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Can't get my chain clean

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Can't get my chain clean

Old 07-09-19, 06:02 PM
  #26  
cyccommute 
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As with most chain lube threads, this one is full of unnecessary cleaning rituals and misinformation. Let’s begin:

Originally Posted by michaeldb
I agree with a few of the posters above. remove the chain to get a good deep cleaning.
On very badly rusted, dirty chains I start with industrial de-greasers and regular dish soap in a container in the sink.
I keep working the chain until it loosens up and no more dirt seem to be coming out of the links, than rinse with water.
Next I soak it in denatured alcohol and continue agitating. alcohol will help remove smaller particles and remove water from the rinse.
Next I soak in WD40 and keep agitating. if the alcohol or wwd40 changes color its still has dirt trapped in the links so do a fluid change and repeat.
one pint soup containers w covers work great for soaking and shaking the chain.
It a slow process (1hr), but I just savaged a sedis that looked like it was trashed and when cleaned looked and functioned as new.
Why? Why try to salvage a rusted chain to begin with? Chains are cheap and not worth the time to recover them.

And why do unnecessary cleaning? Water based degreasers and dish soap may work on some grease but the volume needed is prohibitively high. I understand the rinsing with alcohol after water but if you don’t use the water, you don’t need the alcohol. Start with the WD40 minus the mineral oil in it and just start with mineral spirits which is most of what is in WD40. Shake your chain in mineral spirits and let it dry. One and done.

Originally Posted by Racing Dan
Im sure your method is great, but it sure does sound like a chore. Did you ever try just shaking the chain about in a jar with 1/2 a cup of mineral spirit for a minute or two. I find that method perfectly adequate.
Yup. Not much mess and not nearly as much fuss. Personally I have better things to do then take an hour to clean a chain. I go one step further than you, however. I clean the chain once to remove the factory lube. That’s the last cleaning, or even removal, until I replace the chain. I use a wax based lube (Rock ‘n’ Roll or White Lightning) and don’t have to clean the chain ever. My chains...well my hands when I have to handle the chain.... look like this even in the middle of their life


2013-07-26 08.06.29 by Stuart Black, on Flickr

Life is way too short to spend much time on cleaning chains.

Originally Posted by rumrunn6
rubbing alcohol is so easy to find & we probably already have a bottle in the closet at home. wonder if that's all we need?
Nope. Too polar. If it dissolves in water, it probably won’t dissolve in oil. Rubbing alcohol...2-propanol or isopropanol...will dissolve in water in all proportions. That means that it is almost as polar as water. 1- and 2-butanol might work but it’s far too expensive and not that easy to get.

Originally Posted by rumrunn6
lol, good to know! "Only when a dirty chain is oiled, or has excessive oil on it, can this grit move inside to cause damage. Commercial abrasive grinding paste is made of oil and silicon dioxide (sand) and silicon carbide (sand). You couldn't do it better if you tried to destroy a chain, than to oil it when dirty."
Gotta disagree here. Any lubricant that is mobile enough to move from inside the chain to the outside, and vis versa, will carry grit with it. The grit that gets thrown at the chain consists of a wide range of particles from macroscopic (what you can see) to near atomic range. Any particle that is small enough to get into the chain will wear the chain.


Additionally, any solvent that will remove the oil will remove the grit. Most all chain lubricants have a carrier solvent that is meant to flush out the old lube...and any grit with it...and leave fresh oil behind. It’s not perfect but it’s good enough.

Waxes stay cleaner because they don’t serve as a trap for grit (and wear products). They aren’t as mobile so they don’t fill back in like oil can but they don’t carry grit with them. That means there is more metal to metal wear.

All this boils down to chains wear either though trapped grit or due to starved bearing points. They wear about the same rate so no matter what you do, the chain will last about the same. One lubricant method is cleaner than the other.

Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun
Wipe it off after each ride and lube every month or as needed.

Who cares if it looks dirty... the dirt you see isn't what wears it down anyway. All that degreaser is doing is remove lube where the wear actually happens. So that cleaning may even shorten chain life.

Replace chain at 0.5% elongation.

