Difference between a $500 bike and $5K bike
06-23-20, 11:22 AM
#101
Junior Member
If someone isn't into cycling there isn't really a difference between the two. To a casual user the weight/speed advantage doesn't matter and in some cases a casual may enjoy something like a trek FX more than a s works venge
Some people listen to music on their cell phones speaker and are ok with that, others want a fancy speaker setup
Why is one necktie $15 and another $1500?
Some people listen to music on their cell phones speaker and are ok with that, others want a fancy speaker setup
Why is one necktie $15 and another $1500?
06-23-20, 11:26 AM
#102
Senior Member
I would of thought you'd say TACOs.
Bikes are like tools, no one does everything, just like I have (4) torque wrenches and a half dozen different hammers.
Here's my wife's $500 ($565) bike. It fits her riding needs. I can't ride with her on my Emonda due to her under 7mph pace. If I had a garage sale bike with flat pedals, I would go with her. But there are none to be found.
Bikes are like tools, no one does everything, just like I have (4) torque wrenches and a half dozen different hammers.
Here's my wife's $500 ($565) bike. It fits her riding needs. I can't ride with her on my Emonda due to her under 7mph pace. If I had a garage sale bike with flat pedals, I would go with her. But there are none to be found.
In terms of number of trips, I have a $250 beach cruiser I use more often than my nice roadbike certainly nice to have options, different tools for different jobs agree 1000% with you
06-23-20, 11:26 AM
#103
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Like many, many people, my real world has never included a daughter or a garage (your limited view of how people live is shockingly limited, but if it did....
I would rather lose my $500 bike than my $5K bike. That seems like a no-brainer, but maybe you see it differently. Any other questions?
I would rather lose my $500 bike than my $5K bike. That seems like a no-brainer, but maybe you see it differently. Any other questions?
I prefer a $1 bill to a $20 because I'd rather lose the $1 bill than the $20. $1 bills are therefore clearly better. Why can't you see the logic?!
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06-23-20, 11:45 AM
#104
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06-23-20, 12:10 PM
#106
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06-23-20, 12:56 PM
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Get rid of the crossovers and drive them directly with separate amp channels as active speakers. Do the crossover in the digital domain.
That'll really make the snap-crackle-pop of soft scratchy vinyl, with its tube-enhanced euphonically superior distortion and effective 12-bit dynamic range and mono bass track, come to life.
That'll really make the snap-crackle-pop of soft scratchy vinyl, with its tube-enhanced euphonically superior distortion and effective 12-bit dynamic range and mono bass track, come to life.
The Vandy's are in the garage not being used, maybe later.
06-23-20, 02:07 PM
#109
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Its a matter of priorities. I'm deaf in on ear and lost half my hearing in the other ear. I don't want more than a bluetooth speaker. But I ride thousands of miles each year. I like to have a nice ride.
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06-23-20, 02:13 PM
#110
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06-23-20, 02:14 PM
#111
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06-23-20, 10:50 PM
#113
Wanderer
People can obsess - to the point of seeming irrationality - over almost anything. Bikes, cars, cameras, guns, computers, 19th century Tibetan pornagraphy, guitars, audio, phones - and the outsider doesn't get it - "why do you need a $5000 guitar? Does it sound better than a $500 guitar?"
Obsession is fun!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYAFI-EJBQA
Obsession is fun!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYAFI-EJBQA
06-24-20, 05:34 AM
#114
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Appeal to him on his terms. He obviously can discern the difference between $500 audio components and $5000 components. Tell him it's like that with bicycles. There is likely a similar kind of diminishing returns as well. For example a $1000 bike will likely be twice as good as a $500 bike. The differences will be palpable. But the higher in price point you go the less the differences will be apparent.
Not all riders will take their rides to similar conditions as those found in the Grand Tours. Not all recreational riders need to equip themselves as if they will be like the pros.
