Need gentle help with a Peugot PX-10 story
08-02-20, 12:49 PM
#26
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But if you an turn a screw and follow a basic recipe, you can do it all yourself. It just takes time and about $100 worth of tools you can use for 1,000 years.
No idea why you would want to spend $700 on a pro paint job and remove all sentiment you say you care so deeply about. The paint looks really good.
08-02-20, 02:23 PM
#27
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Practical considerations:
1) I have modern bikes! Two of them: A Specialized Roubaix Elite and a Giant TCR-1 Comp. I also have a Novarra Trionfo, which is a fine (if drastically uncool) bike. The Peugot would be for special days and outings.
2) I know next to nothing about bicycles, but I do know quite a bit about guitars, and understand and respect all of the ins and outs of vintage gear fetishism. That said, something about this bike seems to ask for updating (as has already occurred).
3) Turns out my memory wasn't good about many of the parts on the bike.
4) I think - but am not sure - that I have a ceiling of around $500 I'm willing to spend on this (frame painting may or may not be included in that number).
So - what has to happen, in what order?
1) I have modern bikes! Two of them: A Specialized Roubaix Elite and a Giant TCR-1 Comp. I also have a Novarra Trionfo, which is a fine (if drastically uncool) bike. The Peugot would be for special days and outings.
2) I know next to nothing about bicycles, but I do know quite a bit about guitars, and understand and respect all of the ins and outs of vintage gear fetishism. That said, something about this bike seems to ask for updating (as has already occurred).
3) Turns out my memory wasn't good about many of the parts on the bike.
4) I think - but am not sure - that I have a ceiling of around $500 I'm willing to spend on this (frame painting may or may not be included in that number).
So - what has to happen, in what order?
Those pedals if French are nice to have and should stay and be overhauled. If the crank has been rethreaded then all bets are off.
Strip and teardown is first, do what you can yourself, find a good shop or ideally a co-op for help, maybe a member her can help, ask for a facilitator in that thread.
You may get other perspective working on it.
Take your time, we can get you through a lot if you want.
08-02-20, 02:40 PM
#28
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+1 on the paint. That shade of blue can be matched, and a respray would rob the bike of its charm and history.
08-02-20, 03:06 PM
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Cool bike. Fun to see what Sheldon Brown did to,an old French bike to get it up and running.
If that saddle is at the right height, the bike is too big.
other than that, the bike will be say to get up and running. You don’t need to spend $500 to get this in tip top shape.
the bike really doesn’t need a repaint and you will destroy its charm if you do.
If that saddle is at the right height, the bike is too big.
other than that, the bike will be say to get up and running. You don’t need to spend $500 to get this in tip top shape.
the bike really doesn’t need a repaint and you will destroy its charm if you do.
08-02-20, 03:43 PM
#30
Senior Member
Then you should be well equipped.I'm sticking to my original assessment. New tires, tune up, new brake pads, new bar tape, probably new housing and cables. It will be ride-able.
I was thinking this one was not going to be an all original garage queen, and it isn't. Most PX10 I used to seen when i was a bike mechanic were like this, if they were actually ridden. New wheels, new derailleurs etc.
A couple things to note:
1) The frame has already been converted to 6 speed 126 OLD spacing. You should be able to run 6 or 7 speeds on it. I don't immediately recognize the hubs.
2) Since those are non stock replacement pedals, I'm thinking the crank arms have been retapped from French to standard BSC threads. You should be able to put SPD pedals on there, but double check.
It's sort of a judgement call on how to proceed. I'm with the others on the paint. Keep it. It's sort of hypocritical since I repainted my current PX10, but it was in way way worse shape. Yours looks very good really, and the metallic blue is fairly rare. I'd spend some energy trying to find an auto touch up paint in a close enough color for the bare spots, and simply clean, polish and wax the rest. AFA the components, I'd be inclined to leave the slightly odd mix on there, just because Sheldon Brown did it, and it all sort of makes sense from a bike mechanic's perspective.
If you wanted to upgrade a bit I'd consider some of the following changes. Swap the saddle back to Brooks leather. Get a 37t inner chainring from bikeforums member Jonwara for that crank. Consider some TRP RRL brake levers. They'll give you a modern feel, but look semi retro. Should get back some of what you're missing with not having brifters. Lastly you could swap in some non aero wheels with Sun M13II or H+ Son TB14 rims. Those look a lot like old Rigida and Mavic rims (respectively). That's basically for aesthetics though. Having some wheels that Sheldon Brown built has it's own coolness.
The front derailleur on this bike requires a housing stop unless you want to change the guides. It's an old school feature that went out of fashion in the 70s. That's why that old Suntour is on there. I'd keep it. But just FYI, the latest Ultegra FD actually has a cable stop, strangely enough. It might work. Cage would probably be a bit narrow for that old chain though.
Lastly, that brake straddle on the front MAFAC racer brake is a bit on the long side IMHO. It will work better if shortened.
I had to kind of laugh when you described Sheldon Brown. It's kind of true. He could be grumpy. When I first 'met' him (online), honestly I thought who is this jerk. But whatever it's not like I'm perfect either. He does deserve his unofficial sainthood for what he did to preserve all the knowledge of vintage bikes that was previously mostly an oral tradition.
Last edited by Salamandrine; 08-02-20 at 03:46 PM.
08-02-20, 04:14 PM
#31
Disraeli Gears
About the only components you have on the bike that are original are the headset, the crank arms, the front brake, and we can't see the seat post, so that's a question mark.
The reason that a modern (Shimano 105) rear derailleur works is because the bike was fitted with an old-style bolt-on hanger, with the original Simplex hanger apparently untouched beneath it. If that works well enough, no problem.