All that time and money spent on cleaners costs you many riding miles.
I agree with some of this but disagree with other parts. I don’t wipe (don’t need to) but I lube as needed (300 to 700 miles)

Dirt, on the other hand, is a different matter. While it is true that the dirt you can see is of little concern, it is the source of grit that wears the chain comes from the dirt on the outside. Solvent that gets the old lube out gets the grit out. Oil that traps dirt drags grit into the chain.
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Old 07-10-19, 03:08 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute

Yup. Not much mess and not nearly as much fuss. Personally I have better things to do then take an hour to clean a chain. I go one step further than you, however. I clean the chain once to remove the factory lube. That’s the last cleaning, or even removal, until I replace the chain. I use a wax based lube (Rock ‘n’ Roll or White Lightning) and don’t have to clean the chain ever. My chains...well my hands when I have to handle the chain.... look like this even in the middle of their life
In fact I just brush some mineral spirits onto the chain, cassette and chain wheels, let soak and drip onto at a piece of cardboard, - then hose/wash the bike like normal. The MS dissolves the oil and gunk enough that water, with or without soap, will remove most of it with minimum effort. Its minimum effort but the result is satisfactory. Cleaning in a jar IS better, but im not sure its worth it. Maybe if I had a Whipperman chain link that is removable by hand?

Last edited by Racing Dan; 07-10-19 at 03:13 AM.
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Old 07-10-19, 07:13 AM
  #28  
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if you're desperate, there's always stream cleaning ...

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Old 07-10-19, 08:26 AM
  #29  
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+1 on removing the chain for cleaning / lubrication.

On mine I use the Park Tool MLP-1.2 Master Link Pliers for removal / replacement of the master link.

My chain is cleaned in my heated ultrasonic cleaner by placing the chain in a jar w/ soapy water, then mineral spirits, then denatured alcohol. The chain comes out super clean, inside and out.

The lubrication is provided by proper application of Molton Speed Wax per the manufacturer's instructions using my modified wax warmer.

Afterwards the chain is always clean to handle and very quiet during operation.
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Old 07-10-19, 08:46 AM
  #30  
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(I didn't read every post, sorry.)

I've never cleaned a chain on the bike with degreaser. I worry it'll get into the hubs or freewheel.



Some years ago, I would remove the chain -- I had Connex links, extremely easy to remove and install with no tools.

Shake in a half gallon plastic milk bottle with mineral spirits. (Then store the spirits in a glass jar. The crud settles out and it's clear again.)

Shake again with water and dish detergent. I'd still see some dirt in the water at first, then a second rinse would be clear.

Rinse well. wipe off water. I'd usually hang it by one end, drip rubbing alcohol down the chain to get the water out, and wipe dry. Then dry at least overnight, preferably with some heat. Or use a hair dryer.

