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Buying expensive bikes and parts...

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Buying expensive bikes and parts...

Old 12-22-15, 02:20 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia
Not necessarily so.

I am an iconoclast and a non-conformist. I really don' care to fit in with others.

I bought my bikes and I ride my bikes not to impress anyone nor to fit in with a certain crowd. I bought my bikes and I ride my bikes to please only one person: me and no one else.

I don' understand why is concept is so hard to grasp by so many.
It isn't hard to grasp. But what @practical said was quite correct. Very many purchases are status-driven.

I too like to think I am my own man, and all that stuff. But those who think they are not influenced by fashion and societal norms are almost certainly mistaken.

That's not to say you buy your bikes to impress others, of course. I'm happy to accept your assurances on that score.
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Old 12-22-15, 02:29 PM
  #52  
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I regularly spank guys on bikes costing 3 times what my mountain bike cost($1500+ hop ups.got 2grand in it)

And they are often ten, twenty years younger than me

I take great pride in that fact as I do my bikes..

Buy them 10K bikes rich guys...this spurs great R&D and it trickles down to me
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Old 12-22-15, 02:37 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by osco53
I regularly spank guys on bikes costing 3 times what my mountain bike cost($1500+ hop ups.got 2grand in it)

And they are often ten, twenty years younger than me

I take great pride in that fact as I do my bikes..
This is a very common attitude. The implication is that people who aren't great cyclists shouldn't have great bikes. They don't deserve it, is that it? Or at least, the bikes are wasted on them?

I can't see it, myself. People are entitled to spend their money as they choose. I don't expect people with expensive cars to have the skills of F1 drivers, I don't expect people with the latest Cervelo to climb like Pantani. And I certainly don't expect them to put off buying their Cervelo until they can.
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Old 12-22-15, 02:43 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by chasm54
It isn't hard to grasp. But what @practical said was quite correct. Very many purchases are status-driven.

I too like to think I am my own man, and all that stuff. But those who think they are not influenced by fashion and societal norms are almost certainly mistaken.

That's not to say you buy your bikes to impress others, of course. I'm happy to accept your assurances on that score.
I can see a new BMW or Porsche as a prestige purchase, but even within those you have to buy the correct ones to get any real prestige. And, guys with Ferraris, Lambos, and Maseratis will still look down there noses in many cases.

Within the bike world, it is much harder to buy a bike that really gets one true prestige. And, there really are not that many of those available for sale any one year. Then, divide that into two groups, those who buy the bikes in that range for the bikes characteristics and those looking for prestige.

If you are still following me here, you might notice that I am trying to make the point that buying bikes for prestige might not really be that common.

Also, most of the elite bikes really do have amazing performance capabilities and incredible components, so they are not fashion pieces, but instead a price being paid for early technology (not all, of course).

In any case, the folks who buy these bikes like them. So, why should we care. Also, as others have said, they are paying for future trickle down....
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Old 12-22-15, 02:49 PM
  #55  
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Any chance we could get away from the us versus them? Me being guilty of that at times, too. The point of the OP was more about folks in this age range looking at prices a little differently. Maybe seeing expensive differently? Maybe seeing buying something they truly love being less price dependent, and if expensive possibly less expensive over time due to fewer replacement bikes/parts?
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Old 12-22-15, 03:12 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by chasm54
That's not to say you buy your bikes to impress others, of course. I'm happy to accept your assurances on that score.
Not trying to assure you, or anyone else for that mater. that would be contrary to the statement on my post.

I am too old and too cranky to try to impress others. I do like nice thins, however.
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Old 12-22-15, 03:22 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia
I am too old and too cranky to try to impress others.
Biker395's law:

__________________
Proud parent of a happy inner child ...

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Old 12-22-15, 03:24 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Biker395
Biker395's law:

I love it, perfect!!!
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Old 12-22-15, 03:33 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Kindaslow
I am about 98% done with building up my SS MTB this way. The funny part to me is that nobody would guess the kind of money it takes to build a SS MTB just the way you want it. So, absolutely no prestige in this bike, even with some serious coin in it. But, it is a truly spectacular bike that I will love for years to come.
But the cost creeps up so slowly that you aren't really aware until you decide to get the calculator out. My first response is... I spent that much for this! But after I ride it, I forget about the cost and just enjoy.