06-24-20, 06:54 AM
#115
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Apparent difference is the key issue here: some but not all bike manufacturers get input from the pro riders. For instance, the head tube and fork design has changed just in the last 10 years. Those professional riders can tell the difference when racing down the Tourmalet at 50+ miles per hour while negotiating the various switchbacks. Also the grand tours with its many stages means comfort versus stiffness is considered. Continuous seattube is another example.
Not all riders will take their rides to similar conditions as those found in the Grand Tours. Not all recreational riders need to equip themselves as if they will be like the pros.
Not all riders will take their rides to similar conditions as those found in the Grand Tours. Not all recreational riders need to equip themselves as if they will be like the pros.
Also keep in mind that the grand tour riders are likely to have spare copies of at least two types of bikes. They're optimizing durability for a much more limited purpose than year-in year-out usage.
We also have to keep in mind that grand tour racing is to a major extent a marketing event for the sponsors. So claims of significant performance gains from very expensive features should be taken with a grain of salt.
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06-29-20, 12:03 PM
#117
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Ok ... I think I'll weigh in on this one. I did a ton of road biking in the 80s on a Reynolds 531 sport-touring geometry. Never did much mountain biking.
For the past 15 years, the only mountain bike I had was an old, "beater" Univega with 4130 cro-mo frame. Probably thick-walled, straight-gauge, and main tubes only. I recently started doing more mountain biking with my son, and started dreaming of Bike Packing a long route, like the Great Divide MTB Route.
So ... I bought a used REEB "All Mountain." This is a $5,000.00 bike, but I got it used for $2,700.00. This bike is made with True Temper OX Platinum tubing throughout. It is insanely light, but that's not the point. It's also lively and *Responsive* with a capital "R". To ride it is amazing. I just can't compare the two bikes. It's like night and day.
To ride the old Univega, is like driving a 1967 VW Beetle (my first car). Unresponsive, cranky, sluggish, insecure-feeling. Pedaling feels like you're pushing against a brick wall.
Riding the REEB is like a 2020 BMW X-series vehicle. Very tight and eager. When you pedal, you feel it kind of leap ahead underneath you. This thing wants to GO.
Or ... it's like riding an old nag, vs. a young stallion. In all honesty ... I can't even put it into words. You just have to feel it to know what it's like. One is a joy, the other is a headache.
I think it all comes down to how much time you are going to spend on the bike. Probably the best thing to tell your friend is to go to a pro shop that has nice bikes, and let him ride the $500.00 machine, and then ride the $5,000.00 bike. He'll feel the difference himself.
For the past 15 years, the only mountain bike I had was an old, "beater" Univega with 4130 cro-mo frame. Probably thick-walled, straight-gauge, and main tubes only. I recently started doing more mountain biking with my son, and started dreaming of Bike Packing a long route, like the Great Divide MTB Route.
So ... I bought a used REEB "All Mountain." This is a $5,000.00 bike, but I got it used for $2,700.00. This bike is made with True Temper OX Platinum tubing throughout. It is insanely light, but that's not the point. It's also lively and *Responsive* with a capital "R". To ride it is amazing. I just can't compare the two bikes. It's like night and day.
To ride the old Univega, is like driving a 1967 VW Beetle (my first car). Unresponsive, cranky, sluggish, insecure-feeling. Pedaling feels like you're pushing against a brick wall.
Riding the REEB is like a 2020 BMW X-series vehicle. Very tight and eager. When you pedal, you feel it kind of leap ahead underneath you. This thing wants to GO.
Or ... it's like riding an old nag, vs. a young stallion. In all honesty ... I can't even put it into words. You just have to feel it to know what it's like. One is a joy, the other is a headache.
I think it all comes down to how much time you are going to spend on the bike. Probably the best thing to tell your friend is to go to a pro shop that has nice bikes, and let him ride the $500.00 machine, and then ride the $5,000.00 bike. He'll feel the difference himself.
06-29-20, 12:10 PM
#118
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Regrets cost more than bikes
Life can be short and hard, especially now. We all know people surprised by illness and death. That said, buy whatever makes you happy with no regrets and no justification, as long as you're keeping the lights on and honoring whatever financial duty you have, etc. I think regrets can cost more than any bike when you're looking back and realize it's too late. Sorry to get philosophical.