I think that those Avocet slick tires may be Fasgrip Criterium K20s, though it's too hard to read the label clearly. I had a pair of those back in the 80s, and loved riding them; wish they'd never gone away. Those are a real bonus IMO.
You could easily spend your desired $500 budget on a repaint and reproduction decals, and I don't think that the finish is anywhere near bad enough to require that; but it's your bike, so no foul if you feel like going that way. Plenty of people do, though usually with a frame that looks a lot worse to begin with.
As pointed out, you already have a cartridge-bearing bottom bracket on there. I can't really tell whether a bottom bracket is shot without removing both crank arms and twirling it by hand; others may have other advice. That's one thing to check (along with the headset, hub and pedal bearings -- but the BB is not going to be serviceable anyway, so it's a go or no go item; you could ride it without ruining anything else until it really goes south, and then just replace it in kind -- easy enough to find.
The only thing about the bike that really sticks in my craw is having one Mafac Racer centerpull brake, and one Universal sidepull. Personally, I'd ditch the sidepull and get another Racer. An advantage of sidepulls is that you can get nice Kool-Stop pads that have an easy toe-in adjustment to prevent squealing on the brakes that have the pad mounting slots facing the rim. Mafacs, with the mounting slots going fore-and-aft, require a bit more ingenuity, such as the special washer with toe-in groove sold by ReneHerseCycles.com -- but you can do the same thing yourself with a file, if you're handy enough. Mafacs have a reputation for squealing, but they're really good brakes. How good a brake one needs on the rear wheel is a valid question -- it's the front that really does the work, and needs to. I basically regard the rear brake as just a sort of safety net.
I have a blue 1974 PX frame, but it's not a PX-10 with the fancy lugs like yours, but a PX-10LE (legère equipe) with plainer lugset. Yours is more special in that respect.
Re how low the saddle is: as noted above, if that really works for you, then the frame is too large. But I see a lot of people riding bikes who just don't have their saddle adjusted high enough for their physique -- they just think it's comfortable and efficient. It might be worth checking your "fit" with a reputable bike shop, or boning up on this on the internet at least, which is free. Sheldon's advice on saddle height was, as usual, very practical: to start raising it in small increments until you can't pedal without rocking your hips, and then lower it just a bit. That's exactly what I've always done -- chacun à son goût since we're speaking French.
The reason that a modern (Shimano 105) rear derailleur works is because the bike was fitted with an old-style bolt-on hanger, with the original Simplex hanger apparently untouched beneath it. If that works well enough, no problem.
I think that those Avocet slick tires may be Fasgrip Criterium K20s, though it's too hard to read the label clearly. I had a pair of those back in the 80s, and loved riding them; wish they'd never gone away. Those are a real bonus IMO.
You could easily spend your desired $500 budget on a repaint and reproduction decals, and I don't think that the finish is anywhere near bad enough to require that; but it's your bike, so no foul if you feel like going that way. Plenty of people do, though usually with a frame that looks a lot worse to begin with.
As pointed out, you already have a cartridge-bearing bottom bracket on there. I can't really tell whether a bottom bracket is shot without removing both crank arms and twirling it by hand; others may have other advice. That's one thing to check (along with the headset, hub and pedal bearings -- but the BB is not going to be serviceable anyway, so it's a go or no go item; you could ride it without ruining anything else until it really goes south, and then just replace it in kind -- easy enough to find.
The only thing about the bike that really sticks in my craw is having one Mafac Racer centerpull brake, and one Universal sidepull. Personally, I'd ditch the sidepull and get another Racer. An advantage of sidepulls is that you can get nice Kool-Stop pads that have an easy toe-in adjustment to prevent squealing on the brakes that have the pad mounting slots facing the rim. Mafacs, with the mounting slots going fore-and-aft, require a bit more ingenuity, such as the special washer with toe-in groove sold by ReneHerseCycles.com -- but you can do the same thing yourself with a file, if you're handy enough. Mafacs have a reputation for squealing, but they're really good brakes. How good a brake one needs on the rear wheel is a valid question -- it's the front that really does the work, and needs to. I basically regard the rear brake as just a sort of safety net.
I have a blue 1974 PX frame, but it's not a PX-10 with the fancy lugs like yours, but a PX-10LE (legère equipe) with plainer lugset. Yours is more special in that respect.
Re how low the saddle is: as noted above, if that really works for you, then the frame is too large. But I see a lot of people riding bikes who just don't have their saddle adjusted high enough for their physique -- they just think it's comfortable and efficient. It might be worth checking your "fit" with a reputable bike shop, or boning up on this on the internet at least, which is free. Sheldon's advice on saddle height was, as usual, very practical: to start raising it in small increments until you can't pedal without rocking your hips, and then lower it just a bit. That's exactly what I've always done -- chacun à son goût since we're speaking French.
Last edited by Charles Wahl; 08-02-20 at 04:31 PM.
08-02-20, 10:07 PM
#32
Junior Member
I've enjoyed this thread. Thank you Danhedonia . The bike's connection to Sheldon Brown is priceless. That melange of parts looks like it would be an effective theft-deterrent.
The FD appears to be shimmed with some cloth bar tape. I fear that might wick some moisture under the band and corrode the seat tube. You probably need to add a 0.6 mm shim to the clamp. A 12" x 12" of aluminum in the desired thickness can be had for about $10 here (link). You can cut the FD shims from the sheet with tin snips or probably scissors.
One thing no one has advised him on yet (though I may have missed it) is the special crank puller he is going to need to remove those Stronglight cranks (if you are going to do the work yourself). J.A Stein continues to manufacture suitable ones (link). There may be a hack to do it without the special puller, but I'm not aware of the method.
