SmoggyTwinkles

Right,

Decided to start a new thread on this now that I can post some pictures.

Everyone in the first thread was awesome, but I am a newbie and so couldn't post my pictures until I hit 10 posts.

Figured I'd start a fresh thread (here is the original https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...some-help.html )

So, this is my fathers old bicycle. It's been sitting in the garage for a few decades with flat tires.

If you read the old thread you'll see that he basically told me I could have a go at making this bike work (actually he thought it was still ok and I was like no it isn't, hasn't been usable for at least 25 years but I know what it is and I know it's there )

First things first, get new tubes and tires. I have no idea what I'm doing but I know how to use google:










Ok, that's just the start. Stuff has happened since, long way to go.

AdventureManCO 

This is a great start.

Keep the seat - those are prized in the vintage bike world. A light treatment of leather conditioner (like what Brooks makes) would do it well I'm sure

New chain time - a SRAM PC850 comes highly recommended

New tires for sure. If those are 27" rims, the Panaracer Pasela is impossible to go wrong with.

New cables - 2x brake and 2x shifter cables. Walmart has a super cheap set for like $12 for all this stuff, but it is cheap

You're going to want some new brake pads - old ones dry out and will suck

On my '73 Super Course, I used that green tub of turtle wax for polishing the frame - works great. Just be careful around decals, and starting with the rag/sponge slighly wet will make the compound go even further.

It would be a really good idea to take apart the wheel hubs (axles w/ the little bearings), the bottom bracket (where the cranks attach) and the headset (the part that makes the handlebars spin) so that they can be cleaned out of old nasty grease (or no grease at all) and re-grease and freshened up. This can come a little later - would be a good idea to watch some Youtube vids on how to approach this so you are not too overwhelmed.

Tools you would need would be minimal, and a good investment into the wider world of doing your own maintenance. Some basic cone wrenches, and a standard crank puller will go a long way.


You have a classic bike that is well-loved in the vintage bike world. Try to resist the temptation to sand down or repaint the frame (very bad idea), or get hasty with replacing too many components...although the upgraded alloy cranks were a smart idea at some point in the bike's past. An alloy seatpost (w/ a little grease where it goes down into the bike) would be another smart upgrade, but all in good time).

Those front derailleurs (the shifty thing above the big chainring) has a habit of cracking in the plastic where it is clamped around the bike. There are a zillion different derailleurs you could replace it with if it does start cracking, so no sweat. Someone here will probably give you one to replace it if that does happen. Most Suntour stuff (Cyclone in particular) would be a great and tasteful upgrade. These are all over my co-op and I'd be happy to pick up a front + rear set if you so desire.

We are here to help. Welcome to the addiction. And just wait till you get your first vintage Huffy! (sorry bad joke).


What was this 'bad news' from your previous thread? I need only good news happening here.

SmoggyTwinkles

So first things first obviously,

New tubes and tires.

I did some research, and ended up going with https://www.panaracerusa.com/product...commuter-tires

But prior to that I did call a legendary local bike shop to ask "dumb questions" I find I get good help if I inform them before hand that I have no idea what I'm doing haha.

So I also asked them how much it would cost to have tube and tires installed along with rim liner and they said $20 a wheel, and after me and my father struggling to get the old wheels off (and my father was just turning 80, kinda part of the reason for this restoration in a way) I thought that sounded worthwhile.

And good thing I did that (I ordered the tires and tubes off Amazon btw)

Brought the rims and tires and tubes in, they did them on the spot in 15 minutes (I had a hair appointment near by so they were nice like that) put the new wheels in the back seat, driving to the barber and BOOM! Holy crap!



I just started hearing the really weird loud crackle noise, like almost like a wood fire snapping and popping, then a gunshot going off!

I was so bummed out, like these weren't cheap tires like $70 each.

I went back after getting my haircut, and man these guys were awesome! They rummaged around for some tires they thought would work, and found a pair of Specialized tires that were half the price (literally) of the ones I brought to them. Didn't charge me a thing extra and they seem good. No gumwall but I don't care.

I returned the tires to amazon and basically, the tire blowing up saved me like $70, sweet!

