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Opinion requested regarding crankset change and tire change

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Opinion requested regarding crankset change and tire change

Old 10-16-19, 11:34 AM
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genrlz
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Opinion requested regarding crankset change and tire change

Sorry for the long post, looking for some input. I'm new to gravel riding/racing and am contemplating changes to my bike.

I was riding my old tri bike on 25 treaded tires. It has 172.5 cranks with a 53/39 chainring and a 9 speed, 11-23 cassette. On the road with it, I can average 22+. On the gravel, I can average 17.9. Average cadence 80.

I bought a used Felt f65X that has Contintental 33 tires on it. It has 175 cranks with a 46/36 chainring and 11 speed 11/28 cassette. On the road, my best effort was 19.6 mph. On gravel 17. Average cadence 84.

I feel FAST on the tri bike and feel really slow on the gravel bike and not terribly comfortable. I'm thinking of switching it to 172.5 cranks with a 50/34 chainring set.

I also am trying to narrow down a new tire selection between the Override, X'PLOR MSO, Michelin Power Gravel, WTB Riddler and Schwalbe G-One All-around. I'm really leaning towards the Michelin or MSO.

I primarily ride hard pack, pretty smooth dirt roads without any drastic amount of climbing. Any opinions on the crankset swap? I'm tired of feeling like I'm working extra hard, yet going slower.

Thank you

Last edited by genrlz; 10-16-19 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 10-16-19, 04:06 PM
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Both bikes have overlapping gear ratios, the tire difference and crank length difference will affect the speed, but not too sure if its 3mph difference(road).

Get some quality low rolling resistance tires and see if that somehow makes up the difference.

Examples-
53/22 gearing the the same as 46/19.
39/23 gearing is the same as 46/21.

Not sure if a change in crank set gearing will help since you dont seem to need easier gearing that comes with a 34t ring.

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Old 10-16-19, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by genrlz
Sorry for the long post, looking for some input. I'm new to gravel riding/racing and am contemplating changes to my bike.

I was riding my old tri bike on 25 treaded tires. It has 172.5 cranks with a 53/39 chainring and a 9 speed, 11-23 cassette. On the road with it, I can average 22+. On the gravel, I can average 17.9. Average cadence 80.

I bought a used Felt f65X that has Contintental 33 tires on it. It has 175 cranks with a 46/36 chainring and 11 speed 11/28 cassette. On the road, my best effort was 19.6 mph. On gravel 17. Average cadence 84.

I feel FAST on the tri bike and feel really slow on the gravel bike and not terribly comfortable. I'm thinking of switching it to 172.5 cranks with a 50/34 chainring set.

I also am trying to narrow down a new tire selection between the Override, X'PLOR MSO, Michelin Power Gravel, WTB Riddler and Schwalbe G-One All-around. I'm really leaning towards the Michelin or MSO.

I primarily ride hard pack, pretty smooth dirt roads without any drastic amount of climbing. Any opinions on the crankset swap? I'm tired of feeling like I'm working extra hard, yet going slower.

Thank you
Tires are just one more gear. In my Experience, when I went from running 25's to running a 38/40 size tire, dropping from a 50t to a 48t chainring made things a lot more comfortable for my fitness, and what my legs were used too.

I think if you swap to the same crank length, run a slightly smaller chainring, coupled with a slightly larger tire you'll be much happier.

on hard pack dirt/gravel I love the MSO. I found them to be a bit draggy on pavement. but on dirt smooth gravel they fly!

I played with several chainrings / freewheels on my single speed. Contrary to what gear calcs say. I had faster in RL #'s on the according to paper #'s the slower gearing.

46x16 vs 48x17 Paper and calculator says 46x16 is faster than a 48x17, yet on every ride I came home with a higher average speed with the 48x17 combo.

I have yet to ride a 46 chainring on a gravel bike so can't comment. I do know that the 48t chainring on a 40c and 38c tire made things a lot more comparable to a 50T on the road bike.

hint, if you have no real hills. Find your self Praxis 110 BCD 48/36 chainrings. and keep the crank arm length that you are used to spinning. If you find that you will be constantly spinning a higher RPM than average, a shorter crank arm might help also.
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Old 10-17-19, 06:15 AM
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Thank you for the feedback.
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Old 10-17-19, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by genrlz
Sorry for the long post, looking for some input. I'm new to gravel riding/racing and am contemplating changes to my bike.