Re: Squealing MAFAC brakes. They'll save you a little money as you won't need to buy a vintage retro-bell. But you'll terrify everyone you come upon on the path. Just tell them the brakes are French.
The FD appears to be shimmed with some cloth bar tape. I fear that might wick some moisture under the band and corrode the seat tube. You probably need to add a 0.6 mm shim to the clamp. A 12" x 12" of aluminum in the desired thickness can be had for about $10 here (link). You can cut the FD shims from the sheet with tin snips or probably scissors.
One thing no one has advised him on yet (though I may have missed it) is the special crank puller he is going to need to remove those Stronglight cranks (if you are going to do the work yourself). J.A Stein continues to manufacture suitable ones (link). There may be a hack to do it without the special puller, but I'm not aware of the method.
Re: Squealing MAFAC brakes. They'll save you a little money as you won't need to buy a vintage retro-bell. But you'll terrify everyone you come upon on the path. Just tell them the brakes are French.
08-02-20, 10:37 PM
#33
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I am very grateful to the people who have posted. Much of the detailed remarks sail over my head.
First, please accept that I will NEVER do the mechanical work myself. There are things going on in my life that make it impossible for me to learn enough to do it justice. And I want to get it done sooner rather than later.
Saddle was never ridden at that height (gack!). No idea what happened there. More on the "Frankenstein's dog's breakfast" later.
Consensus seems to be that touch up is vastly preferable to repainting. And my Dad agreed. "I loved that blue." I HATE the reflective tape, the rust worries me, and my sentiment is all about where the frame went and with whom. Would it still be sacriligeous to have the paint matched and - shall we say - restored?
Re: all the random pieces / doggie barf ... I also have two boxes of NOS "stuff" that I got with the bike. Sew up tires still in cellophane ... anyone want them? Free to good home! But there are still some decent parts in the mess. The original shifters are in there, I think. (and yeah, the front shifter that fell off, I believe). Should I be posting pics of the box contents? LOL. It's suuuuuuuuuuuch junk, but some of it may be glorious junk.
As far as brakes squealing, I hate using brakes anyhow. They're for when the ride is over and time to get off the bike. I'm lucky that I ride a MUP that is 33 miles and only one stop - and with ABQ vistas, I can time that stop with the light from a quarter mile away. Brakes? We don't need no stinking brakes! (OK, I'm only half that crazy; I mean I don't care if the brakes squeal).
I guess step 1 is the tear down and touch up of the frame?
Are you guys really going to be willing to stay with this thread? I'm thinking this is going to take some time.
First, please accept that I will NEVER do the mechanical work myself. There are things going on in my life that make it impossible for me to learn enough to do it justice. And I want to get it done sooner rather than later.
Saddle was never ridden at that height (gack!). No idea what happened there. More on the "Frankenstein's dog's breakfast" later.
Consensus seems to be that touch up is vastly preferable to repainting. And my Dad agreed. "I loved that blue." I HATE the reflective tape, the rust worries me, and my sentiment is all about where the frame went and with whom. Would it still be sacriligeous to have the paint matched and - shall we say - restored?
Re: all the random pieces / doggie barf ... I also have two boxes of NOS "stuff" that I got with the bike. Sew up tires still in cellophane ... anyone want them? Free to good home! But there are still some decent parts in the mess. The original shifters are in there, I think. (and yeah, the front shifter that fell off, I believe). Should I be posting pics of the box contents? LOL. It's suuuuuuuuuuuch junk, but some of it may be glorious junk.
As far as brakes squealing, I hate using brakes anyhow. They're for when the ride is over and time to get off the bike. I'm lucky that I ride a MUP that is 33 miles and only one stop - and with ABQ vistas, I can time that stop with the light from a quarter mile away. Brakes? We don't need no stinking brakes! (OK, I'm only half that crazy; I mean I don't care if the brakes squeal).
I guess step 1 is the tear down and touch up of the frame?
Are you guys really going to be willing to stay with this thread? I'm thinking this is going to take some time.
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08-02-20, 11:36 PM
#34
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I am very grateful to the people who have posted. Much of the detailed remarks sail over my head.
First, please accept that I will NEVER do the mechanical work myself. There are things going on in my life that make it impossible for me to learn enough to do it justice. And I want to get it done sooner rather than later.
Saddle was never ridden at that height (gack!). No idea what happened there. More on the "Frankenstein's dog's breakfast" later.
Consensus seems to be that touch up is vastly preferable to repainting. And my Dad agreed. "I loved that blue." I HATE the reflective tape, the rust worries me, and my sentiment is all about where the frame went and with whom. Would it still be sacriligeous to have the paint matched and - shall we say - restored?
Re: all the random pieces / doggie barf ... I also have two boxes of NOS "stuff" that I got with the bike. Sew up tires still in cellophane ... anyone want them? Free to good home! But there are still some decent parts in the mess. The original shifters are in there, I think. (and yeah, the front shifter that fell off, I believe). Should I be posting pics of the box contents? LOL. It's suuuuuuuuuuuch junk, but some of it may be glorious junk.
As far as brakes squealing, I hate using brakes anyhow. They're for when the ride is over and time to get off the bike. I'm lucky that I ride a MUP that is 33 miles and only one stop - and with ABQ vistas, I can time that stop with the light from a quarter mile away. Brakes? We don't need no stinking brakes! (OK, I'm only half that crazy; I mean I don't care if the brakes squeal).
I guess step 1 is the tear down and touch up of the frame?
Are you guys really going to be willing to stay with this thread? I'm thinking this is going to take some time.
First, please accept that I will NEVER do the mechanical work myself. There are things going on in my life that make it impossible for me to learn enough to do it justice. And I want to get it done sooner rather than later.
