mafac stiffener
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Saratoga calif.
Posts: 1,049
Bikes: Miyata 610(66cm), GT Vantara Hybrid (64cm), Nishiki International (64cm), Peugeot rat rod (62 cm), Trek 800 Burning Man helicopter bike, Bob Jackson frame (to be restored?) plus a never ending stream of neglected waifs from the Bike exchange.
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 339 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 632 Times
in
229 Posts
mafac stiffener
does anyone have a scale drawing of the after market stiffener that supposedly makes these brakes less prone to squeal. If so could you post it. I would like to ake a set for my '58 Follis.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 777
Bikes: Raleigh Classic 15, 84; Miyata 912, 85; Miyata Ridge Runner SE, 85; Miyata 610, 86; Miyata 100M, 86; Miyata Valley Runner, 88; Miyata Triple Cross, 89; GT Karakoram, 90; Miyata Elevation 300, 91; Marinoni Touring, 95; Long Haul Trucker, 2013
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked 133 Times
in
80 Posts
Don't have a drawing, but in case some haven't seen them, there are images of them here.
#3
Team Beer
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sacramento CA
Posts: 6,339
Bikes: Too Many
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked 159 Times
in
104 Posts
I would think that your first step with these brakes is to get new bushings. The brass bushings, or even new delrin bushings, eliminate the vibration that causes the noise.
__________________
I'm not one for fawning over bicycles, but I do believe that our bikes communicate with us, and what this bike is saying is, "You're an idiot." BikeSnobNYC
I'm not one for fawning over bicycles, but I do believe that our bikes communicate with us, and what this bike is saying is, "You're an idiot." BikeSnobNYC
Likes For Cynikal:
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,112
Bikes: Trek 800 x 2, Schwinn Heavy Duti, Schwinn Traveler, Schwinn Le Tour Luxe, Schwinn Continental, Cannondale M400 and Lambert, Schwinn Super Sport
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 811 Post(s)
Liked 1,024 Times
in
666 Posts
I made one once when I was younger and far less sophisticated. Oh, wait, that implies that I am sophisticated now and that is not true. I just took a piece of aluminum, about an 1/8" thick and placed the center-pull bracket over it. Then I marked the position of the first screw hole, drilled the hole. I then put a bolt through the first hole and used a drill to mark the position of the second hole. Once the center point was marked I can drill the hole without the possibility of messing up the bracket. Now the two holes had the proper center to center distance. Then marked out the curve of the bracket and cut it with a jigsaw.
Nowadays, I'd use transfer punches and a band saw. It is still the same process with better tools.
Nowadays, I'd use transfer punches and a band saw. It is still the same process with better tools.
Last edited by Velo Mule; 03-07-23 at 01:53 PM. Reason: spelling.
Likes For Velo Mule:
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 2,442
Bikes: Drysdale/Gitane/Zeus/Masi/Falcon/Palo Alto/Raleigh/Legnano
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 987 Post(s)
Liked 641 Times
in
407 Posts
If you are talking about the aftermarket kit that came in a poly-bag that boxed-in the calipers forward of the pivot bolts... I have ONE, not a complete set. What's your address, I'll send it to you! That said, I bought them in the early 1970's, so if there is a period-correct 1950's product -- I don't have a clue.
__________________
Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.
Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.
Likes For tiger1964:
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Medford MA
Posts: 2,089
Bikes: Ron Cooper touring, 1959 Jack Taylor 650b ladyback touring tandem, Vitus 979, Joe Bell painted Claud Butler Dalesman, Colin Laing curved tube tandem, heavily-Dilberted 1982 Trek 6xx, René Herse tandem
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 964 Post(s)
Liked 1,451 Times
in
723 Posts
Spence Wolf made them, so I'd imagine whenever he was around they would have been available. But it's hardly an original idea, I'm sure others have also made them! I have an original Spence Wolf one and I could make a dxf drawing if you nagged me enough.