Now don't get us started on $5 and $50 wine comparisons......
Now don't get us started on $5 and $50 wine comparisons......
06-29-20, 12:49 PM
#119
Bike Mechanic
Tell him it is also in how well and how long it stays in adjustment, less frustration factor with better bikes
06-29-20, 01:04 PM
#120
Junior Member
It kinda the same.if you can’t appreciate the improvements that come with the extra cost, the extra cost is pointless.
06-29-20, 01:08 PM
#121
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What was so diplomacy-challenging about what he said?
Also (bear with me--obviously I don't know the guy, he's your friend--this could be completely off base), I've known that sort of thing to be engineer humor. The joke would be that he's proposing a silly but technically correct "improvement" and warning against a technically possible but unrealistic hazard. Any chance he's just ribbing you?
Also also, speaking as a non-audiophile who knows nothing of 'tubes', I fully encourage the sub-discussion of old audio equipment, ideally with more pics please.
06-29-20, 01:38 PM
#122
Full Member
My son got into triathlons at age 14. At 15 he purchased a Specialized Allez for $800 and only replaced it when he was 18 and working at a local bike shop and purchased a Cervelo P2... which is still has at age 30.
He regularly won his age group and at 17 won a Sprint Triathlon outright on that bike. He raced Olympic distance and also raced Crits. He commented that he was faster than many that had multi thousand bikes. He made the Long Island team for the Empire States Games and his team won Bronze.
It is 100% the "motor", but the bike sure does help. It also has to do with your dedication and disposable income. I bet there's a number of $5000+ bikes that are sitting in a garage and never ridden. But there are more $500 bikes being ridden alot. The LBS by me is full of repairs. And the manager knows that when Covid is over many will be put away. But there will be a number of people that will buy new bikes when available since they found they enjoy cycling and want to invest in their new hobby.
Here's my thinking on the price of bikes, it has to do with cost per mile. My rather expensive bike has a cost per mile of under 50¢. And that includes accessories and replacement parts like tires and tubes.
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Let me add that the bike my son had before he got the Allez he still owns. He put a child seat on the back and now takes my 3 year old granddaughter on rides to the beach which is 17 miles both ways.
So a $500 bike can last a long time.
He regularly won his age group and at 17 won a Sprint Triathlon outright on that bike. He raced Olympic distance and also raced Crits. He commented that he was faster than many that had multi thousand bikes. He made the Long Island team for the Empire States Games and his team won Bronze.
It is 100% the "motor", but the bike sure does help. It also has to do with your dedication and disposable income. I bet there's a number of $5000+ bikes that are sitting in a garage and never ridden. But there are more $500 bikes being ridden alot. The LBS by me is full of repairs. And the manager knows that when Covid is over many will be put away. But there will be a number of people that will buy new bikes when available since they found they enjoy cycling and want to invest in their new hobby.
Here's my thinking on the price of bikes, it has to do with cost per mile. My rather expensive bike has a cost per mile of under 50¢. And that includes accessories and replacement parts like tires and tubes.
-----------------------------------------------------
Let me add that the bike my son had before he got the Allez he still owns. He put a child seat on the back and now takes my 3 year old granddaughter on rides to the beach which is 17 miles both ways.
So a $500 bike can last a long time.