Saddle was never ridden at that height (gack!). No idea what happened there. More on the "Frankenstein's dog's breakfast" later.
Consensus seems to be that touch up is vastly preferable to repainting. And my Dad agreed. "I loved that blue." I HATE the reflective tape, the rust worries me, and my sentiment is all about where the frame went and with whom. Would it still be sacriligeous to have the paint matched and - shall we say - restored?
Re: all the random pieces / doggie barf ... I also have two boxes of NOS "stuff" that I got with the bike. Sew up tires still in cellophane ... anyone want them? Free to good home! But there are still some decent parts in the mess. The original shifters are in there, I think. (and yeah, the front shifter that fell off, I believe). Should I be posting pics of the box contents? LOL. It's suuuuuuuuuuuch junk, but some of it may be glorious junk.
As far as brakes squealing, I hate using brakes anyhow. They're for when the ride is over and time to get off the bike. I'm lucky that I ride a MUP that is 33 miles and only one stop - and with ABQ vistas, I can time that stop with the light from a quarter mile away. Brakes? We don't need no stinking brakes! (OK, I'm only half that crazy; I mean I don't care if the brakes squeal).
I guess step 1 is the tear down and touch up of the frame?
Are you guys really going to be willing to stay with this thread? I'm thinking this is going to take some time.
New paint is a money pit and the build to go with it will be more so, that being said, your wallet being up to it and no way your doing any of it yourself, full speed ahead.
But again, its only original once. The reflective tape is a pain but can be dealt with. The rust shouldn't be life threatening, if you get it stripped down and it is then you'll know, if not it can be neutralized, you can repaint or not and move forward.
Going with a reasonable leave it original refurb will be the least costly, painful and easiest if you can find someone to help you go that route.
If the painter is a bike guy maybe he can help, if not maybe he can point you in the right direction.
08-03-20, 12:23 AM
#35
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I have just done a 4 hour rabbit hole on Sheldon Brown's site. I grew up in Lincoln, MA, riding French bicycles. Without being overly sentimental, it is clear that our lives overlapped enormously (I related strongly to his stories of Harvard Square, a place where I lived a huge chunk of life before being moved out along with the other intellectual trash in the Great Rent Control Repeal of 1995, may the Realtors Association of Massachusetts forever burn in Cambridgeport or Davis Square or whatever other trendy hell they've concoted).
Sheldon was, apparently, a wonderful person. This was clearly lost on me, and I can firmly assert that on 8/28/04 (the date on the Harris Cyclery receipt) I was pretty much a jerk. I wish I'd been able to appreciate him more at the time. Yes, you guys are right: him having worked on it adds to the sentimentality of the bike.
His journal made me nostalgic for the Boston of better times: when nerds, professors, strippers, prep school twits and artist-bartenders crowded into old colonial buildings with terrible plumbing and scowling neighbors. As a kid, I rode 25, 35, 50 mile rides around Lincoln, Concord, Carlisle, Harvard, Groton ... the same places that he took photos were the backdrop for the first several decades of my life.
The "license" on the bike is from the Town of Concord. In their infinite wisdom, the fine folk in charge of that (forever uptight and never as cool as Lincoln) burgh decided in the 70's that you couldn't simply ride a bicycle down the street: you had to be licensed. Real cops would give you a real ticket if you weren't, and true to Concord's core value of plutocracy, the license was $25 (no small sum in the 70's).
That Peugot has been ridden over almost ever road in Middlesex County, many times. When the bike is once again able to be ridden, I think I'll ship it to Boston and ride it there, over the same roads and past the same fields. I am sure that the newly arrived habitants (one of whom leveled my father's lovely former home in the Estabrook woods to erect a monument to poor taste and ego) will lean on the horns of their $85,000 SUV's and try to push me off the road. Let them.
I'd love to get the Brown family to come with me.
Sheldon was, apparently, a wonderful person. This was clearly lost on me, and I can firmly assert that on 8/28/04 (the date on the Harris Cyclery receipt) I was pretty much a jerk. I wish I'd been able to appreciate him more at the time. Yes, you guys are right: him having worked on it adds to the sentimentality of the bike.
His journal made me nostalgic for the Boston of better times: when nerds, professors, strippers, prep school twits and artist-bartenders crowded into old colonial buildings with terrible plumbing and scowling neighbors. As a kid, I rode 25, 35, 50 mile rides around Lincoln, Concord, Carlisle, Harvard, Groton ... the same places that he took photos were the backdrop for the first several decades of my life.
The "license" on the bike is from the Town of Concord. In their infinite wisdom, the fine folk in charge of that (forever uptight and never as cool as Lincoln) burgh decided in the 70's that you couldn't simply ride a bicycle down the street: you had to be licensed. Real cops would give you a real ticket if you weren't, and true to Concord's core value of plutocracy, the license was $25 (no small sum in the 70's).
That Peugot has been ridden over almost ever road in Middlesex County, many times. When the bike is once again able to be ridden, I think I'll ship it to Boston and ride it there, over the same roads and past the same fields. I am sure that the newly arrived habitants (one of whom leveled my father's lovely former home in the Estabrook woods to erect a monument to poor taste and ego) will lean on the horns of their $85,000 SUV's and try to push me off the road. Let them.
I'd love to get the Brown family to come with me.
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08-03-20, 01:21 AM
#36
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Shame. But I understand. I had to help my neighbor sunday morning tighten some bolts on a new chair she ordered. She didn't have a $10 socket set. I showed her the one my dad bought me when I was in the fourth grade, over forty years ago...
I don't see much of that in your pics to get riled about. But wd40 and a razor blade should do the trick. Follow up with some rubbing compound and/or 1200 grit wet sanding, and the paint should come back.
