PhoenixBiker 

Both my road bikes have custom "Cyclotouriste" cassettes made 15-16 years ago by Sheldon Brown at Harris Cyclery. According to Harris' website, the store no longer carries that cassette. I'd like to build another one for a wheelset I just purchased, but I have no earthly idea which mix-and-match of Shimano cassette components it would take to pull it off.

The cogs are 13-15-17-19-21-24-27-30-34. Does anyone know sources for individual Shimano cogs that could be used to build the cassette? If not, is there a way to mix and match parts of other cassettes to create that arrangement? Thanks in advance for your advice!

blamester

itt's straight forward enough. Go to shimano tech docs which list the cassettes and the individual ratios in the breakdown. I am assuming it is a Shimano freehub or compatible.If it's another brand there must be similar way of doing it.
Your probably best getting cassette which can be separated down to individual cogs. They are either riveted or bolted but easily separated.
Pick the ccassetter which closet matches your current and then figure out which ones you can remove or which two you need to get to make the one you need.
You could use a cassette which uses a carrier for instance some are 17/19 and 21/24/27 or similar and add the the thirty and thirty four behind those.
There are individual cogs available from some websites i think miche are available but not sure which size.
THere may also be a mountain cassette which is close.
I never had any trouble mixing ten and 9 speed cogs so long as the spacers where all 9 or 10 speed.

CliffordK

The biggest issue with the Hyperglide cassettes that most of the new cassettes (and freewheels) are related to is that they are designed for successive sprockets. So mixing and matching is potentially problematic. I'd encourage doing as few "breaks" as possible. Best if you could find 2 cassettes to combine to make one with a single break in the middle.

You can adjust your chainring sizes so that you don't need a 13T high gear. Smaller chainrings and use a 11T?

However, if I was going to build the cassette, I'd probably....

It may be cheaper/easier to buy full cassettes and use the parts you want. You could potentially resell unused parts, especially common wear parts like an 11T or 12T sprocket.

I'd probably hunt for say a 11/24 cassette, plus a 27, 30, 34 carrier, plus a 13T first ring.

For Shimano cassettes, you can use the cassette model followed by "PDF" to get the full specs on that cassette.

Ok, searching:It looks like Sheldon Brown has some of those links on this page:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k9.shtml

Ok, so now looking at options.

HG400 has 11-34 & 12-36 cassettes. Slightly different sprocket distributions than you're looking for, but straight off the shelf.

For mixing and matching:

Goal: 13-15-17-19-21-24-27-30-34

HG50, 11-25 (11,12,13,15,17,19,21,23,25)
HG400, 11-34 (11,13,15,17,20,23,26,30,34)
Various, Buy loose 13T with spacer.

So, you could use:
13T with spacer (whichever you choose)
15, 17, 19, 21, 23 (from HG50)
26, 30, 34 (from HG400)

Result: (13,15,17,19,21,23,26,30,34)

It would seem like a lot of work to get rid of that 11T on the HG400.

PhoenixBiker 

Thanks for your help! I see how to do it; now it's a matter of spending the money and turning the wrench.

Thanks again!

CliffordK

If you hunt, you may be able to find the stock 9s cassettes for pretty cheap. Maybe $20 to $30 each if you hunt. So, two cassettes plus the 13T sprocket may set you back somewhere around $60, and may be similar to your previous custom cassettes.

I didn't mention before, but Shimano uses two types of combined sprockets.

105/Ultegra/Dura Ace cassettes usually have groups of 2 or 3 sprockets that can not be separated (in general, you could probably do it if you tried). They are riveted onto an aluminum or carbon fiber common carrier which interfaces with your freehub.

Lesser models of cassettes usually have loose small sprockets, and all the larger sprockets are full sized, just riveted together. You can bust apart the rivets, and access individual sprockets. There is no need to put the rivets back in, but make sure you have the cassette good and tight when mounted.

nfmisso

Some more info: Shimano cogs are designed to have 1 or 2 or X difference with the smaller cog next to it. For example, a Shimano has a 14T cog to go next to a 13T cog, and a slightly different 14T cog to go next to a 12T cog. This is to improve the shifting on Hyperglide cassettes. For some people it is critical, for others it is not.

Cheaper cassettes are usually easier to take completely apart, and have stronger steel cogs. Only downside is that they are heavier.

