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New oil pan -- is my mechanic ripping me off?

Old 07-28-17, 09:13 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
Just depends on if it's a keeper. I've seen a cargo van with over a million miles on it.
Yes, exceptions.

But likely that an ordinary passenger vehicle is going to be totalled or have a really major and very very expensive malfunction (eg, engine rebuild) before then.

The other thing about vehicles that are running all the time, such as a cargo van, is that they largely bypass the biggest killer for engines -- start-up when the oil pressure hasn't built up to operating levels.
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Old 07-28-17, 09:35 PM
  #27  
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I'm always impressed by how effective the threat of no warranty or void warranty is.

In this case it's an OIL PAN, which (let's face it) is nothing more complicated than a aluminum cake pan, plus a couple of bolts and a gasket. How does an oil pan go bad where you'd need a warranty? Just about the only way is for the drain plug thread to strip, so apparently any warranty can't mean much.

It saddens me to hear of folks being made to spend serious dough for something that should be a roughly $30.00 fix.
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Old 07-28-17, 09:54 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
I'm always impressed by how effective the threat of no warranty or void warranty is.

In this case it's an OIL PAN, which (let's face it) is nothing more complicated than a aluminum cake pan, plus a couple of bolts and a gasket. How does an oil pan go bad where you'd need a warranty? Just about the only way is for the drain plug thread to strip, so apparently any warranty can't mean much.

It saddens me to hear of folks being made to spend serious dough for something that should be a roughly $30.00 fix.
id guess thwey meant that the oil plug may back out loseing the oil and killing engine but im wrong a lot
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Old 07-28-17, 10:20 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by windhchaser View Post
id guess thwey meant that the oil plug may back out loseing the oil and killing engine but im wrong a lot
Yes, that's probably it. But a used oil pan from the junk yard, or any one of a number of standard repairs for the job would meet the objection.

In any case, it's a fear based pitch, and I'd have no problem saying "keep the warranty, I'll find someone who'll do the fix within a reasonable budget.
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Old 07-29-17, 12:49 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
Yes, exceptions.

But likely that an ordinary passenger vehicle is going to be totalled or have a really major and very very expensive malfunction (eg, engine rebuild) before then.

The other thing about vehicles that are running all the time, such as a cargo van, is that they largely bypass the biggest killer for engines -- start-up when the oil pressure hasn't built up to operating levels.
Depends on where you live and how salted the roads are/wet the region is, how you drive, what vehicle you drive, and how big your tolerance is for things breaking and having to get a tow truck and wait a bit on a shop.

We put in used engines and transmissions for people all the time who have commonly available in junk yard drive trains, and it ends up being far less costly than a new or newer car. The thing is though, here, unlike where I am from, you can easily drive a car with available parts for 40 years or more, and a lot of people do. In the midwest, we often told people who needed engines and transmissions in cars with severe rust to have it crushed and buy a new car, here it's far less often the economical choice.
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Old 07-29-17, 01:34 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
I'm always impressed by how effective the threat of no warranty or void warranty is.

In this case it's an OIL PAN, which (let's face it) is nothing more complicated than a aluminum cake pan, plus a couple of bolts and a gasket. How does an oil pan go bad where you'd need a warranty? Just about the only way is for the drain plug thread to strip, so apparently any warranty can't mean much.

It saddens me to hear of folks being made to spend serious dough for something that should be a roughly $30.00 fix.
$500 for the starter seems a little excessive. Most of the starters from auto parts stores are rebuilt, and run somewhere around $100. They generally aren't that hard to put in.

As far as the oil pan, perhaps it depends a bit on the vehicle. I managed to sludge up the oil intake on my Ford Ranger Pickup. I.E. The oil pan had to come off in a Motel parking lot What a major pain in the rear. I came as close as you could get to pulling the engine without actually pulling the engine.

Ahhh... found a description of pulling the oil pan on a Honda.
oil pan gasket change

It sounds like a cake-walk. Still not a simple task to remove it.

It may depend on whether the shop is using all new parts, or is sourcing used parts (hopefully in good condition). But, I doubt the labor will be real cheap.
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Old 07-29-17, 05:14 AM
  #32  
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I'd try a oversized drain plug first, if your mech. will install it.
just hope he installs right.
it wouldn't hurt since your pan is useless strip.
a few bucks compared to $400.

Last edited by skycomag; 07-29-17 at 09:01 AM.
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Old 07-29-17, 05:43 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
I'm always impressed by how effective the threat of no warranty or void warranty is.