__________________
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
#7
www.theheadbadge.com
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,514
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2422 Post(s)
Liked 4,396 Times
in
2,093 Posts
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Medford MA
Posts: 2,089
Bikes: Ron Cooper touring, 1959 Jack Taylor 650b ladyback touring tandem, Vitus 979, Joe Bell painted Claud Butler Dalesman, Colin Laing curved tube tandem, heavily-Dilberted 1982 Trek 6xx, René Herse tandem
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 964 Post(s)
Liked 1,451 Times
in
723 Posts
You musta replied right as I did. I can draw the dxf file from my original spence wolf specimen if that's what you need. Maybe extrapolate and make one for Raids too?! Drawing dxf files is easy.
__________________
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
Likes For scarlson:
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 2,442
Bikes: Drysdale/Gitane/Zeus/Masi/Falcon/Palo Alto/Raleigh/Legnano
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 987 Post(s)
Liked 641 Times
in
407 Posts
here.
Better still if you could substitute a MAFAC logo for the three center holes. "Yeah, this is the rare MAFAC Model 377 calipers, I paid a fortune for them on eBay".
__________________
Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.
Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.
#10
www.theheadbadge.com
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,514
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2422 Post(s)
Liked 4,396 Times
in
2,093 Posts
-Kurt
Likes For cudak888:
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 2,648
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 478 Post(s)
Liked 634 Times
in
336 Posts
Curiosity here: the spencer wolf thing just stabilizes the pivots a bit, right? So the actual load transferred between pivots is relatively small? If so could the majority of the brace be slotted?
#12
blahblahblah chrome moly
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,994
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1181 Post(s)
Liked 2,576 Times
in
1,076 Posts
The only critical dimension is the post-to-post spacing, and even that has some tolerance because you can enlarge the holes if it won't bolt on, or "customize" (ovalize) one or both holes with a round file as necessary to get it to fit. The holes are nominal 6 mm but you can drill them with a 1/4" drill, slightly OS but it won't hurt the function any. Once the screws are tight, the brake can't tell what size the holes are — to a point. The plate has to tighten against the end of the pivot boss, which is 8 mm (5/16"), so don't let your hole get that big!
I don't think the plates are a panacea against squealing, but they can help and they're unlikely to make it worse. Their main effect is to reduce the "lost motion" at the hand lever caused by flex in the arch with the pivot posts, what Mafac called the etrier. Gives a firmer or less mushy feel, especially good if you were in danger of bottoming out the lever on the handlebar.
But that same flex in the etrier can allow the pads to twist into an anti-toed position under hard braking (especially in front), so reducing it is likely to help with squealing. I still recommend a little toe-in, but you can get by with less with a stiffener.
I don't think the plates are a panacea against squealing, but they can help and they're unlikely to make it worse. Their main effect is to reduce the "lost motion" at the hand lever caused by flex in the arch with the pivot posts, what Mafac called the etrier. Gives a firmer or less mushy feel, especially good if you were in danger of bottoming out the lever on the handlebar.
But that same flex in the etrier can allow the pads to twist into an anti-toed position under hard braking (especially in front), so reducing it is likely to help with squealing. I still recommend a little toe-in, but you can get by with less with a stiffener.
Likes For bulgie:
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,272
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3814 Post(s)
Liked 3,345 Times
in
2,182 Posts
-----
ironic that it is only a five km or so hop from capnjonny's location to the Spence Wolf Randy Lane location...
advert of fifty yar back, March 1973
-----
ironic that it is only a five km or so hop from capnjonny's location to the Spence Wolf Randy Lane location...
advert of fifty yar back, March 1973
-----
#14
www.theheadbadge.com
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,514
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2422 Post(s)
Liked 4,396 Times
in
2,093 Posts
#15
blahblahblah chrome moly
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,994
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1181 Post(s)
Liked 2,576 Times
in
1,076 Posts
Oh Rueda Tropical sez the Racers/Comps with the adjustable etrier were 63 mm. I can't confirm that at the moment.
Here we go, from a Mafac catalog:
Last edited by bulgie; 03-07-23 at 03:01 PM.
Likes For bulgie:
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 2,442
Bikes: Drysdale/Gitane/Zeus/Masi/Falcon/Palo Alto/Raleigh/Legnano
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 987 Post(s)
Liked 641 Times
in
407 Posts
...and matching the arc of the base plate, presuming you want fender clearance.
__________________
Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.
Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.