That said; try the HG400-9 12-36 (https://www.amazon.com/CASSETTE-SPRO.../dp/B00LGLYYRM)

it works great on my commuter 1x9 with a 44T USAMade Narrow-Wide chainring, KMC X9.93 chain, SRAM X.7 9 speed long cage.

Here is a Shimano 13T first position: https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-Ulteg.../dp/B001GSKRMG

Now that Niagara seems to be gone, I don't have a source for Miche cogs.....

fietsbob

Down side is .. 9 loose cogs , the cog spline, will dig into the driver spline
as you apply hillclimbing force.
damaging your freehub driver..

and of course the larger cogs are the ones applying the most force ,
climbing ..

Retro Grouch 

Back in the golden days when 10-speed meant 2 on the front and 5 on the back, this made sense to me. Today not so much.

rm -rf

The smallest cog needs to be a "first position" cog, with a knurled surface that holds the lock ring from turning. And it doesn't use a spacer, the spacing is built in.



Charts using Mike Sherman's Gear Calculator. Here's the link to your configuration: Calc link. It pops up a message saying the URL has the settings, so you can bookmark that page.
I used a couple of example chainrings from a triple, 28 (in red) and 39 (in black). What chainrings do you have?

~~~

Your current 13-34, at typical flat road cadences:
It has 17-19-21-24, then 27 in the middle.



and a stock 11-34:
it has 17-20-23 then 26. This middle has wider shifts so it could add the 11 cog. It's a little harder to get that "just right" cadence, but the jumps between shifts aren't too extreme.


The 11-34 might be good enough.
I'm not sure that it's that big of an improvement if you have to make your own cassette to get 13-34. And the 13 "first position cog" might be hard to find.



My 11-speed 14-32 example.
On my 11- speed, I used a "junior racing cassette" of 14-28 mixed with an 11-32. This gives me close shifts in the 15-25 mph range, for the fast-for-me group rides. And keeps the low gears for climbing hills. It's perfect for me.

However, the junior gears are single tooth difference, 14 15 16 17 18 19 , then the rest is from the 11-34: 20 22 25 28 32. So these make very close shifts. With Di2 electric shifting, it's not a problem, but could be quite annoying with mechanical shifting. Especially when shifting chainrings, I have to shift 4 or 5 cogs instead of 3 cogs with a normal cassette.

I notice a noisy shift when at the switch between the 19 on the junior cog and the 20 of the 11-34 set. The teeth line up differently, without the designed-in alignments. But it shifts fine.

9 speed junior cassette.
There is a HG-50 junior cassette: At Excel Sports
14 15 16 17 18 19 21 23 25.
It appears from the second photo that all the cogs are riveted together, except for the first two. That complicates things. You'd have to drill out the rivets and use part of the stack.

You might find that a 14-34 combo cassette would have shifts too close together, and you'd be shifting two cogs a lot.

rm -rf

The 12-36 was mentioned above. It should fit on the bike and shift fine since you are already using a 34.

Is it a good idea? It partly depends on what chainrings you have, and the speeds and cadences you typically ride.

Your 13-34 chart:
compare the 15 17 19 21 portion to the 12-36 below.


The 12-36 chart:
It has a lower low gear, of course.
14 16 18 21 has a little wider gap between shifts. But it also has a higher top speed for a chainring, using 12 vs 13. Sometimes that's enough to allow you to not need to shift the front.

CliffordK

For Shimano, I believe all 11T and 12T sprockets are "first position" compatible, no matter whether they are actually on the cassette as first or second position. Well, with the exception of the 11T Capreo.

11T and 12T lockrings may be slightly different. Actually, perhaps it is the 11T lockrings that are unique. 12T and larger ones are all the same.

13T and 14T loose sprockets should be available as first position, but you may have to hunt on E-Bay or do special order if you don't buy with the cassette. They generally aren't first position type if originally used in 2nd position.

======

Another question to ask is what kind of shifters do you have on your bicycle? For friction shifting, your freehub should be able to easily support 8, 9, or 10 speed.

You will need a new chain, of course, but should probably change the chain anyway.

It is quite likely you could find a 10s cassette with very similar gearing to the target, but with one additional high range sprocket.

Thus my comment... make sure it is good and tight.

Bill in VA

I would add one caution to research first. I do not believe that this would be an issue going for a larger 12 or 13 cog, but it is a lock ring issue.

