When do you realize you were a retro-grouch?
#126
2-Wheeled Fool
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 2,346
Bikes: Surly Ogre, Brompton
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1385 Post(s)
Liked 677 Times
in
457 Posts
Modern bikes aren't any better than classic bikes, just different. They haven't developed their own songs yet. Modern bikes are like buying all your music through digital downloads. You can carry it all on your phone and take it anywhere. Convenient, surely, however it will never compare to listening to old vinyl on a Linn Sondek turntable, running through a sweet old MacIntosh and a pair of Klipschorns.
Likes For J.Higgins:
#127
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: The Urban Shores Of Michigami
Posts: 1,749
Bikes: ........................................ .....Holdsworth "Special"..... .......Falcon "Special".......... .........Miyata 912........... ........................................
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 702 Post(s)
Liked 672 Times
in
420 Posts
Modern bikes aren't any better than classic bikes, just different. They haven't developed their own songs yet. Modern bikes are like buying all your music through digital downloads. You can carry it all on your phone and take it anywhere. Convenient, surely, however it will never compare to listening to old vinyl on a Linn Sondek turntable, running through a sweet old MacIntosh and a pair of Klipschorns.
#128
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Point Reyes Station, California
Posts: 4,529
Bikes: Indeed!
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1508 Post(s)
Liked 3,481 Times
in
1,133 Posts
I understand that Rivendell is coming out with a line of wool pants with leather pockets large enough to fit a rotary-dial telephone.
Brent
Brent
Likes For obrentharris:
#130
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,160
Mentioned: 481 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3811 Post(s)
Liked 6,717 Times
in
2,614 Posts
#131
Bike Butcher of Portland
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,639
Bikes: It's complicated.
Mentioned: 1299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4682 Post(s)
Liked 5,803 Times
in
2,286 Posts
Perfesser Lerner ftw!
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
#132
Bike Butcher of Portland
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,639
Bikes: It's complicated.
Mentioned: 1299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4682 Post(s)
Liked 5,803 Times
in
2,286 Posts
Found it: Retrogrouch: Retrogrouch: Etymology, Definition, Reference
Fred Zahradnik:
"Those who use the word are often asked: "Where did it come from and what does it really mean?" I believe I am the first person to use the word, in an editorial titled "Techies Unite!" in the May (not positive about the month but will verify when I can) 1990 edition of Bicycling Magazine.
There's the claim, links to earlier claimed usage are encouraged, if you can find it.
edit: it as in the June 1990 edition of Bicyclng Magazine, and SpeedofLight posted it here on the forums.
Fred Zahradnik:
"Those who use the word are often asked: "Where did it come from and what does it really mean?" I believe I am the first person to use the word, in an editorial titled "Techies Unite!" in the May (not positive about the month but will verify when I can) 1990 edition of Bicycling Magazine.
There's the claim, links to earlier claimed usage are encouraged, if you can find it.
edit: it as in the June 1990 edition of Bicyclng Magazine, and SpeedofLight posted it here on the forums.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
Last edited by gugie; 07-08-20 at 10:51 AM.
#133
Disraeli Gears
Now someone needs to come up with that article. Maybe @SpeedofLite, who seems to be angling for the job of C&V retro-librarian.
#134
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 12,057
Mentioned: 201 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3015 Post(s)
Liked 3,808 Times
in
1,411 Posts
The question: Originally Posted by SpeedofLite View Post
"I wonder when the term "retro-grouch" first gained popularity among cyclists."
Is your answer still Henri Desgrange?
If so, please post where this claim was made. My french is merde, maybe I missed it?
"I wonder when the term "retro-grouch" first gained popularity among cyclists."
Is your answer still Henri Desgrange?
If so, please post where this claim was made. My french is merde, maybe I missed it?
Do you think though it predates Henri? Maybe when safety bikes were all the rage some old bastard was upset at the loss of high wheelers? But really nothing much changed until those new-fangled multi-gear bikes. Flies in the face of Rule #5 . You people griping about sti and carbon are soft like the Pillsbury dough boy.
#135
Senior Member
Retro-grouch?