In this case it's an OIL PAN, which (let's face it) is nothing more complicated than a aluminum cake pan, plus a couple of bolts and a gasket. How does an oil pan go bad where you'd need a warranty? Just about the only way is for the drain plug thread to strip, so apparently any warranty can't mean much.

It saddens me to hear of folks being made to spend serious dough for something that should be a roughly $30.00 fix.
The thing is... if the plug was knackered prior to this oil change, then there would have been oil dripping out, surely. If not, then I can only assume that the plug and thread were sound on being dropped off for this oil change, and in putting the plug back in, the mechanic has messed it up. And... if the thread was indeed knackered at the previous oil change, and it was the same mechanic who did that one, then he is still liable.

I might be able to see that the thread wore out this time around, but frankly, I see this as quite unlikely. I bellieve Hondas are well engineered with the expectation that the casting around the plug would be substantial enough to last a long time even with a moderately overtightened plug.

I am not sure... but I would be disputing the reason why this repair/replacement has to be made in the first place, why an entire pan replacement is justified anyway, and why a helicoil repair wasn't done, warranty be damned.

I might even go so far as to pay for it with CC and then dispute the charge, just to ensure I got the car back in my hands.
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Old 07-29-17, 05:50 AM
  #34  
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This leads me on to saying that I know of a case of a friend whose father took his camper to an auto repair place that was accredited by the state government to supply roadworthy certificates. The certificate was duly issued and the van sold with it as required when transferring registration.

Thing is, the new owner took the van to a friend mechanic who then identified 25 defects in the vehicle. Yes, some might have been nit-picky, but others such as in the front suspension, weren't.

That unleashed a whole tirade of abuse from the original mechanic who subsequently was threatened with withdrawal of his roadworthy testing licence.

The car business seems to attract conmen and shysters and the plain incompetent. I can do a lot of my own work, frustrating as it might be at times, but there is some distinct satisfaction in having my van still purring along 18 months after I replaced the head on the diesel engine. After getting quotes on supply of OEM parts previosuly from the local dealer, and suffering a severe case of sticker shock, eBay and the internet in general has become a real friend in sourcing parts.

And looking at it from the point of these forums, bicycles are darned easy to work on in comparison. And much, much cheaper!!
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Old 07-29-17, 06:28 AM
  #35  
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You should have asked him to rethread the pan.Put in a bigger nut.
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Old 07-29-17, 10:18 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
The thing is... if the plug was knackered prior to this oil change, then there would have been oil dripping out, surely. If not, then I can only assume that the plug and thread were sound on being dropped off for this oil change, and in putting the plug back in, the mechanic has messed it up.
Logically you'd certainly think so, but the gasket is what stops the oil, not the threads, and they can be about to all snap out and come out looking like a spring, and still for another one or two or three oil changes look like they are intact, and seal up fine before it happens, maybe feeling a bit iffy, but still working, and when they still work and torque down that is not the time to change the plug to an over sized.

What I like to do is if the threads feel a bit iffy going in or coming out and it's not entirely clear what's going on, I like to change the plug to a fresh OE size on principle out of the hopes it's the plug's threads that are bad, and if it still clearly is having issues, I can then talk to the customer about whatever might be the appropriate decision to make about how to fix it or leave it be for the time being.

Last edited by Michigander; 07-29-17 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 07-29-17, 11:33 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
The thing is... if the plug was knackered prior to this oil change, then there would have been oil dripping out, surely......
Not quite.

Oil pan treads aren't dry seal, and don't prevent leakage. That's what the O-ring or washer is for.

But threads in aluminum don't have to be mishandled to "wear" out. The repeated distortions of the plug being tightened hard can cause fretting, flaking or wear, and progressively to the point that a mechanic may make a judgement call that it's time to do something.

So, I don't have an issue with the need to attend to the problem, nor do I blame the mechanic. My problem is the pressure to solve it the most expensive way when there are so many well proven extremely inexpensive ways. That's doubly true when we consider the age of the vehicle.
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Old 07-31-17, 09:07 AM
  #38  
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I had a similar story with the VW dealer that serviced my car. My wagon has a turbocharged engine and there was an extended warranty in place with proof of proper oil change intervals, filter size, and synthetic oil grade. To me, it was pretty much a guaranteed service income for oil changes by the manufacturer. Each and every oil change was done at the purchasing dealership. One change, the tech comes out and says "someone stripped the pan last change." It was the same tech who did the last change.