SmoggyTwinkles

Yeah I plan to get into that eventually, but realize now that the best thing to do is just get it going.

I took it out for a spin after finally having good tires, and this was before I even started cleaning stuff, and it's pretty good, but the chain came off.

It obviously need serious work and I plan to do that,

BUT.................. Then this happened. I am so sorry Super Course fans...........I didn't know this would happen. I love projects, but I'm more carpentry kind of guy, this is new territory for me.

I was using some Zep degreaser to clean stuff up, along with some brushes, my old toothbrush, and some sandpaper for some stuff, and a brown ScotchBrite pad. All working great!

Well, I needed another bottle, and there's this Zep industrial strength degreaser and I'm like....hmmmm maybe this will be even better!

Uh oh:





Crap. What have I done? And what can I do here? obviously won't use the industrial stuff anymore.

Any ideas?

edit: there is no grease there, oh wow it sure did degrease it, and destroy the finish. The only reason the one part is still silver is because it wasn't submerged ( I left it submerged overnight because I did that with the regular degreaser and no problem) Oops!

Piff 

Wait, so they refunded you the cost of the blown tire, right? And the cost of the work they did? If you had been riding around that could've been a real mess with them liable.

SmoggyTwinkles

No I bought the tires and tubes off Amazon, and brought that stuff to them.

It wasn't their fault that I didn't have the right tires for the rims, they got me the right tires (wire bead) and didn't charge me for a new tube even though I didn't buy it from them.

Believe me they were awesome (and excitingly interested about the whole thing, like they don't get to figure out old bicycle stuff very often)

I returned the foldable Panaracer's to Amazon, and the new tires that the store had were half the price and the right thing!

Piff 

I'll wait for someone else to confirm or deny, but I'm pretty sure folding tires work with 70s rims. You just can't pump them up super high. Or so I thought? Anyways...I would recommend finding a new shop if they don't know much about old bikes.

SmoggyTwinkles

Maybe they pumped them up too much. That's possible.

But believe me they are an awesome bike shop that has been around forever. Like I say, they sorted me out.

I won't need them again until I get the gear and brakes rewired. Just didn't want to spend an entire day with my 80 year old dad trying to get new tubes and tires on.

I felt they gave me a great experience and were really nice to me. It's all good.

Can anyone recommend a lubricant for me for the chain and stuff? and the rear chain gear thing?

I want to figure out if I need to get a new rear derailleur but will try the putting the old stuff all back together first.

This is a long project for me, I'm not in a rush. Not sure why I'm typing in bold btw.

Kilroy1988 

I have no idea what you did to the finish on the Sugino crankset, but it's not original to the bicycle anyway. This Super Course would have had a chromed steel cottered crankset, which someone with performance and reliability in mind changed for that cotterless alloy Sugino setup sometime in the late 1970s at the earliest. What I hate to have to tell is that that Sugino Mighty crankset (in the nice condition it appeared to be in) is worth about half of the entire value of the bicycle!

If the freewheel still has rust on it after you used that degreaser stuff it might be shot, or else you can try taking a wire brush to it and see if you can clean that up.

-Gregory

repechage

depends on the rims. Folding beads stretch, so a tight tire initially will expand.
for an unhooked rim, I would stay with wire bead tires. 65-75 psi.

the 1 1/8" tires could go higher but not much more.

SmoggyTwinkles

I think that's basically what they put on there.

Let me go look at the tires they put on (be right back)

edit: also I don't know what an unhooked rim is........

disclaimer: I know nothing about bicycles, so really appreciate all the help! Thanks!

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/ro...=291040-184044

SmoggyTwinkles

I don't know what a freewheel is, but there is no rust in the aftermath of ruinining the finish on the Sugino stuff.

It almost seems like it's somehow been anodized? I don't even know.

Hey, guess what, my dad kept all the original stuff, so I'll have to post pictures.

He has two other derallieurs (I'm just gonna leave it, I can't spell that word without looking it up) and a bunch of other parts.

I'll have to show you guys what he has and maybe it's worth using some of those parts again or something. I dunno.

I have a few days off starting Sunday so maybe I'll get back into this.