When did I realize it? ? When I purchased my first new bike ever. A 1992 Bridgestone MB-4. There were other bikes that I could have bought at the time with Rapidfire shifting, suspension, etc., but I loved the thumbies (still do), and the rest of the spec as well as the lugged frame. It was a toss up between that or a Breezer (Sky?), but the lugged frame won out.
My wife used it for a while, now my youngest daughter (32) has it. I now have a couple of lugged frames and love the ride. None are super stupid crazy and were all used. Oh, and all are good steel.
My wife used it for a while, now my youngest daughter (32) has it. I now have a couple of lugged frames and love the ride. None are super stupid crazy and were all used. Oh, and all are good steel.
#136
Bike Butcher of Portland
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,639
Bikes: It's complicated.
Mentioned: 1299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4682 Post(s)
Liked 5,803 Times
in
2,286 Posts
The actual term, not so much. The attitude in cycling? Definitely.
Do you think though it predates Henri? Maybe when safety bikes were all the rage some old bastard was upset at the loss of high wheelers? But really nothing much changed until those new-fangled multi-gear bikes. Flies in the face of Rule #5 . You people griping about sti and carbon are soft like the Pillsbury dough boy.
Do you think though it predates Henri? Maybe when safety bikes were all the rage some old bastard was upset at the loss of high wheelers? But really nothing much changed until those new-fangled multi-gear bikes. Flies in the face of Rule #5 . You people griping about sti and carbon are soft like the Pillsbury dough boy.
I don't gripe about STI and carbon, my personal preference is friction and steel. And I'm in a small minority, obviously, based on what I see people riding on, even here in Portlandia where retro is practically the area's motto. "Some of my best friends ride carbon."
I brought up Grant Petersen as a tongue-in-cheek comment, if you ask most "vintage aged" cyclists to name a cycling retro grouch, I'm pretty sure Grant's name would come #1 on a Pareto list.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
Last edited by gugie; 07-08-20 at 12:03 PM.
#137
Bike Butcher of Portland
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,639
Bikes: It's complicated.
Mentioned: 1299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4682 Post(s)
Liked 5,803 Times
in
2,286 Posts
Now someone needs to come up with that article. Maybe @SpeedofLite, who seems to be angling for the job of C&V retro-librarian.
I found it and edited my response, just above yours. July 1990 Bicycling magazine has it.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
#138
señor miembro
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 6,629
Bikes: '70s - '80s Campagnolo
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3891 Post(s)
Liked 6,491 Times
in
3,213 Posts
I was born with a cycling cap and greasepaint moustache, so it was more "retro groucho."
#139
Disraeli Gears
Well he lays out the belief systems well enough, but he doesn't convince me -- just toes his party line. It's a similar situation in the guitar/amp world. I feel strongly that somehow, in many areas of our lives, there was a time when things worked well enough, even superbly, and then innovators came along and pretty much spoiled things for a lot of us "hands-on" people (as opposed to "users") by making them more complicated, more expensive to operate, and ultimately less satisfying. While I'm turned off by proselytizers, I do appreciate where GP is coming from, and so do a lot of people -- similarly, there's a market for brand-new guitars and amps made "the old way". I think that the stress should be on retro, though, and not on grouch. When I rent a car, I'm happy to drive the whiz-bang contraption that modern automotive technology has given us for several days, but I would not care to own one, and have to deal with its maintenance. I notice that Zahradnik is now in digital marketing, rather than cycling media, and is happily guiding a Trek carbon rocket around. More power to him, but I seem to have drunk the other Kool-Aid.
Last edited by Charles Wahl; 07-08-20 at 02:53 PM.
Likes For Charles Wahl:
#140
Bike Butcher of Portland
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,639
Bikes: It's complicated.