I HATE the reflective tape.
08-03-20, 04:48 AM
#37
Full Member
Nice bike! Less common blue PX10, and with the fancier lug style to boot! And great handlebar/stem upgrade to eliminate the "death stem" issue. I hear you don't want to get into the mechanical work yourself. So I'll just suggest spend some time doing the cosmetic/cleaning work yourself, before or after the mechanical work is done: Touch up the rust spots with some rust-remover/stabilizer and then some appropriate touch-up paint (or just clear nail polish); remove the reflective tape (and the license if it bothers you) with some solvent and a non-metallic scraper that won't damage the paint (trial and error on figuring out the best solvent for the particular adhesive used); polish the frame with some Meguiars Ultimate Polish (or similar gentle polish, be careful of the decals); new coat of wax (I prefer Renaissance Wax at least on chrome but lots of options). Maybe polish the crank and some of the alloy parts with Mothers Mag Polish. I don't think these are things a typical bike shop would do anyway, and you'll be very pleased with the results!
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08-03-20, 06:01 AM
#38
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I am emphatically in the camp for neutralizing the rust, smoothing it and touching it up. Once it dries, wax it and it will be happy. This blue PX-10 is a stunning example, actually.
Observations -
1. St. Sheldon was a wonder, and he taught many of us through his writings. His take on French components is a little dated, though - there are lots of metric bits out there now, including new ones, if one searches. Fortunately, you don't need to.
2. Goo-gone is an AMAZINGLY effective adhesive remover that I have used many times to remove stubborn gooey gunk. At my day job I sometimes use Un-Du, which is really a library product, to remove similarly nasty adhesives. Either would work.
3. Evapo-Rust has been my friend for a few years now. Don't sweat it too much - Peugeot used an anti-rust treatment on their frames, hence the "Inoxydable" sticker on them. Compare it to a comparable Allegro and you'll see the difference.
4. Quick-Glo chrome cleaner is non-toxic and exactly what your forks and stays are waiting for. You will be delighted by the results.
5. Rather than cloth bar tape, see if you can score a thin enough rubber shim like those used for assorted clamp-on lights and other fittings. I used some of those for bottle clamps, and their beauty is they don't trap water like cloth will.
Beautiful bike and an awesome story!
Observations -
1. St. Sheldon was a wonder, and he taught many of us through his writings. His take on French components is a little dated, though - there are lots of metric bits out there now, including new ones, if one searches. Fortunately, you don't need to.
2. Goo-gone is an AMAZINGLY effective adhesive remover that I have used many times to remove stubborn gooey gunk. At my day job I sometimes use Un-Du, which is really a library product, to remove similarly nasty adhesives. Either would work.
3. Evapo-Rust has been my friend for a few years now. Don't sweat it too much - Peugeot used an anti-rust treatment on their frames, hence the "Inoxydable" sticker on them. Compare it to a comparable Allegro and you'll see the difference.
4. Quick-Glo chrome cleaner is non-toxic and exactly what your forks and stays are waiting for. You will be delighted by the results.
5. Rather than cloth bar tape, see if you can score a thin enough rubber shim like those used for assorted clamp-on lights and other fittings. I used some of those for bottle clamps, and their beauty is they don't trap water like cloth will.
Beautiful bike and an awesome story!
08-03-20, 07:43 AM
#39
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Many of us love the PX-10. The Sheldon Brown connection is very cool. If you lived near me, I'd come over, Covid Style, and look over your bike and offer assistance. Your parts box likely has most of what we need to get it riding as nicely as any PX-10. The brake arrangement is interesting. Was Sheldon going Campy Style with a "weaker" brake in the rear? In what part of the world do you live. I am currently without a project. I would take those Tubulars off your hands and find another PX-10. I miss mine.
Pictures of the box's contents would be great.
Pictures of the box's contents would be great.
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I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
08-03-20, 07:46 AM
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Regarding your box, there's a whole sub-culture here in C&V surrounding the "box o'crap" phenomenon.
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08-03-20, 10:53 AM
#41
Senior Member
FYI a good mechanic can easily make those brakes not squeal. Personally I'd be inclined to reuse the original pad holders if they are still in your box of parts, and install new Koolstop black Mafac replacement inserts. If the original holders are gone, then go with koolstop cross pads or something. IMO there's no point in the all red/salmon pads unless you ride in the rain a lot.
That rear brake caliper is a Universal Super 68. It's period correct, and these predated Campagnolo sidepulls. So it isn't fair to call it a campy copy etc. It may have been put on a long time ago. Saves a bit of weight, and equalizes apparent brake pressure.
If you aren't going to do the work yourself, the biggest decision you will have to make is who to take it to. Back to Harris?
While I favor touch up and clean up, it is tedious. Tip, warming old stickers with a hair dryer will help lift them. Be careful not to bubble the paint. If you do decide to repaint, there are good decals available. I got mine from Cyclomondo.
That rear brake caliper is a Universal Super 68. It's period correct, and these predated Campagnolo sidepulls. So it isn't fair to call it a campy copy etc. It may have been put on a long time ago. Saves a bit of weight, and equalizes apparent brake pressure.
If you aren't going to do the work yourself, the biggest decision you will have to make is who to take it to. Back to Harris?
While I favor touch up and clean up, it is tedious. Tip, warming old stickers with a hair dryer will help lift them. Be careful not to bubble the paint. If you do decide to repaint, there are good decals available. I got mine from Cyclomondo.
08-03-20, 05:09 PM
#42
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A few thoughts.