What I really could use help with is lubricant. Chain oil? Grease?

Kilroy1988 

The freewheel is the set of rear cogs for the chain. Don't run a chain on rusty cogs!

For re-packing anything with bearings (hubs, bottom bracket, headset, pedals and possibly derailleur pulleys) use grease. Only use oil on the chain after everything's reassembled. Here's a little schematic for you, but note that the freewheel in your case is called a "cassette," because on modern bicycles cassettes are composed of individual cogs rather than a solid unit like what you've got - which is the freewheel. Cheers!

SmoggyTwinkles

Thanks you!

The cassette is where I really really feel like I want to get some sort of lubrication in there ASAP. I cleaned the crap out of it, thankfully it is steel (I think) and not aluminum so did not suffer the fate of the crank stuff (I'm learning!)

The cassette seems really nice, like spinning it in my fingers it sounds awesome, but is probably totally un-lubed right now, and it can't be taken apart so grease wont get in there, so I need an oil that can seep in there.

Suggestions?

SmoggyTwinkles

And yet another thanks, maybe I can understand the names of the parts a little better now haha. Sorry that I don't, I've fully admitted I have no idea what I'm talking about. But I do know that after cleaning a bunch of stuff, I need to re-lubricate.

Kilroy1988 

In your case it's a one-piece freewheel rather than a cassette. If the freewheel spins freely and has a nice clicking sound and locks up if you try to reverse it (which allows the forward pulling of the chain) then you probably don't have to worry about it. There's very little lubricant in there to start and about 50-60 extremely small ball bearings and a complicated levered system for the ratcheting. A lot of pretty dedicated people would rather toss and buy new ones than rebuild them! I've only rebuilt one and it was a PITA, but pretty rewarding. Honestly, even with fresh grease it didn't feel or operate a lot better than it did after sitting for fifty years...

Just as an example, I know an English guy who has collected and completely restored about two hundred quality vintage bikes from the 1930s-50s. I once asked him advice for the very freewheel I mentioned just a moment ago, and he said he'd personally never opened one up! Just always used those old ones as they were without trouble.

AdventureManCO 

chain = no grease

use lube - they make specific stuff for it, but you can go generic as well. I wouldn't worry too much with that old chain - I'd try to get a new on asap. Tires, chains, handlebar tape - all wear items. Not a bad idea to start fresh, and then you won't have to spend eons of time cleaning up that old nasty chain.

This bicycle uses 'friction shifting' which is very simple, and reliable. One thing you are going to want to lookup via youtube is 'derailleur limit screws' - basically controlling how far in or out your derailleurs will go to. Having these properly adjusted will make sure your chain will go to the outer and inner most cogs, but only just, and not jump off the cogs and then get jammed up in the bike frame or spokes. That's a bad day. It is a simple adjustment via two screws on each of the derailleurs.

As far as the tires go, the Panaracers are extremely good tires and universally recommended. Something must have went wrong. I'm thinking the bike shop may have messed up, but stuff happens, and I'm glad they took care of you.

I like to get the bike up in a stand (or do the old school 'flip over' method), take off the wheels, and just start wiping down the frame - getting the grease and grime off of everything and every surface you can. That is a great start.

If you like ordering through amazon, here is a good chain:

https://www.amazon.com/SRAM-P-Link-B...M+PC850&sr=8-2

cable kit:

https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Bic...te&sr=8-2&th=1

Wondering if some other members here might have some recommendations for brake pads. I'm only finding super cheap (low quality), and really expensive.

Would love to see the stuff your dad kept - may be some goodies in there. You can keep the original steel cranks off the bike - the current crankset is an upgrade. Don't worry about turning it black, not the end of the world. See if polish might take that black layer off. If not, no sweat. If you don't mind me asking - how'd you get the crankarms off?

This is a great bike to learn on. On, and put some cardboard down so that beauty doesn't have to scrap against the concrete Good luck!

USAZorro

A couple things. Park Tools has videos for EVERYTHING. While a wired tire will stay on better at higher pressures, likely the only thing wrong with the ones you got at first were that they were inflated over the PSI that the rim was designed for. If one of the tubes also blew, it might be a sign that the rims strips may not be doing all they are intended to. It could be due to their width or installation.