Mentioned: 1299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4682 Post(s)
Liked 5,803 Times
in
2,286 Posts
Well he lays out the belief systems well enough, but he doesn't convince me -- just toes his party line. It's a similar situation in the guitar/amp world. I feel strongly that somehow, in many areas of our lives, there was a time when things worked well enough, even superbly, and then innovators came along and pretty much spoiled things for a lot of us "hands-on" people (as opposed to "users") by making them more complicated, more expensive to operate, and ultimately less satisfying. While I'm turned off by proselytizers, I do appreciate where GP is coming from, and so do a lot of people -- similarly, there's a market for brand-new guitars and amps made "the old way". I think that the stress should be on retro, though, and not on grouch. When I rent a car, I'm happy to drive the whiz-bang contraption that modern automotive technology has given us for several days, but I would not care to own one, and have to deal with its maintenance. I notice that Zahradnik is now in digital marketing, rather than cycling media, and is happily guiding a Trek carbon rocket around. More power to him, but I seem to have drunk the other Kool-Aid.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
#141
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,910
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4806 Post(s)
Liked 3,933 Times
in
2,558 Posts
Modern bikes aren't any better than classic bikes, just different. They haven't developed their own songs yet. Modern bikes are like buying all your music through digital downloads. You can carry it all on your phone and take it anywhere. Convenient, surely, however it will never compare to listening to old vinyl on a Linn Sondek turntable, running through a sweet old MacIntosh and a pair of Klipschorns.
But, I play those CDs over JBL bookshelf speakers that are smaller, better versions of the 1971 Advents I still have. The JBLs sound the same, just a lot cleaner treble and less bass being smaller. The Advents are tucked away in the back corners still producing that wonderful bass. (And yeah, I've replaced the AR amp with a Marantz. Big step up, And for my old vinyl? An equally old AR turntable.
My favorite and most played CD - a 1959 recording of the Chess Records music genius, Willie Dixon, but recorded on the road at the Van Gelder's (sp) premier jazz studio in New Jersey with his long time partner, Memphis Slim and 3 very good, no-name studio musicians. "Willie's Blues" All first takes. (You can hear the sax player hit a wrong first note a couple of times!) One afternoon. Everyone is right in tune and the recording was clean like recordings of the day of the blues never were.
Ben
#142
What??? Only 2 wheels?
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston-ish, MA
Posts: 13,434
Bikes: 72 Peugeot UO-8, 82 Peugeot TH8, 87 Bianchi Brava, 76? Masi Grand Criterium, 74 Motobecane Champion Team, 86 & 77 Gazelle champion mondial, 81? Grandis, 82? Tommasini, 83 Peugeot PF10
Mentioned: 189 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1222 Post(s)
Liked 645 Times
in
232 Posts
Retro-grouch? I'm enough of a retro-grouch to be consider in the high-risk group. I'm not sure how grouchy I am though.
__________________
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
Likes For jimmuller:
#143
Bike Butcher of Portland
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,639
Bikes: It's complicated.
Mentioned: 1299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4682 Post(s)
Liked 5,803 Times
in
2,286 Posts
Some are more grouchy than others.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
Likes For gugie:
#144
2-Wheeled Fool
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 2,346
Bikes: Surly Ogre, Brompton
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1385 Post(s)
Liked 677 Times
in
457 Posts
My problem is a sense of urgency. I feel like time is running out. I've been into this since 1972, and the longer I live, the more I want to just simply suck up everything I can concerning bikes. I'm obsessed with studying.
#145
I’m a little Surly
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Near the district
Posts: 2,422
Bikes: Two Cross Checks, a Karate Monkey, a Disc Trucker, and a VO Randonneur
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 699 Post(s)
Liked 1,294 Times
in
647 Posts
I'm only a partial retro grouch I don't like all the hydro formed tubing, and neat CF frame shapes even if I know they're better than pretty lugs and round tubes. I do like modern groups, wheels, disc brakes, bottom brackets, handlebars etc. I'm more a "restomod" kinda guy I just wish we could get some more silver, every thing is so black.
What I really don't like is cotton bar tape, and 80's saddles (vetta makes me cringe)
What I really don't like is cotton bar tape, and 80's saddles (vetta makes me cringe)
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
GGreenhorn
General Cycling Discussion
5
01-30-15 08:06 PM
bkwentz
Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational)
3
08-04-10 10:00 PM