I was riding my old tri bike on 25 treaded tires. It has 172.5 cranks with a 53/39 chainring and a 9 speed, 11-23 cassette. On the road with it, I can average 22+. On the gravel, I can average 17.9. Average cadence 80.

I bought a used Felt f65X that has Contintental 33 tires on it. It has 175 cranks with a 46/36 chainring and 11 speed 11/28 cassette. On the road, my best effort was 19.6 mph. On gravel 17. Average cadence 84.

I feel FAST on the tri bike and feel really slow on the gravel bike and not terribly comfortable. I'm thinking of switching it to 172.5 cranks with a 50/34 chainring set.

I also am trying to narrow down a new tire selection between the Override, X'PLOR MSO, Michelin Power Gravel, WTB Riddler and Schwalbe G-One All-around. I'm really leaning towards the Michelin or MSO.

I primarily ride hard pack, pretty smooth dirt roads without any drastic amount of climbing. Any opinions on the crankset swap? I'm tired of feeling like I'm working extra hard, yet going slower.

Thank you
This is a tire size and pressure thing. I suspect your 33s are overpressured for your weight.

Buying a new crankset is just throwing money at it. I'll wager a 6-pack of beer that, compensating for saddle height, you could not tell the difference between 172.5 and 175.
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Old 10-17-19, 10:00 AM
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Sounds like you are overthinking it. Crank length for me is mostly based on cadence. I have short cranks for the track (up to 150rpm), and long ones for mountainbike where I am cranking up climbs.

Conti tires tend to have low rolling resistance - but they have all kinds of stuff. Schwalbe has proven low rolling resistance on the G-One line. The others you mention should be good (without hard data).

Yeah, there is a ~2mph pavement difference for me going from racing slicks to fast-ish gravel tires. Size doesn't matter so much, but tread, construction, rubber, protection - lots of stuff can be different. If you want the same speed on the gravel bike - use the same tires (preferably in a larger size) and make sure your positioning on the bike is good. If you don't want light slicks - its gonna slow you down a little bit (not that most people care that much).
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Old 10-17-19, 11:55 AM
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Thank you so much for all the feedback. It's frustrating with the limits on posts for a newbie, taking me time to reply. I weigh 195 and am 6 feet tall. I'm currently running the 33's with 45 psi and they have tubes. Thank you
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Old 10-18-19, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by genrlz
Thank you so much for all the feedback. It's frustrating with the limits on posts for a newbie
Well, ya got 10 posts now, so you should be good to go. ;-)
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Old 10-18-19, 01:27 PM
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Re tires, I have the WTB Riddler on my CX bike and really like them. No experience with the others.
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Old 10-18-19, 02:27 PM
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Thank you. I keep looking at the Michelin Power Gravel the most. I've had really good luck with Michelin in the past on my road bike and of the reviews I can find, they are positive, in that the are fast and long lasting. Although, I've had luck with WTB on my mountain bike too.
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Old 10-18-19, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by genrlz
Thank you. I keep looking at the Michelin Power Gravel the most. I've had really good luck with Michelin in the past on my road bike and of the reviews I can find, they are positive, in that the are fast and long lasting. Although, I've had luck with WTB on my mountain bike too.
fwiw

(I didn't read it & inadequately skimmed it)

Michelin Power Gravel 35mm and 40mm Tires: At The Finish -
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Old 10-19-19, 06:42 PM
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I'm just amazed you ride a tri bike on 25s on gravel. I need to see this "gravel"
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Old 10-19-19, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by shoota
I'm just amazed you ride a tri bike on 25s on gravel. I need to see this "gravel"
It’s typical hard pack dirt roads with scattered loose gravel.
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Old 10-20-19, 01:36 AM
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some of the gravel roads here in Ohio have broken down limestone free of gravel that is often more smooth than the chip n seal roads.
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Old 10-20-19, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by genrlz
It’s typical hard pack dirt roads with scattered loose gravel.
Then put some 28s on that Felt, and set it up as aggressively as you can. Tri bikes are inherently faster due to aerodynamics so it's not a fair comparison.
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Old 10-20-19, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by shoota
Then out some 28s on that Felt, and set it up as aggressively as you can. Tri bikes are inherently faster due to aerodynamics so it's not a fair comparison.
25 is the widest I can fit and it’s very very tight.