Reinstall. Lube
BUT-- it was dirty again within 10 days. The lube itelf is turning black from road dust, but likely mostly from extremely fine metal particles from the chain.

~~~~~

Now:
Just wipe off the outside with paper towels dampened with rubbing alcohol
-- which dries fast. A really dirty chain? paper towels with mineral spirits.

Relube. Let it sit for 5 or 10 minutes.
Wipe off the outside with repeated dry paper towels. No need to keep lube on the outside of the chain.

It still turns black quickly. But the chain lasts just as long, 3500-4000 miles, depending.

Last edited by rm -rf; 07-10-19 at 08:51 AM.
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Old 07-10-19, 09:08 AM
  #31  
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I'm the last person that should be giving advice on cleaning but ......

I just use Pro-Link Chain Lube ... just put a drop or two on each link, let it sit a few minutes then grip a cloth around a section of chain with one hand and pedal backwards with the other hand. Do this for maybe a minute or two, readjusting my cloth to a cleaner section to pick up more grease. I'm not overly compulsive about having a squeaky clean chain so this works for me. Takes less than 10 minutes, including the 5 where I let the lube sit in the links before wiping off the excess. I do this every few weeks or so unless I got caught in the rain or went on a dusty/gravel road and it got extra dirty.
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Old 07-10-19, 09:52 AM
  #32  
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I use the Park chain cleaner and Mr Clean (undiluted) to clean my chain and then lube it with White Lightning.
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Old 07-10-19, 10:23 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by wingless
+1 on removing the chain for cleaning / lubrication.On mine I use the Park Tool MLP-1.2 Master Link Pliers for removal / replacement of the master link.
I should really try that. I bought that tool & at least one of my bikes has this


Last edited by rumrunn6; 07-15-19 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 07-10-19, 11:11 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...and the Lord said unto them, "Cast off your chains, and be free of cleansing them."
Pretty much. Mine go for about 600 miles on this filthy road I used to commute on, then I just change it. You guys are working way too hard, chains are cheap - you're using more in cleaners, lubes and time than it costs to just replace them. I seldom to never ever lube the darn things - all lube does is attract dirt - and they still last 600. Heck, every few chains, I get a free one - the left over lengths all hooked together.
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Old 07-10-19, 11:23 AM
  #35  
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I spent $16 on chain lube and $4 on cleaning wax last year. Had I run a 600 mile replacement interval I’d have spent at least $300 on replacement chains.
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Old 07-10-19, 11:52 AM
  #36  
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If you've got a high end 12 speed bike and ride a lot, chain life is important. Some people think that 1500 miles is ok, but I expect a lot more. I get that by using a dry lube that doesn't attract dirt and rotate between at least 3 chains. Each chain gets lubed once a week and cleaned when it comes off, maybe every 2-3 weeks. Chains can be used longer and you'll never have new-chain skip.
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Old 07-11-19, 12:18 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot
I spent $16 on chain lube and $4 on cleaning wax last year. Had I run a 600 mile replacement interval I’d have spent at least $300 on replacement chains.
...a quality replacement 6-8 speed KMC chain online (the 8.93) costs about ten bucks per chain. If you rode your bike 18,000 miles last year, my hat is off to you, sir.
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Old 07-11-19, 07:29 AM
  #38  
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I thought if you pedal backwards the chain self-cleans?
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Old 07-11-19, 10:17 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Zorba
Pretty much. Mine go for about 600 miles on this filthy road I used to commute on, then I just change it. You guys are working way too hard, chains are cheap - you're using more in cleaners, lubes and time than it costs to just replace them. I seldom to never ever lube the darn things - all lube does is attract dirt - and they still last 600. Heck, every few chains, I get a free one - the left over lengths all hooked together.


I probably oil the chain every 600 miles.

That sounds like a lot of work to acquire, change & dispose of one that often.
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Old 07-11-19, 12:15 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by woodcraft
I probably oil the chain every 600 miles.

That sounds like a lot of work to acquire, change & dispose of one that often.
Its a 10 minute job at most - and it beats taking the same chain off several times over the same time period like some apparently do. I think I last paid about $8 for a brand name chain.
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Old 07-11-19, 08:38 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Phil_gretz
