FlashBazbo

Sometimes, you ask for an "official" answer and you get an answer you don't expect. Here's my situation:

I've got a Vector 2 power meter converted to Shimano 6800 pedal bodies. I'm thinking of getting a Vector 3 power meter for my other bike. I want to use the same cleats for both bikes and figured I was golden. All I would have to do is convert the Vector 2's back to the original pedal bodies and everything's good. Right? I contacted Garmin's customer service chat this morning, just to make sure -- and to see if they had instructions for reversing the Shimano conversion operation. I didn't expect the answers I got . . .

Q1: Are Vector 3 pedals compatible with Look Keo cleats?
Garmin's Answer: It's kind of hit or miss, depending on the customer. [Me: What?!]

Q2: Are Vector 3 cleats compatible with Vector 2 bodies and vice versa?
Garmin's Answer: No. [Me: What?!]

Q3: Never mind. If Vector 2 and Vector 3 cleats aren't compatible with each other, I don't need to reverse the Shimano conversion.

Garmin's website lists the same part number for Vector 2 cleats as for Vector 3 cleats -- and both say they are compatible with Look Keo cleats. So, Garmin's customer service chat expressly contradicts Garmin's website.

So . . . what is it really? If you've got experience with them . . . are Vector 2 and Vector 3 cleats compatible with each other? And are they compatible with Look Keo cleats?

(And, as a bonus question . . . years ago, Keo cleats were famous for developing a horrible creak after a hundred miles or so. The dreaded "Keo Creak." Do they still do that?)

Seattle Forrest

I didn't realize you could convert Vectors.

I've been using V2s for years, always with Keo cleats. Not "compatible" ones, no one stocks Garmin cleats, I buy the gray ones at LBS. Never had an idea with creaking.

Apparently once I forgot to tighten the cleats down in the shoes and two screws came out on a gravel ride. Luckily it wasn't the foot I clip out with. Really bad time. I'm an idiot.

Hope the first part of my reply is at least somewhat helpful.

hagak

I use Look Keo cleats with my Vector 3 pedals without issue. I thought the Vector 2 pedals where Look compatible as well.

Question who did the body conversion and would that not effect the accuracy of the meter?

FlashBazbo

Very helpful. Thanks.

For the Vector 2, Garmin sold a kit that would allow you to convert to Shimano Ultegra 6800 pedal bodies. The kit consisted of all the mechanical and electronic bits that were different between the two versions of the power meter. You had to buy a set of the Shimano pedals and dissect them. You had to dissect the Vector 2s. Then, you assembled the desired mix of components from the original meter, the kit, and the Shimano pedal body. Voila! Shimano pedal-based power meter. Worked perfectly and the meter is dead-on accurate. And I really like the convenience and functionality of having Shimano pedals.

I did my conversion myself. It wasn't quite like deactivating an atomic bomb. If you had any mechanical aptitude, it was reasonably easy. About the only thing you could get wrong -- there was a tiny nut that, if you put too much torque on it (which is to say, not very much torque at all), it would snap the end off a housing inside the meter. I destroyed one that way. Garmin sent me a free parts replacement.

Seattle Forrest

Only 6800, probably not available for SPD right? Keo cleats are awful in mud. I bought the bike to be able to ride dirt roads when the pavement runs out.

FlashBazbo

Yes, only 6800. Not even Dura Ace.

But since you said that about Keo cleats and mud, I may keep these Vector 2's and keep them Shimano. They will reside on my gravel bike. I've thought about trying road pedals on the gravel bike, but haven't done it yet.

Seattle Forrest

Not my pic, but it's the most useful one I could find quickly.

It's the back of the cleat that engages the pedal. There's a small gap between the shoe and this part of the cleat. Clip out and put your foot down for a second in mud - I don't mean like the type that's mostly water and a zombie could pop out of at any minute, I mean almost any mud, and it'll get stuck in that gap, so you can't clip fully in. Stomping your foot on a rock half a dozen times usually clears it. Carrying a small screwdriver or pen or something would make it a lot easier, but who wants to carry extra crap?

Since I've been training with power, I've had two Cervelos and a GT; Cervelo has its own BB standard, that took crank based PMs off the table for me. First bike I used a PM with had caliper brakes, next two had discs, so wheel wasn't ideal either. I didn't want the hassle of selling the PM and buying a new one whenever I changed bikes. So for me, pedals made a lot of sense, I waited for a SPD power meter but nobody ever made one. Anyway, this is a long-winded way of saying I went with Vectors for very specific reasons that almost certainly don't apply to you - so this probably isn't the best solution in your case.



PS - It's not like I think you don't know what they look like, just thought a picture might go with the description.

FlashBazbo

[QUOTE=Seattle Forrest;21175368]I waited for a SPD power meter but nobody ever made one.

It's coming. SRM has announced an SPD pedal-based power meter, allegedly at a more reasonable price than SRM has offered before. Suspicion is that it will be out after the first of the year.

Seattle Forrest

Thanks for the news, @FlashBazbo!

I'm curious what you're going to do in the end. Do you feel like power is important on a gravel bike? I do, personally, but it seems like I have some weird ideas about cycling in general so that might be one of them.

FlashBazbo

I think a power meter is invaluable for training for gravel racing. I wouldn't train without one. But my shortest gravel race, to date, has been 200k. At that distance, and longer, I think heart rate is a lot more important for pacing during the race. And I race in the mid-continent (Kansas, Oklahoma, etc.) -- on hilly courses that lack extended steep climbs. If I raced in the Tennessee mountains (where I live), I would feel differently. A power meter is pretty important on extended climbs.

hagak

6800 pedals are SPD-SL right? If so I do not really see how they could be any better in mud than the Look, both I would think are very bad for mud and gravel riding. In fact if you look at the cleat of a Look and an SPD-SL you might be hard pressed to note the differences. In fact the only difference I noticed between them is the Look cleats use I believe a harder plastic which makes them a bit more slippery on hard surfaces.

FlashBazbo

They're only bad if you put a foot down.