1) Regarding repaint vs. don't repaint: I am a charter member of the "it's your bike, do what want" party. I have had a number of classic old top-shelf frames repainted, There are precious few instances, in my book, when I believe a frame absolutely should not be repainted. Yours is one of them. Why? Because tof the combination of (a) the paint appears to be in pretty good shape, especially for the age of the bike, and, most importantly, (b) it was your dad's bike. If the paint was in truly bad condition, I'd say repaint to preserve the frame. If it was not your dad's bike, I'd say do what you want. But that is not the case here. So I say, preserve the memory.
2) Others have pretty well covered the particulars regarding parts, but it sure looks to me that all the hard practical issues were taken care of by Sheldon. I am no kind of fan of working on French bikes, mainly because of the threading standard issues, but what needs to be done with this one is basic and simple enough that threading issues should be non-existent, I'd say, replace the consumables (cables, tires if needed, bar tape), clean and repack the hubs and bottom bracket bearings (unless they are sealed bearing units, then there's no need) and ride it. Ride it a good amount so you get to know it and see how you like it. If you do like it, then you can start thinking about upgraded or replacement parts. (I'm not sure it needs any.) But if you are not wild about how it rides, you can leave it as is as monument to your father, and you have not invested a lot.
3) Someone mentioned Quick-Glo chrome cleaner. That stuff is fantastic. It's just what your chrome is looking for. It works great on brass head badges, too, but that's another story.
Welcome to the forum, and thanks for posting about this bike. It's a great st
1) Regarding repaint vs. don't repaint: I am a charter member of the "it's your bike, do what want" party. I have had a number of classic old top-shelf frames repainted, There are precious few instances, in my book, when I believe a frame absolutely should not be repainted. Yours is one of them. Why? Because tof the combination of (a) the paint appears to be in pretty good shape, especially for the age of the bike, and, most importantly, (b) it was your dad's bike. If the paint was in truly bad condition, I'd say repaint to preserve the frame. If it was not your dad's bike, I'd say do what you want. But that is not the case here. So I say, preserve the memory.
2) Others have pretty well covered the particulars regarding parts, but it sure looks to me that all the hard practical issues were taken care of by Sheldon. I am no kind of fan of working on French bikes, mainly because of the threading standard issues, but what needs to be done with this one is basic and simple enough that threading issues should be non-existent, I'd say, replace the consumables (cables, tires if needed, bar tape), clean and repack the hubs and bottom bracket bearings (unless they are sealed bearing units, then there's no need) and ride it. Ride it a good amount so you get to know it and see how you like it. If you do like it, then you can start thinking about upgraded or replacement parts. (I'm not sure it needs any.) But if you are not wild about how it rides, you can leave it as is as monument to your father, and you have not invested a lot.
3) Someone mentioned Quick-Glo chrome cleaner. That stuff is fantastic. It's just what your chrome is looking for. It works great on brass head badges, too, but that's another story.
Welcome to the forum, and thanks for posting about this bike. It's a great st
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"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
08-03-20, 08:54 PM
#43
Disraeli Gears
ory!
08-06-20, 08:53 AM
#44
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Update: Again, much gratitude. Without this forum, that bike would likely not have any kind of future.
My plan: Take a year, and get it roadworthy. Keep updating this thread. I will try to message a couple of people here who seem willing to help, to see if I can get some guidance.
Step One: Break it down to the frame-only, and clean up / rehab the frame. (Father has weighed in: he also liked that blue, so even if repainted it will be repainted as a pro/computerized match of the original color). If anyone is willing to help please keep following. I will be learning as I go along.
Which mechanic? Not Harris. I live in New Mexico now. As luck would have it, a few houses away is a retired person who runs a cyclery out of his garage, he has been to a fancy bike mechanic school, and he has 60's era TdF posters (from France) on the walls. He is interested in doing the work - we agreed that this winter will be better once COVID-related business has died down (he is very busy). So: a good start. There are also other good mechanics in Albuquerque if that does not work. New Mexico is, thankfully, "weird project friendly."
Goal: Hope father is still with us next Spring. Ship bike to Maine (where he lives and currently rides a Bianchi beach cruiser in his late 80's). Ride the bike with him. Maybe give bike to niece, who is low-level pro-am triathlete and - wait for it - lives not far from Harris in the Boston area. Her fiancee's brother is a pro rider (athletic family) and they will 'get' the bike's special history. Or maybe just keep it, and ride it up through Taos and Questa now and again.
Qualifier: There are reasons I am not wanting to learn to do the mech work; I do not like asking strangers for sympathy (as I learned in life that everyone has struggles), but suffice to say now is not the time in my life to get up a learning curve on something that is this sentimentally valuable to me. I wouldn't mind learning by hacking apart my Novarra Trionfo (noble steed!), but I want to get this done reach the above goal, and just don't have the free time in life right now for trial-and-error.
So, onwards ....
My plan: Take a year, and get it roadworthy. Keep updating this thread. I will try to message a couple of people here who seem willing to help, to see if I can get some guidance.
Step One: Break it down to the frame-only, and clean up / rehab the frame. (Father has weighed in: he also liked that blue, so even if repainted it will be repainted as a pro/computerized match of the original color). If anyone is willing to help please keep following. I will be learning as I go along.
Which mechanic? Not Harris. I live in New Mexico now. As luck would have it, a few houses away is a retired person who runs a cyclery out of his garage, he has been to a fancy bike mechanic school, and he has 60's era TdF posters (from France) on the walls. He is interested in doing the work - we agreed that this winter will be better once COVID-related business has died down (he is very busy). So: a good start. There are also other good mechanics in Albuquerque if that does not work. New Mexico is, thankfully, "weird project friendly."