I got into negotiations with the dealership manager. The absolute best they would done is pay for the parts, but not the service to install. Due to VW's shoehorning a transverse designed engine into a longitudinal placement and the framework under the car, this was a little more labor intensive. They did the job and I paid the labor but I've never been back there again. I order parts online and DIY most work and farm out more major stuff to a trusted local mechanic. I've never opened the drain plug again - I bought one of these:

and extract the oil from the top. Works like a charm on this engine, but not on every engine (won't drain a GM 3.8 V6).

I figure that having me pay $200 or $300 on that labor bill cost them several thousand dollars in lost sales not to mention the steering others away from their service dept. Needless to say, I won't buy another car there either.

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Old 07-31-17, 09:10 AM
  #39  
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Hi again all.

Paid the big bill ($1000 for starter + oil pan + sundries), and your comments are confirming my decision to get rid of this car and mechanic.

He showed me the old oil pan, the drain plug had some aluminum in its threads, and the hole itself looked as smooth as a baby's butt. He said not from stripping (i.e. not my fault), but 'we see this occasionally, due to age and heat..." Anyways, I felt I had no option since my wife had authorized the fix (because he described it as an unavoidable emergency), and he had already taken everything apart.

So, can anybody from North County Inland/San Diego recommend a cheap mechanic? One who is more amenable to solutions that are appropriate the age of a vehicle, rather than the most expensive fix every time?
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Old 07-31-17, 08:32 PM
  #40  
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I'm a shop owner who will do $1mil this year with no advertising. Ask everybody you know where they take their cars. You will probably see a pattern developing around one good honest shop. If you find one they will probably be pretty booked up, just be patient.
A shop that puts cheap prices in their ads is a sure ripoff.
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Old 08-01-17, 12:43 PM
  #41  
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you have a torque sequence for the bolts on the oil pan and its gasket,

just like the ones on the cylinder head..


bad public transportation was made a fact, to sell cars.. private transportation.
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Old 08-02-17, 06:54 PM
  #42  
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I used to think auto shops (dealer or private mech) employed semi-skilled (say floor sweepers, washers) and skilled workers (mechanics) but now I'm not so sure. Took my pickup in for an oil change and someone put it on a lift and tried to jack it up by the running boards. $5,000+ damage and a month to fix at the shop's expense.
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Old 08-04-17, 03:58 PM
  #43  
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@RubeRad

I had to replace both catalytic converters after about 100K, so that one (which you mentioned in my thread) is probably real. (And real expensive. People steal the Pt out of them here.)
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Old 08-04-17, 04:10 PM
  #44  
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If thats the regular place you have oil changes, they are the ones that ruined the pan drain screw threads. It can be tapped-out and work the rest of the cars life. They have repair kits just for this kind of thing. Dit they use an air gun to tighten it on? They usually have high school kids doing this sort of work for little pay.
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Old 08-05-17, 08:55 AM
  #45  
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I bought a Volvo in small part because there is an extremely reputable independent Volvo repair shop right around the corner, easy walking distance, from where I work. He's never jerked me around, overcharged, or suggested more expensive work; has done me small favors and provided some small services at no charge. I mean, I always wanted a C30, anyway, but knowing that shop was there made a bit of a difference in my decision.

Where I used to live, there was an indy Honda dealer with the same kind of reputation, and if I was still in that locale, I might be driving some kind of Honda, instead...
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Old 08-05-17, 09:35 AM
  #46  
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Computer repair techs, owning their business, are @ $48/hour, whats the dealers shop rate.. ?
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Old 08-05-17, 09:49 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Jseis View Post
I used to think auto shops (dealer or private mech) employed semi-skilled (say floor sweepers, washers) and skilled workers (mechanics) but now I'm not so sure. Took my pickup in for an oil change and someone put it on a lift and tried to jack it up by the running boards. $5,000+ damage and a month to fix at the shop's expense.
Changing oil is one one of the least desired jobs in a shop, and that makes it hard to attract good employees. That's one of the main reasons I still change me own oil, I've seen too many mistakes in the past.
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Old 08-07-17, 09:51 AM
  #48  
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I changed the oil in my GF's daugther's 2015 Civic over the weekend, and Honda sure made in annoying to do if you can't raise the car. What an unnecessary pain in the hindquarters.
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Old 08-07-17, 11:33 AM
  #49  
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Old Days, dig a pit, to stand in , under the car.




now those quick oil change shops suck it out (ala #38) rather than drain it from the bottom..

[Bar stool neighbor worked at a Jiffy-Lube, said they have tools in preparation, there,
to fix drain plugs the customer may have damaged]







.....

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Old 08-28-17, 08:33 AM
  #50  
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Got a 2013 Nissan Quest yesterday, time to wash&wax the Odyssey for sale.
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