John
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Old 12-22-15, 03:41 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO
But the cost creeps up so slowly that you aren't really aware until you decide to get the calculator out. My first response is... I spent that much for this! But after I ride it, I forget about the cost and just enjoy.

John
I have no problem forgetting about the cost. My wife, though, seems to remember the cost at moments convenient to her.
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Old 12-22-15, 03:45 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by RomansFiveEight
Photography is the WORST though. Unlike other hobbies, the photography hobby feels they are closed to newcomers. Boy do photographers hate other photographers. A lot of that is probably the professional side of things. The stereotype is a stay at home mom who buys an entry level low end camera, that she considers a 'high end' camera because it's not a point and shoot, sticks it on auto and takes terrible wedding and baby photos for all of her friends, blows them to smithereens with the sliders in Lightroom and says she's a professional photographer now. That sort of thing means guys like me who just like to take pictures and want to learn more, are kind of automatically shunned. Photography forums are notorious for eviscerating people. I posted an image that I didn't quite like how it turned out and wanted tips on and several posters told me I should give up and that I'm wasting my time. "Why would you even post this" was one response. It was just a shot of an old barn. Sheesh! I mean I know I suck but I'm having fun. But that's probably wasn't doesn't make me a part of the "in crowd". Because I'm just having fun, and not taking it too seriously. Photography is way, way down my hobby priority list. I have a cheap, low end DSLR that's now several years old and I have no intention of upgrading. Likewise, it seems people who want to just "buy" rights to being a cyclist (expensive bike and kit but without the accolades to show for it), or who don't take it seriously enough (cheap bikes, vintage bikes), are not real 'cyclists'.
Yup. I finally gave up moderating chores on a photography website because the attitudes were sucking all the air out of the room. The interwebs are infected with a toxic brew of old curmudgeons who have genuine experience but seem incapable of mentoring constructively, and enthusiastic n00bs who enthusiastically share bad advice and worse insults that they mistake for critiques.

As with Leicas and similarly pricey photo gear, I don't really care how much someone spends on toys. As long as they're enjoying themselves, it's all good. I even know a tiny handful of Leica owners who are also exceptionally good street/candid photographers. Most aren't. As long as the latter group don't behave like insufferable smug elitists because of the marque rather than the impact of their photos, I don't care.

If I could afford a better, especially lighter, bike, I'd do it and enjoy the hell out of it. Wouldn't bother me a bit if kids on Big Wheels and grandmas on tricycles continued to pass me.
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Old 12-22-15, 03:47 PM
  #62  
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I am a member of a bike club with 500 members. Many of these people have high-end equipment, shoes, etc., and some do not. It doesn't matter at all to any of us. Your riding speaks for itself, regardless of how much you have spent on stuff.

Another point which comes up during these threads about money is the relationship (perceived) of money vs performance. For many people the performance gains aren't the reason they buy something. Some of us buy something (bike, car, shoes, etc.) because we like it and we want it, not because we think it will make us faster.

I'm a car mechanic by trade and I have built up bikes and serviced bikes for decades. It's not romantic and holds no appeal to me. These days I rarely even clean my bikes and would just as soon pay someone to do certain things.
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Old 12-22-15, 03:51 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by canklecat

If I could afford a better, especially lighter, bike, I'd do it and enjoy the hell out of it. Wouldn't bother me a bit if kids on Big Wheels and grandmas on tricycles continued to pass me.
Now, that is a hell of a good attitude. But, if granny calls for a pass on me I am throwing something in her spokes! No way that old lady is getting by me! And, if the big wheels had spokes, some for that little kid!

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Old 12-22-15, 04:21 PM
  #64  
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I bought and restored some of my bikes because I thought they were an attractive design worth the effort. Like this one:
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Old 12-22-15, 04:36 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Kindaslow

If you are still following me here, you might notice that I am trying to make the point that buying bikes for prestige might not really be that common.
Prestige comes in various grades. I think it is extremely common for high-end bikes to be bought because they are high-end, rather than because the buyer can genuinely discern any difference in performance between the top of the range and the run-of-the-mill.

