super Course, 1978 Raleigh Super Course, 1978 Peugeot PR10, 2002 Specialized Allez, 2007 Specialized Roubaix, 2013 Culprit Croz Blade

Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 707 Post(s)
Liked 607 Times in 333 Posts
Lots of fools out there. Some of them even know how to ride a bike.🤡
Slightspeed is offline  
Likes For Slightspeed:
Old 06-05-20, 11:15 AM
  #44  
Dirt Farmer
Senior Member
 
Dirt Farmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Madison, Wi.
Posts: 1,128

Bikes: Jamis Quest Elite; Fuji Sagres; Trek Fuel EX 8

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 315 Post(s)
Liked 47 Times in 32 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
If you watch the video, linked to in a thread in Road, you can see he has noticeable moobs.

Hey, sadly, that's how I look!
Dirt Farmer is offline  
Old 06-05-20, 11:55 AM
  #45  
Miele Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,096

Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1101 Post(s)
Liked 647 Times in 452 Posts
I'm reading another article about this. The person who posted the video was a teenager and was actually assaulted by the guy and the guy's bicycle was the weapom used in the assault. From the article at:

https://heavy.com/news/2020/06/bethe...-flyers-video/

"The teen said the cyclist injured his calf. He posted a photo showing a gash on his leg. He wrote on ******, “he rammed his bike into me and tried to pin me to the ground with it.”'

Cheers

Edit added a link to a clearer video where you definitely see the bicyclist lay a hand on the little girl.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/cyclist-as...ry?id=71080297

Last edited by Miele Man; 06-05-20 at 12:07 PM. Reason: added a link to a clearer video where you definitely see the bicyclist lay a hand on the little girl
Miele Man is offline  
Old 06-05-20, 12:15 PM
  #46  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 19,914
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 438 Times in 333 Posts
If we searched for people due to bike specific clothing and man boobs, half the people on that trail would be in trouble. I'm a little surprised that nobody knows him from that bike, it's how cyclists know each other. "oh you know that guy with an old lightspeed with campagnolo parts?"
unterhausen is offline  
Likes For unterhausen:
Old 06-05-20, 12:19 PM
  #47  
hubcyclist
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,719

Bikes: 2017 Raleigh RX 1.0, 2018 Specialized Allez

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 278 Post(s)
Liked 161 Times in 86 Posts
i'm surprised no one has noticed he has a visor on as a roadie, totally Fred move!
hubcyclist is offline  
Old 06-05-20, 12:24 PM
  #48  
blacknbluebikes
Senior Member
 
blacknbluebikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 399

Bikes: two blacks, a blue and a white.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked 68 Times in 35 Posts
The High Court of Social Media will have a field day. He might as well re-name himself "Amy Cooper."
blacknbluebikes is offline  
Likes For blacknbluebikes:
Old 06-05-20, 12:33 PM
  #49  
livedarklions
Cogs in back, right?
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 7,405

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3838 Post(s)
Liked 2,607 Times in 1,499 Posts
Originally Posted by blacknbluebikes View Post
The High Court of Social Media will have a field day. He might as well re-name himself "Amy Cooper."

These people are convicting themselves. If they're stupid and vile enough to act like this in front of a camera, they really have no valid complaint when it goes viral.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 06-05-20, 12:44 PM
  #50  
thumpism 
Bikes are okay, I guess.
Thread Starter
 
thumpism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 6,006

Bikes: Waterford Paramount Touring, Trek 510 city build, Giant CFM-2, Raleigh Sports 3-speeds in M23 & L23, Schwinn Cimarron oddball build, Marin Palisades Trail dropbar conversion, Nishiki Cresta GT

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1729 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 461 Times in 326 Posts
Originally Posted by VegasTriker View Post
Seems to be a spate of people out there just aching for a fight. I came across one Wednesday morning who apparently took issue with my donning a face mask before entering a store for my weekly food purchases. The issue was over a parking space but I am sure it was really the mask since he wasn't wearing one even though the store has a big sign requesting you use one. There were four parking spaces in a row, One was clearly marked with a handicapped only sign as well as on the pavement. Two spaces to the left of it have a sign asking users to leave it open for "families with children". Those had been in place long before the current stores were opened. There are no shops that actually cater to children and the closest, a gym, is permanently closed. The last space, the one that I parked in, used to have a similar sign but it had been painted over. They carry no legal authority. He asked me where my "handicapped parking placard" was. I told him that I was parked legally and neither in the one space designated for handicapped parking nor in the two spaces for families with children. Then he threatened to deck me. I suggested he mind his own business and that I would have him arrested for assault if he laid a finger on me. He wasn't happy but continued to mouth off as he approached the store. Once inside I called for the store manager, explained what had happened, and asked him to call the police if this jerk did anything in the store. He asked if I wanted them right now but I said just be aware of the situation. By that time the jerk had picked up a newspaper and the one item he wanted and was at the end of a checkout line so it seemed OK.
My wife and I were discussing this morning during a hardware and grocery run that people were much more polite when everyone wore masks during the beginning of lockdown but now that things are easing up the *ssh*l*s are back in bloom. Not just in parking lots but inside the stores the lane discipline and courtesy have evaporated. I'm sure the economic woes, joblessness and tight money are getting to people and, while we're fortunate enough to be retired and well-positioned, we're trying not to take anything for granted, including who might be armed and itchy at any moment.
thumpism is offline  
Likes For thumpism:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.