Goal: Hope father is still with us next Spring. Ship bike to Maine (where he lives and currently rides a Bianchi beach cruiser in his late 80's). Ride the bike with him. Maybe give bike to niece, who is low-level pro-am triathlete and - wait for it - lives not far from Harris in the Boston area. Her fiancee's brother is a pro rider (athletic family) and they will 'get' the bike's special history. Or maybe just keep it, and ride it up through Taos and Questa now and again.
Qualifier: There are reasons I am not wanting to learn to do the mech work; I do not like asking strangers for sympathy (as I learned in life that everyone has struggles), but suffice to say now is not the time in my life to get up a learning curve on something that is this sentimentally valuable to me. I wouldn't mind learning by hacking apart my Novarra Trionfo (noble steed!), but I want to get this done reach the above goal, and just don't have the free time in life right now for trial-and-error.
So, onwards ....
08-06-20, 09:18 AM
#45
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If you plan on riding this bike in the mountains of New Mexico or, for that matter, in Maine, which has some serious climbing as well, I'd give some thought to the gearing.
For the crank, you have two straightforward options:
(1) That's a stronglight 93 with a 122 bcd crank. It's beautiful crank. It's also a racing crank. The smallest you can go on the inside is 37 teeth. You can buy the chainrings here. 122 BCD Conventional Chainring, 37 Teeth
(2) Also easy peasy is buying a stronglight 99 crank. It is an 86 bcd crank and can go as small as 28 on the inside. Chainrings are available via SPA cycles in the UK or eBay. You could run for example a 47/32. This should work with your existing bottom bracket.
Somewhat more complicated would be setting this up with a triple. With a triplizer you can keep the existing crank:
122 BCD Triplizer, 42 Teeth
This will require a longer spindle for the bottom bracket or a new bottom bracket. Plus you may well need a different rear derailleur to handle all of this work.
Personally I'd go with the stronglight 99 and get as large a freewheel as your rear derailleur can handle. This will be the most cost effective solution. You can run 47/32 up front and likely a 14-28 in the rear. That will give you good climbing gears.
You do a fair amount of riding so you know what you need. If you can climb the local mountains in smaller gears than this, then keep the existing crank.
For the crank, you have two straightforward options:
(1) That's a stronglight 93 with a 122 bcd crank. It's beautiful crank. It's also a racing crank. The smallest you can go on the inside is 37 teeth. You can buy the chainrings here. 122 BCD Conventional Chainring, 37 Teeth
(2) Also easy peasy is buying a stronglight 99 crank. It is an 86 bcd crank and can go as small as 28 on the inside. Chainrings are available via SPA cycles in the UK or eBay. You could run for example a 47/32. This should work with your existing bottom bracket.
Somewhat more complicated would be setting this up with a triple. With a triplizer you can keep the existing crank:
122 BCD Triplizer, 42 Teeth
This will require a longer spindle for the bottom bracket or a new bottom bracket. Plus you may well need a different rear derailleur to handle all of this work.
Personally I'd go with the stronglight 99 and get as large a freewheel as your rear derailleur can handle. This will be the most cost effective solution. You can run 47/32 up front and likely a 14-28 in the rear. That will give you good climbing gears.
You do a fair amount of riding so you know what you need. If you can climb the local mountains in smaller gears than this, then keep the existing crank.
Last edited by bikemig; 08-06-20 at 10:34 AM.
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08-06-20, 09:55 AM
#46
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So, Step One: breaking it down to the frame. My intentions:
* Remove wheels
* Remove brakes
* Remove F/R derailleurs
* Remove BB/cranks
* Use Goo Gone and Eva-Po Rust (ordered) to clean up frame
Step Two will be: rehabbing frame (touch up, chrome work, etc.)
Questions I have:
1. When I remove the brakes & derailleurs, should I just clip/cut the cables, as they will be replaced anyhow? I'd try to loosen anchor bolts first, but if they are rusty, or otherwise challenging, is there a reason to not just cut cables?
2. I've never removed a bottom bracket, and the Peugeot's looks different from my modern bikes' BBs. Should I ask the mechanic to do this? (He is quite kind about spot-work, and I live close by).
3. Am I forgetting anything?
* Remove wheels
* Remove brakes
* Remove F/R derailleurs
* Remove BB/cranks
* Use Goo Gone and Eva-Po Rust (ordered) to clean up frame
Step Two will be: rehabbing frame (touch up, chrome work, etc.)
Questions I have:
1. When I remove the brakes & derailleurs, should I just clip/cut the cables, as they will be replaced anyhow? I'd try to loosen anchor bolts first, but if they are rusty, or otherwise challenging, is there a reason to not just cut cables?
2. I've never removed a bottom bracket, and the Peugeot's looks different from my modern bikes' BBs. Should I ask the mechanic to do this? (He is quite kind about spot-work, and I live close by).
3. Am I forgetting anything?
08-06-20, 10:06 AM
#47
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I avoid strenuous climbs due to personal laziness and medical issues. I have a personal ethos that if I cannot make it up a hill on the bike, then I will get off my fat ass and walk it up as it serves me right. And if I cannot do that and still smile, then I will turn around and enjoy the descent.
The crank will stay. (Or at least until my first real ride when I bonk and good sense immediately dismantles my faux-hardass stance).
Planned ride in Maine: Schoodic Peninsula. 12 miles, flat.
bikemig Thanks very much for your post. At the moment, I'm leaning towards using stuff that's a) really nice; and b) is period-correct.
The crank will stay. (Or at least until my first real ride when I bonk and good sense immediately dismantles my faux-hardass stance).
Planned ride in Maine: Schoodic Peninsula. 12 miles, flat.
bikemig Thanks very much for your post. At the moment, I'm leaning towards using stuff that's a) really nice; and b) is period-correct.