If the OP is really interested in keeping the chain clean, I'd recommend a smaller ultrasonic bath. When I'm cleaning a chain for someone else, I place the removed chain into a clean empty mayonnaise jar with a few inches of mineral spirits. I pre-warm the ultrasonic bath and then stand the jar inside of the ultrasonic cleaner. Run for 10 minutes. Remove chain and place in a 2nd empty mayonnaise jar and fill with a few inches of isopropyl alcohol. Jar into ultrasonic, and run for another 10 minutes. Remove chain, hang to dry overnight.

While this is going on, I clean the drivetrain components carefully. The following day, re-mount the chain and lubricate as normal. Everything comes out pretty clean this way.

https://www.harborfreight.com/25-lit...ner-63256.html will do the trick.
I've been using my US cleaner, but never thought to do the mayo jar thing. I'll try it!
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Old 07-11-19, 09:43 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...a quality replacement 6-8 speed KMC chain online (the 8.93) costs about ten bucks per chain. If you rode your bike 18,000 miles last year, my hat is off to you, sir.
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Old 07-13-19, 06:53 PM
  #43  
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I just use the Park Chain Cleaner with Chainbrite, do 30-40 revolutions, then do another round or two of the chain cleaner with clean water, then lube the chain generously with ProLink and wipe off the excess. Might stick that Park Tool brush on the sprockets and jockey wheels while I'm at it. Done and done. Never had a problem.
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Old 07-14-19, 03:04 PM
  #44  
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If you are using mineral spirits or kerosene, please handle it so as to keep the stuff out of the environment. It is eminently reusable, as several posters have mentioned. No excuse for letting it just drip onto the grass or into the storm sewers. Also remember that mineral spirits are not easily ignitable by themselves, e.g., spilled on the garage floor, but cloths soaked with them definitely are.

I'm in the camp that avoids cleaning chains. By not over-lubing, the chain stays clean enough for me -- no great blobs of oily black steel dust gooping off it. My chains (and my fingers) look just like @cyccommute's. The mating surfaces of the teeth of the sprockets and chainrings don't get dirty, either. Every once in a great while I use a tiny screwdriver to gently scrape the packed-on stuff off the derailer pulleys -- there really isn't that much, ever, and it's more for show, really -- and it's kind of cool to confirm with a magnet that there is indeed steel in the little chunks that fall off.
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Old 07-14-19, 07:51 PM
  #45  
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So out of all this I'm getting that if I want a good clean chain I should take it off and shake it around in mineral spirits but if I don't want that hassle I should just wipe it off with paper towel every so often? I'm not doing any crazy rides or races that I need a perfectly clean and efficient chain so maybe it's just not worth it to clean it too often as it's been mentioned it gets dirty so quickly again.
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Old 07-14-19, 09:40 PM
  #46  
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I am old and old school, and thus ride and collect the "wrong" bicycles, so I do expect my method is equally wrong in the eyes of those that detest Chicago's most durable creations.
Anyway, here is how I do it:
OUTDOORS-OUTSIDE ONLY!!!! I first take an empty Coca-Cola aluminum can (12oz/355ml) and I get the Kitchen Scissors and puncture the empty can and then I cut the can so that you are left with Only about 5cm or 2 inches of a cup made from the cut Coke can...............5cm or 2 inches from the bottom of the can............................ FILL THIS TINY LITTLE CUP THAT YOU JUST MADE FROM THE COKE CAN BY CUTTING IT AROUND 2inches or 5cm up from its bottom.............FILL THIS TINY LITTLE CUP WITH Gasoline from your Lawnmower Gas Can.
Use old cotton t- shirt rag, or old sock, or small rag ripped from an old towel........and then one or two old toothbrushes......generally the more worn out that the toothbrush is, the better it cleans.......................................GASOLINE WILL REMOVE everything that sticks currently to the chain.
-----WEAR PROTECTIVE GLOVES, like an oil change technician might wear....disposable type.....
Keep Pets Clear of you while you're doing this. I'd recommend wearing goggles or safety glasses if you're the type that might get aggressive with cleaning your chain. YOU DO NOT NEED TO GET AGGRESSIVE IN TRYING TO SCRUB THE CHAIN, BECAUSE THE GASOLINE BREAKS DOWN THE ATTACHED GRIME/GUNK/OLD LUBE and THE MOIST RAG WILL GATHER IT.
Obviously, I do this while the chain is on my schwinn bicycles, I do not remove the chain.
I use new automotive motor oil as bicycle chain lube after I clean it using Gasoline.
I make certain every part of the now cleaned chain has been thoroughly Oiled and then I turn the bike upside down and crank the pedals and run the newly oil saturated chain through all the gears several times, a process that takes about 4 minutes. I then wipe Excess Oil off of the chain. I am certain that the oil has worked itself into every portion of the links and coated every chain wheel tooth and rear sprocket tooth, as well as derailleur pulleys.
Hey, I said this likely is the "wrong" way in the eyes of most of you, but it does work, and once upon a time it was how folks who rode Chicago's finest would do it. I routinely do these "Oil CHANGES" at regular intervals as the chain needs it.