It’s quite disappointing to work so much harder on the gravel bike and go slower.
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Old 10-20-19, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by genrlz

I bought a used Felt f65X that has Contintental 33 tires on it.
Originally Posted by genrlz
25 is the widest I can fit and it’s very very tight.
You said you have 33mm tires on the Felt...
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Old 10-20-19, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by shoota
You said you have 33mm tires on the Felt...
Both bikes are Felt. The tri bike will fit a max of 25 tire. The gravel Felt bike currently has continental 33’s.
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Old 10-21-19, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by genrlz
Both bikes are Felt. The tri bike will fit a max of 25 tire. The gravel Felt bike currently has continental 33’s.
Oh I see. But do you understand what I'm saying? Put 28mm road tires on the Felt CX bike.
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Old 10-21-19, 07:48 AM
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Yes, now I get what you're saying. Thanks
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Old 10-21-19, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by shoota
Oh I see. But do you understand what I'm saying? Put 28mm road tires on the Felt CX bike.
yeah, but as fast as JonBon Pass tires are Screw it go the Bon Jons especially if there is room for them.
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Old 10-21-19, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Metieval
some of the gravel roads here in Ohio have broken down limestone free of gravel that is often more smooth than the chip n seal roads.
True that.
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Old 10-21-19, 10:59 AM
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Then put some 28s on that Felt, and set it up as aggressively as you can. Tri bikes are inherently faster due to aerodynamics so it's not a fair comparison.
Oh, I see. You are saying put the 28s on the gravel bike to try to close the gap to the tri bike.
At first it sounded like you wanted 28s on the tri bike because it was more aero and faster, but that's not it.

With the same tires and wheels, my gravel bike is as fast as any bike I have. I rather think that with 32mm slicks it is a bit faster than my more aggressive bikes (with skinnier tires) because it absorbs the road irregularities around here (cracked patched asphalt) much better, allowing my muscles to work more efficiently (as they are not getting shook up so much).

@genrlz For your type of gravel, I use 32mm Conti GP5000s. Less than 1/2 the rolling resistance of something like the Compass tires. I wasn't expecting how fast they are. Not the strongest sidewalls out there - so not great for flinty stuff. But great for that pea gravel over hardpack. The sidewalls in the TL version are a little more tear resistant than the tubed version.

Last edited by chas58; 10-21-19 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 10-21-19, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by chas58
Oh, I see. You are saying put the 28s on the gravel bike to try to close the gap to the tri bike.
At first it sounded like you wanted 28s on the tri bike because it was more aero and faster, but that's not it.

With the same tires and wheels, my gravel bike is as fast as any bike I have. I rather think that with 32mm slicks it is a bit faster than my more aggressive bikes (with skinnier tires) because it absorbs the road irregularities around here (cracked patched asphalt) much better, allowing my muscles to work more efficiently (as they are not getting shook up so much).

@genrlz For your type of gravel, I use 32mm Conti GP5000s. Less than 1/2 the rolling resistance of something like the Compass tires. I wasn't expecting how fast they are. Not the strongest sidewalls out there - so not great for flinty stuff. But great for that pea gravel over hardpack. The sidewalls in the TL version are a little more tear resistant than the tubed version.

Thank you. The tri bike currently has 25mm Conti GP5000s for paved roads. I did use some yellow, Vittoria Zaffiro IV 25's for gravel races with that bike. They are a treaded training tire. Besides being a rough ride, with them at 100 psi, everything was fine. Well, I did spin out on an uphill and lost two finishing places in the one race.

I liked gravel racing so much, was why I bought a true gravel bike. Now the quest to get my speed up/back.

Thank you
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Old 10-22-19, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by genrlz
Thank you. The tri bike currently has 25mm Conti GP5000s for paved roads. I did use some yellow, Vittoria Zaffiro IV 25's for gravel races with that bike. They are a treaded training tire. Besides being a rough ride, with them at 100 psi, everything was fine. Well, I did spin out on an uphill and lost two finishing places in the one race.

I liked gravel racing so much, was why I bought a true gravel bike. Now the quest to get my speed up/back.

Thank you
My Gravel bike has 40mm tires for fun riding (maybe 50 for race paced gravel), and 32mm GP5000s for road duty (or our hardpack summer gravel). With the GP5000, I'm competitive in crits on the bike. I'm thinking you can get there too. I've got a reasonable handlebar drop so I'm fairly aero (not too far off from my track bike).
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