08-06-20, 10:20 AM
#48
Senior Member
Thanks for the update. The local old time mechanic sounds perfect. Keep us posted on the project.
I agree on keeping the original crankset. A Stronglight 93 is part of what makes a PX10 a PX10. I do however agree with bikemig that replacing the inner chainring with a 37 from redclover is worth consideration. Taking advantage of the vintage cranks' wide range capability will make it a practical rider.
Your plan sounds good. I'd normally cut old mangled cables just past the housing ends and pull them out. I guess you could cut the housing but there's no point and it won't make things easier.
Using a modern sealed BB with a 93 crank is a good idea, because the cranks are rather soft and don't like to be regularly taken on and off for maintenance. I'd bet that one is fine.
I don't know if it's been mentioned yet on this thread, but that Stronglight crank requires a special proprietary Stronglight 23.35 mm crank puller. A regular one will not work. An old Park 'French' one will not work. Stein tools sells the correct puller if the old mech doesn't have one.
I agree on keeping the original crankset. A Stronglight 93 is part of what makes a PX10 a PX10. I do however agree with bikemig that replacing the inner chainring with a 37 from redclover is worth consideration. Taking advantage of the vintage cranks' wide range capability will make it a practical rider.
Your plan sounds good. I'd normally cut old mangled cables just past the housing ends and pull them out. I guess you could cut the housing but there's no point and it won't make things easier.
Using a modern sealed BB with a 93 crank is a good idea, because the cranks are rather soft and don't like to be regularly taken on and off for maintenance. I'd bet that one is fine.
I don't know if it's been mentioned yet on this thread, but that Stronglight crank requires a special proprietary Stronglight 23.35 mm crank puller. A regular one will not work. An old Park 'French' one will not work. Stein tools sells the correct puller if the old mech doesn't have one.
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08-06-20, 03:52 PM
#49
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So, Step One: breaking it down to the frame. My intentions:
* Remove wheels
* Remove brakes
* Remove F/R derailleurs
* Remove BB/cranks
* Use Goo Gone and Eva-Po Rust (ordered) to clean up frame
Step Two will be: rehabbing frame (touch up, chrome work, etc.)
Questions I have:
1. When I remove the brakes & derailleurs, should I just clip/cut the cables, as they will be replaced anyhow? I'd try to loosen anchor bolts first, but if they are rusty, or otherwise challenging, is there a reason to not just cut cables?
2. I've never removed a bottom bracket, and the Peugeot's looks different from my modern bikes' BBs. Should I ask the mechanic to do this? (He is quite kind about spot-work, and I live close by).
3. Am I forgetting anything?
* Remove wheels
* Remove brakes
* Remove F/R derailleurs
* Remove BB/cranks
* Use Goo Gone and Eva-Po Rust (ordered) to clean up frame
Step Two will be: rehabbing frame (touch up, chrome work, etc.)
Questions I have:
1. When I remove the brakes & derailleurs, should I just clip/cut the cables, as they will be replaced anyhow? I'd try to loosen anchor bolts first, but if they are rusty, or otherwise challenging, is there a reason to not just cut cables?
2. I've never removed a bottom bracket, and the Peugeot's looks different from my modern bikes' BBs. Should I ask the mechanic to do this? (He is quite kind about spot-work, and I live close by).
3. Am I forgetting anything?
You can cut the cables but I always try to save them, especially the casing which can maybe be partly used again or as a pattern.
I would dribble some WD-40 or penetrant carefully on all the bolts to soak so they will come apart easily and not be damaged or break later, some of them can be hard to find.
The BB should be done straight away if it is not good at all, the oldscool guy should be up for it and I would get it apart to see its exact condition post haste in case it needs parts or replacing.
08-06-20, 04:22 PM
#50
Disraeli Gears
For disassembly, you need at a minimum a set of metric combination (open and closed head on one shaft) wrenches from, say, 6 to 17 mm, and a set of metric hex keys. Assuming that you have normal tools like blade and phillips screwdrivers, hammer, adjustable wrenches in a couple sizes. You won't be able to remove the bottom bracket without a special tool that's like a large-ish 3/8" drive socket with splines on the exterior rim; the Park Tool BBT-22 seems to fit most of them, assuming it's a standard-issue cartridge-bearing type. Unlike the standard cup/spindle/ball bottom bracket, where the drive-side fixed cup is very (or even insanely) tight, these should not be.
Note that the drive-side cup of the BB will be right-hand threaded, just like the non-drive-side one (counter-clockwise to loosen) one of those French & Italian aberrations, but the left-hand pedal is a left-hand thread, for which you'll probably need a 15 mm (rarely 14 mm) open-end wrench, unless an adjustable (Crescent type) will fit the flats. And expect the pedal axles to be very tight.
I think that your rear wheel has a "freewheel" rather than a "freehub" (look up the difference on SheldonBrown.com), but there's a specialty tool required to remove the cogset too -- only I can't tell you which one because there are a lot of different standards -- need to remove the wheel first and show us what it looks like in some detail.
Note that the drive-side cup of the BB will be right-hand threaded, just like the non-drive-side one (counter-clockwise to loosen) one of those French & Italian aberrations, but the left-hand pedal is a left-hand thread, for which you'll probably need a 15 mm (rarely 14 mm) open-end wrench, unless an adjustable (Crescent type) will fit the flats. And expect the pedal axles to be very tight.
I think that your rear wheel has a "freewheel" rather than a "freehub" (look up the difference on SheldonBrown.com), but there's a specialty tool required to remove the cogset too -- only I can't tell you which one because there are a lot of different standards -- need to remove the wheel first and show us what it looks like in some detail.