This method does work well.
Disposal of the old rags is perhaps the most difficult issue that you'll encounter.

You DO NOT NEED VERY MUCH GASOLINE TO CLEAN YOUR CHAIN WHILE IT IS IN PLACE ON YOUR BICYCLE.
Thus, this is why I say use a Coke can cut down to 2 inches, and that is all the Gasoline that you will need........................if you do find that you might need more, just fill the cut Coke can again from your household Lawnmower GAS CAN.
WEAR OLD CLOTHING WHILE YOU PERFORM THIS CHORE! KEEP PETS AWAY! Wear gloves and Eye Protection. DO NOT SMOKE and Do Work Outside away from any ignition source.

*****You can alternately use RONSON Lighter Fluid (type used to fill cigarette/cigar lighters....) as that is less combustionable and less likely to have fumes that are as dangerous....... The RONSON lighter fluid has a squirter tip that folds out......squirts out a tiny hole like a squirt gun does and thus makes it easy to distribute the Lighter Fluid....
Gasoline is probably at least as effective if not better than Ronson Lighter Fluid or even Kerosense.
Gas is $3 per gallon and you already have it in your household Lawnmower gas can.
Stale gas that has been sitting in a weedwacker trimmer, lawnmower, go-cart....whatever can also be used as a cleaning agent, even though stale gas is terrible for use in engines................Stale gas = gasoline that has sat around and aged....................you don't want to use gasoline in your lawnmower that has sat around since the last use in the fall/winter to perhaps mulch leaves, --when you begin to use the mower again in April.......but stale gas can be used to clean gunky/grimy parts etc.
Gasoline isn't that terrible for the enviroment.....you aren't using much of it and you aren't going to spill much of it.
Just another tip, gasoline is perfect for eliminating Yellow Jacket nests...................long neck beer bottle filled with gasoline, wait until sundown and the nest hole(s) are quiet.......walk up and tip the beer bottle completely into the hole and leave it there, so the bottle is completely upside down....plugging the hole...... Leave the bottle there overnight at least. Yellow jackets gone............................Gasoline also effectively kills small fire ant holes....but it also kills the surrounding vegetation about an 16" circle around the center point.... Al Gore might not approve but it does the job. Gasoline has very nasty chemicals in its make-up, but so do many other products. Protect yourself. Remember that Gasoline could get on your clothing and perhaps ignite if there is any ignition source. You pump gasoline at least once a week, I'm sure so you've read the warnings posted on the gasoline pumps. Use at your own risk. DO NOT EVER EVEN THINK ABOUT USING GASOLINE INDOORS!-----------------outdoors only--------------avoid breathing the fumes-------------avoid getting gasoline on your skin, or on your clothing..........wear gloves and eye protection!
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Old 07-14-19, 10:22 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Vintage Schwinn
I am old and old school, ...FILL THIS TINY LITTLE CUP WITH Gasoline
I’m also old and pretty old school. But that doesn’t mean that I’m going to use or suggest using a chemical mixture that is toxic and extremely dangerous.

Gasoline isn’t for killing wasps or ants. Nor is it a good solvent for cleaning chains...or anything else, for that matter. Gasoline has one function...to power internal combustion engines. It contains many chemicals that make it work at just about any temperature that we humans are going to encounter. Those chemicals, however, are toxic as evidenced by your being able to kill pests with them. That should tell you something.

You are probably a lost cause but to everyone else: DON’T USE GASOLINE AS A CLEANING SOLVENT, especially for something simple to clean like a chain. There are other solvent mixtures that will do just as good a job and won’t kill you either through poisoning you (the slow way to die) or bursting you into flames (the faster and probably more painful way to die).

Additionally, if you are going to kill wasps and ants with gasoline, warn your neighbors so that aren’t shocked when they find you as a crispy critter in your backyard.
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Old 07-14-19, 11:03 PM
  #48  
woodcraft
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I find amusing the notion that wiping a chain with a rag or paper towel will not push grit into the inside,

but oiling it will, destroying the chain.
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Old 07-15-19, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by woodcraft
I find amusing the notion that wiping a chain with a rag or paper towel will not push grit into the inside,

but oiling it will, destroying the chain.
But don't you realize that wiping something up only ever results in the material going upward? Rags and paper towels are dirt magnetic, right?
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Old 07-15-19, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by woodcraft
I find amusing the notion that wiping a chain with a rag or paper towel will not push grit into the inside,

but oiling it will, destroying the chain.
Hmm. I'm one of those people who are wiping their chain with a paper towel. Although I do lube the chain afterwards.
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