Sounds like you're on the fast track to learning. It can seem overwhelming at some points, but you're off to a great start. I am almost ashamed to mention how many things I learned the hard way - and not only when I was just starting out. This stuff isn't rocket science, but it also does require you to not take things for granted.

SmoggyTwinkles

Well, a lot to read and ponder.

So I will say this, the man who bought the bicycle helped out a little bit, but not much.

He'd rather watch 5+ soccer games per day, which is totally cool.

The cassette is now fully seized. I asked him to look into this, he didn't.

So I don't care about this any more. I did my part, but I'd rather be golfing or taking it easy.

And he'd rather be watching soccer and taking it easy.

Not sure where that gets me with this bicycle, but that's where it's at.

SmoggyTwinkles

I'll take some pics pretty soon. Still really looking for advice on lubricants. Like soaking stuff in oil so it doesn't seize up.

dddd

That degreaser is a very aggressive corrosive liquid. It probably rusted the interior of the freewheel.

You could dissolve any internal rust by soaking it in vinegar overnight, give it a spin and soak again if needed.

Wash it out with water, then whirl the water out of it (don't let it fly out of your hand).

Then oil it up generously with either a foaming/spray type of oil or plain motor oil or multipurpose oil. Lay it on a thick rag and let it drain out for hours or a day depending on the temperature. Be sure to lubricate the threads with grease or it will be impossible to remove some day.

Steel parts left for a long time in alkali degreasers become very brittle and may break. The chain comes to mind firstly, but a freewheel's teeth or it's internal ratchet pawls or springs may also fracture from any extended soaking in alkali solutions.

Chains lubed with oil can become saturated, and it's then impossible to wipe off enough of the oil that's trapped inside of the pivots and rollers. So better to buy (or make) one of the solvent-thinned chain lubricants that won't leave too much oil behind on your chain (for cleaner operation).

Use bearing grease for all ball bearings, which holds the balls in place during assembly.

Kilroy1988 

If it's seized your choice is either to:

a) Buy a brand new 5-speed freewheel on Amazon or eBay for a pittance, like this one:

Amazon.com : Ventura 5,6, or 7 Speed 14-28 Teeth Freewheel : Sports & Outdoors

b) Find a nice condition vintage freewheel, which will cost a lot more but may or may not be better quality and last longer in the end (depending on how it's been taken care of over the years).

c) Prepare to spend about 2-3 hours rebuilding it.

Rebuilding Bicycle Freewheels (sheldonbrown.com)

Cheers!

-Gregory

AdventureManCO 

Haha...that reminds me of a time I got a bike for the kid and it had a rusty chain, my brain was in 'Evaporust' mode, but I didn't have Evaporust, I had 'Rust-B-Gone'...which is basically acid (if you sill a little on your hands,,,just wait about 5-10 seconds and it starts burning). So I just dropped the whole chain in the container and left it overnight. When I went to fish it out the next day, I couldn't grab it for some reason, so I poured out the Rust-B-Gone, and then turned the container upside down, and hundreds of little chain pieces came falling out. To it's credit, the rust was gone

OP, you could use a host of options for the chain - I like using a spray-on wax-based lubricant. They also have bottles of lube that you can get at bike stores, but dddd is right you can use oil or just about anything like it - don't overthink it, especially on the old used chain.

Also, your last post sounded a little dejected. If doing bikes isn't your thing, there will probably be someone on this forum that would love to be the new custodian of that bike, but I encourage you to stick with it. Even if your dad isn't on board, you can derive a lot of enjoyment with getting this one back on the road. Your call. If you decide to, we'll help you with it.

denaffen

I’d happily take that “ruined” crankset off your hands.

TiHabanero

My first "good" bike was that very model and color. The cottered cranks were OK for some, but not where I lived. I was in the Bay Area at that time and those hills really were straight up and straight down (reference to Bill Cosby for us old timers). Beautiful bike to ride all day long. Nice that you are bringing it up to speed again. Too bad about the ruined finish on the crank, but it can still be used therefore not all is lost.