As far as difference in attitudes at different ages is concerned, my experience is that old people are just as likely as young people to be dazzled by bling.
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Old 12-22-15, 04:41 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by chasm54
Prestige comes in various grades. I think it is extremely common for high-end bikes to be bought because they are high-end, rather than because the buyer can genuinely discern any difference in performance between the top of the range and the run-of-the-mill.

As far as difference in attitudes at different ages is concerned, my experience is that old people are just as likely as young people to be dazzled by bling.
Sure. Brand matters. Good lord, just talk about saddles or cycling computers or shifters or pedals. People really get caught up in it.

Originally Posted by TriDanny47
It matters to me too. I guarantee I will never be a pro, I am surprised at how well I can ride given my overall health situation (my VO2 Max range has been 19 to 26, the mean being about 22). I have trouble with power but surprisingly good endurance. Running and swimming are harder, I get out of breath which brings waves of nausea. I push myself because I want to be better tomorrow than I am today - in all areas of my life. I'm not willing to settle for settling. I've seen that in all strata of society, not appealing to me.
0

I feel like I have five to ten years left to live - doctors say "we don't know" and are more optimistic - and new drugs for my condition, a chronic form of leukemia, mean they are probably right. Right now overall things are good medically given the totality of my circumstances. But I've always had a bad feeling from day one about this, and feel like the clock is ticking away.

Cycling is one of the things that has kept me motivated to move forward. It would be easier not to at times and just give in to this thing. If buying the next cool new cycling toy or just a jersey that catches my eye at the LBS keeps me moving forward with my plan, why not?
Thank you for sharing. What a great story. Prayers for comfort and stability!
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Old 12-22-15, 04:51 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by chasm54
Prestige comes in various grades. I think it is extremely common for high-end bikes to be bought because they are high-end, rather than because the buyer can genuinely discern any difference in performance between the top of the range and the run-of-the-mill.

As far as difference in attitudes at different ages is concerned, my experience is that old people are just as likely as young people to be dazzled by bling.
We can disagree on some points here.

You say it is extremely common that high end bikes are bought because they are high end bikes. This could be a common belief that some folks hold because people say it, not because there is evidence or proof. People used to think the earth was flat.

The performance difference does drop slower than the price increases, so each person needs to make their own decisions regarding these diverging curves.

Old guys may look at shiny objects just as quickly as younger guys, just like we look at hot younger woman. However, with age, I believe we have learned to think through the cost-benefit analysis a little more closely.

Just my thoughts, given neither of us, nor anyone here, has provided more than their own thoughts.
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Old 12-22-15, 05:38 PM
  #68  
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We also at this age understand the law of diminishing returns (at some point you pay more for small gains) as well as the depth of consumer folly. And just a tad of self-awareness is enough to tell us when we are over indulging one or the other, though that doesn't necessarily stop us.

I was happy with my WalMart special. $2k later I'm just as happy and now I appreciate the difference.
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Old 12-22-15, 06:30 PM
  #69  
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Thanks OP for the post and others POV's. I do have a tendency to poo poo the higher end bikes, but mostly from the perspective of what several mentioned about photog sites (snobs), a lot of people feel like they can't do this or that unless they have a better bike. I like to encourage others to ride what they have, most of us don't "need" a high end bike to do the job, the job can be done with a lot of different types of bikes(hell the most miles ridden in a year still stands from 1939 and he rode a steel framed 3 and 4 speed!), but if you have the means and want that bike, by all means go for it. My crappy bike is much better today than a high end bike was years ago, so we need folks to pay big bucks for high end stuff it eventually gets down to me!

I know a guy who spent $10k on a bike and mentioned to me (probably because mine was crappy) that a lot of people think that it's stupid to pay that much, I told him it's only stupid if a) you can't afford it and b) you don't ride it.