Depending on the age of the Shimano freehub, if might not take an 11T sprocket/lockring. On my wifes bike with an 8 speed Sora group and triple crank, she wanted a larger rear granny cog (the bike had a 12-25 cassette). With the Sora deraileur she had and the triple crank, I found you could use a 28 top cog max. Researching the available 8-speed Shimano cassettes the only one I could find was an 11-28. However, her freehub would not take an 11 tooth unless you ground the end of the splines on the freehub.

Looking at her cassette, and the 11-28, I found all the cogs matched except the 11 and the 28. I bought the new cassette and used her oiriginal 12 cog and lock ring. Works great.

The Shimano compatibility guides really helped to identify the possible issues. Even the LBS was 'sure' an 11-28 was a drop in fit.

CliffordK

Oh, excellent point about the 11T? vs 12T freehubs.

The only way to know for sure is to remove the cassette and check. I'm pretty sure 100% of the 11s freehubs are 11T compatible, and 7s freehubs are a mix.

Newer 8/9/10 freehubs would favor the 11T, but I'm not sure if all old ones are compatible.



The 11T freehub is on the left with the splines cut down slightly from the end.

The 12T freehub is on the right with the splines extending to the end without the notch on the end.

All new 12T/13T/14T cassettes will work with either.

Bill in VA

Perfect illustration!!!

Our was the older 8-speed Sora like the right image. Newer 8-speed hubs are like the left image. It is an age of the hub issue. If you have an older bike or get a NOS (new old stock) hubset cheap online, you might have the issue. From what I can remember, her bike is a pre-2005 bike.

The older body splines can br ground or filed, but the metal (steel) is hard.

PhoenixBiker 

These are great responses. Thank you ALL for giving me a good road map to make this happen!

Eggman84

I have done it years ago (and still using the custom cassette). The base cassette I used was a Shimano Ultegra CS-6500 12/27 (12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-27) (see https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...48&category=41).

I then did the following:

1) Remove the 12T cog, which comes with the integrated spacer, and the 14T cog and loose spacer
2) Replace the 13T cog (designed for 1 tooth shift) and loose spacer with a new Shimano 13T cog that has the integrated spacer and designed for 2 tooth change. Get the Shimano XT M760 9sp 13T Cog PN Y1ZA13451 (see https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...&category=1569)
3) Install flat 8/9 speed 30T and 34T Miche cogs. You will need to reuse the spacers you removed earlier with the 13T and 14T cogs. Not sure where you can get these cogs anymore. Maybe that is why Harris Cyclery doesn't do the custom 9 speed cyclotourist models any more.

Since you are only going from a 12T to 13T small cog, you wont need to worry about changing the lockring (its will be large enough). I have been perfectly happy with the 9 speed custom cassettes I have built and used. Good luck.

csport

If I remember correctly, they said custom Harris cassettes were made from Ultegra 6500 and some XT cogs, like Eggman84 said.

Speaking of 11-34 and bigger gaps in the middle, I run a Microshift cassette: https://www.microshift.com/en/product/road-cs-h092/
It is 11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-34. It does not have 3t jumps in the middle like Shimano/SRAM/SunRace would. To me it looks like a no-brainer: take the progression of a 7-speed "M" cassette (13-28), add 11t and you get 8s HG50 11-28. Why not add one more large sprocket to the progression? Shimano has a HG201 in 11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32, but Microshift's one has 34 for even lower gear.

If you are set on building a custom cassette, you can take the mentioned HG201, remove the 11 and 13, add a top position 13 and bottom 36. This will give you a 13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-36 -- a monster touring cassette without major disruptions in the HyperGlide profile. I think the top two cogs of HG201 are loose, so this procedure should work.

CliffordK

A couple of brands are also selling monster sized "escape" rings. So, rather than adding a 34 or 36T, you could go with a 40T or bigger. That is, if you can convince your chain and derailleur to handle it. But, you don't necessarily need to kick it up there very often.

PhoenixBiker 

I appreciate the advice for an "escape" ring or two, but what I'm doing here is attempting to match my existing cassette so I don't have to adjust the derailleur every time I switch wheelsets. I'm planning to run 28c Gatorskin tires on Mavic Open Pros as my standard wheelset for most rides, and 23c Conti GP 4000 tires on Mavic CXPs as my "go-fast" wheelset for rides on smoother pavement.

dsbrantjr

You should expect to need to make small limit and/or indexing adjustments when you swap components, even like for like, due to fab and assembly tolerances.