I have a Specialized Hard Rock MTB ($320 on sale at the time) which I bought when I decided I needed to get some exercise after developing sciatic nerve issues playing competitive volleyball
Injured myself in late '98 and bought the bike early '99...and still have it. Bike has a few very minor scratches. Upgraded from twist grip shifters to Shimano SIS. Have the same rims, installed a more comfortable seat ("Phorm"). replaced the brakes units and have done the usual maintenance: tires, drive train, brake pads, bearings (hub and head) regreased (but never replaced). Did not do acceptable maintenance for the 1st 10 yrs. I owned the bike, but then realized I should pay more attention. Have been diligent ever since. and the bike is in really good condition. I expect to keep it for...quite a longer time.I am no sprinter or distance rider, but I am 67 yrs. old and out at sunup 3 days/week doing ~12 mi. each ride with a 25 mi. ride thrown in whenever I get the urge to ride out by the SF Bay on gravel (where I know there won't be many road bikes
The bike feels good and I love getting exercise in the early morning air. A few years ago I thought for a moment or 2 about replacing the bike with a strong interest in disc brakes. Asked myself "Why?" and that was the last of that conversation. It's been a good bike and handles as well as *I* need it to. It was a good investment for me.Everyone has his/her sweet spot. For now, I've found mine
06-29-20, 02:02 PM
#123
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There's a few regular differences between different price points on the same model of bike:
- weight
- functionality (does the shifter shift right away, does it shift under load, etc)
- durability (how long do the parts last)
- ride quality (how comfortable the ride is)
- handling
At various times in the past different levels of cost could have dramatic differences in each of these things. For example the front shifter on a $500 bike used to be nearly useless. But as new tech and designs jave trickled down sometimes those differences have gone away.
For example several years ago I was buying a straight bar skinny tire bike. Went to 3 different shops and tried out straight bar skinny tire bikes. Didn't want to spend more than $800 but everything with an aluminum frame rode roughly for me. So I ended up buying a $1,300 full carbon version. (I wanted skinny tires you could definitely stay cheaper and good riding with fatter tires).
Next year I was looking into a different winter bike. Road another straight bar skinny tire bike with good clearance - rode very smoothly. $800 or so. Aluminum frame. I stumbled across the improvement period right after buying the other bike. Ah well.
I also have an older $800 bike and an older $3,000 bike. The $3k bike is 1-2 faster given the same effort, even when the had the same tires. But it almost never gets ridden because I can't lock it up and leave it outside at a destination and no rack.
My friends had a cheap bike from the 70's - solid tubes it literally weighed 40 or 50 pounds.
I don't exactly where the line is for differences now because I haven't bought a new bike in a while.
- weight
- functionality (does the shifter shift right away, does it shift under load, etc)
- durability (how long do the parts last)
- ride quality (how comfortable the ride is)
- handling
At various times in the past different levels of cost could have dramatic differences in each of these things. For example the front shifter on a $500 bike used to be nearly useless. But as new tech and designs jave trickled down sometimes those differences have gone away.
For example several years ago I was buying a straight bar skinny tire bike. Went to 3 different shops and tried out straight bar skinny tire bikes. Didn't want to spend more than $800 but everything with an aluminum frame rode roughly for me. So I ended up buying a $1,300 full carbon version. (I wanted skinny tires you could definitely stay cheaper and good riding with fatter tires).
Next year I was looking into a different winter bike. Road another straight bar skinny tire bike with good clearance - rode very smoothly. $800 or so. Aluminum frame. I stumbled across the improvement period right after buying the other bike. Ah well.
I also have an older $800 bike and an older $3,000 bike. The $3k bike is 1-2 faster given the same effort, even when the had the same tires. But it almost never gets ridden because I can't lock it up and leave it outside at a destination and no rack.
My friends had a cheap bike from the 70's - solid tubes it literally weighed 40 or 50 pounds.
I don't exactly where the line is for differences now because I haven't bought a new bike in a while.
06-29-20, 02:06 PM
#125
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Also (bear with me--obviously I don't know the guy, he's your friend--this could be completely off base), I've known that sort of thing to be engineer humor. The joke would be that he's proposing a silly but technically correct "improvement" and warning against a technically possible but unrealistic hazard. Any chance he's just ribbing you?
Almost certainly.
Also also, speaking as a non-audiophile who knows nothing of 'tubes', I fully encourage the sub-discussion of old audio equipment, ideally with more pics please.
(The idea with this is you get much improved sound quality if, instead of grounding the chassis of your audio device to a pipe that goes into the ground, you instead have the wire go to a gussied up box with sand inside of it.)
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