But in general I like to encourage people to just ride and don't worry about all the "stuff".
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Old 12-22-15, 06:58 PM
  #70  
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From my POV, the thing about bikes is it is reasonably possible to own a bike identical to what the best pros ride. I think these days, the true "top of the line" bikes are there because of features that aren't performance related (workmanship, aesthetics). I think it is possible to admire the intangibles without having to be a show-off.

scott s.
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Old 12-22-15, 08:05 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by osco53
I regularly spank guys on bikes costing 3 times what my mountain bike cost($1500+ hop ups.got 2grand in it)

And they are often ten, twenty years younger than me

I take great pride in that fact as I do my bikes..

Buy them 10K bikes rich guys...this spurs great R&D and it trickles down to me
$1500 plus? Sounds like a pretty expensive bike by just about any measure. Osco - be happy with whatever you ride and try to appreciate those nice bikes and cheap bikes alike irrespective of the talent (and age) of the rider. Remember, there will always be someone coming from behind that can pass you on a less expensive bike than your own.

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Old 12-22-15, 11:26 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Kindaslow
In part, I wonder if this crowd, the older crowd, sees things any differently than the younger crowd. Many folks, by this age, have some extra cash in their pocket. Also, if you have gone through other hobbies (sports cars, boats, motorcycles) a $5,000+ bike no longer sounds expensive.
Sure, I could easily afford several $5000+ bikes. But since entry level bikes do everything I need them to (and more!) I see little reason to spend more. Financial freedom is much more important to me, so I'd rather invest the extra cash.

Bikes depreciate, but the stock market always goes up. (long term)
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Old 12-23-15, 12:03 AM
  #73  
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My wife rides an "expensive" custom built bike that was my present to her when she retired. The custom frame alone costs twice as much as my bike. Add the components I used when when building the bike up for her, and it is probably worth 3 time the value of my bike.



She loves the bike and has put about 16,000 miles on it in the 5 years she's had it, more than half of those miles were loaded touring. She has 2 other bikes she rides, another touring bike and a road bike, but this one is her go-to bike.

The picture below shows our bikes packed onto a ferry on a tour a few years ago. When I looked down in horror at the pile the deck hands had made of the bikes, my wife just said, "they are only tools." When I get snobbish about equipment, she just chuckles and says, "it must be a man thing." She could care less about the logo on the down tube. Correction--My wife added after seeing the post; "if it fits me and it works"

Her bike is the blue one in the middle of the pile, and mine is the maroon one with the yellow panniers.

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Old 12-23-15, 12:21 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick
Sure, I could easily afford several $5000+ bikes. But since entry level bikes do everything I need them to (and more!) I see little reason to spend more. Financial freedom is much more important to me, so I'd rather invest the extra cash.

Bikes depreciate, but the stock market always goes up. (long term)
I do not know how many of the posts you read or did not read, but the market did come up during this discussion. We could waste time arguing about the merits of the different price points and features, but it would be wasted efforts. Given I have no debt and a pretty solid financial plan, I see it as a balance. Both my father and uncle passed away not enjoying the financial freedom they worked hard to earn.

So, I have very nice bikes. I try to ride the wheels off of them. I will not pass away with as large of a number for my children to fight over, but still a large number. Please note, I was debt free before my fathers' passing and most of his money is in a fund for my stepmother. I did not feel like hearing any silliness over that.

I do wonder if you, and anyone who only buys entry level bikes, would enjoy your cycling more with higher end bikes? But, I am tired after a long day and this is way off the point of the OP. And, hopefully when I wake up in the morning, there are more posts on topic.
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Old 12-23-15, 12:27 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by Doug64
My wife rides an "expensive" custom built bike that was my present to her when she retired. The custom frame alone costs twice as much as my bike. Add the components I used when when building the bike up for her, and it is probably worth 3 time the value of my bike.



She loves the bike and has put about 16,000 miles on it in the 5 years she's had it, more than half of those miles were loaded touring. She has 2 other bikes she rides, another touring bike and a road bike, but this one is her go-to bike.

The picture below shows our bikes packed onto a ferry on a tour a few years ago. When I looked down in horror at the pile the deck hands had made of the bikes, my wife just said, "they are only tools." When I get snobbish about equipment, she just chuckles and says, "it must be a man thing." She could care less about the logo on the down tube.

Her bike is the blue one in the middle of the pile, and mine is the maroon one with the yellow panniers.
Us guys are probably way more guilty!

just ask our wives!!!
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