Likes For tiger1964:
#17
blahblahblah chrome moly
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,994
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1181 Post(s)
Liked 2,576 Times
in
1,076 Posts
Ooh straight across from boss to boss (sounds fun to say) would be the stiffest, if you're using tiny enough tires! <jk>
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,909
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4806 Post(s)
Liked 3,932 Times
in
2,557 Posts
Now, if you have the tooling to do a machined perfect arc, get it right the first time! But the band and jig saw folk don't have that issue/privilege.
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 2,442
Bikes: Drysdale/Gitane/Zeus/Masi/Falcon/Palo Alto/Raleigh/Legnano
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 987 Post(s)
Liked 641 Times
in
407 Posts
Well, it wouldn't be critical for me either -- but I have not seen the OP's bike.
__________________
Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.
Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Burien WA
Posts: 512
Bikes: Cannondale Synapse, LeMond Victoire, Bianchi Campione d'Italia, Kona Hei Hei, Ritchey Ultra, Schwinn "Paramount" PDG, '83 Trek 640
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 268 Post(s)
Liked 325 Times
in
211 Posts
Would these be roughly the same dimension for cantilever brakes from the 90's, such that you could use the add-on aftermarket bridges that were designed to stiffen suspension forks on mountain bikes?
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Fairplay Co
Posts: 9,530
Bikes: Current 79 Nishiki Custum Sport, Jeunet 620, notable previous bikes P.K. Ripper loop tail, Kawahara Laser Lite, Paramount Track full chrome, Raliegh Internatioanl, Motobecan Super Mirage. 59 Crown royak 3 speed
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 792 Post(s)
Liked 1,783 Times
in
638 Posts
Not really since there is about 5mm difference in the mounting points.
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Medford MA
Posts: 2,089
Bikes: Ron Cooper touring, 1959 Jack Taylor 650b ladyback touring tandem, Vitus 979, Joe Bell painted Claud Butler Dalesman, Colin Laing curved tube tandem, heavily-Dilberted 1982 Trek 6xx, René Herse tandem
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 964 Post(s)
Liked 1,451 Times
in
723 Posts
Furthermore, the cantilever stiffening plates arch way up high, which isn't necessary for a center pull. It would look funny and not be as strong.
__________________
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
#23
www.theheadbadge.com
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,514
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2422 Post(s)
Liked 4,396 Times
in
2,093 Posts
Racer, Comp, 2000 and some others are 62. Raid = 75
Oh Rueda Tropical sez the Racers/Comps with the adjustable etrier were 63 mm. I can't confirm that at the moment.
Here we go, from a Mafac catalog:
Oh Rueda Tropical sez the Racers/Comps with the adjustable etrier were 63 mm. I can't confirm that at the moment.
Here we go, from a Mafac catalog:
Just ordered a run of five 62mm laser-cut bridges out of 5052 aluminum. Should be interesting to see how they perform.
-Kurt
Last edited by cudak888; 03-07-23 at 08:15 PM.
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Medford MA
Posts: 2,089
Bikes: Ron Cooper touring, 1959 Jack Taylor 650b ladyback touring tandem, Vitus 979, Joe Bell painted Claud Butler Dalesman, Colin Laing curved tube tandem, heavily-Dilberted 1982 Trek 6xx, René Herse tandem
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 964 Post(s)
Liked 1,451 Times
in
723 Posts
@cudak888 how much does that cost, roughly, to get that done?
My OG Spence Wolf plate measures 0.1" thick (2.55mm or probably 10ga if my chart is right). It is obviously done in inches, so I'll describe it in inches. It has the two 1/4" holes for the brake pivot posts plus 3 more 1/4" holes (one centered in the center, one centered 1/2" outboard on either side). The plate is 0.55" wide. The arc its centerline inscribes peaks at 3/4" up from the level of the posts. So it's a radius of 4.4" on the centerline, or 4.125" minor radius and 4.675" major radius.
Aw heck is this information even useful if you've ordered them already? Should I make a drawing for the Raids?
My OG Spence Wolf plate measures 0.1" thick (2.55mm or probably 10ga if my chart is right). It is obviously done in inches, so I'll describe it in inches. It has the two 1/4" holes for the brake pivot posts plus 3 more 1/4" holes (one centered in the center, one centered 1/2" outboard on either side). The plate is 0.55" wide. The arc its centerline inscribes peaks at 3/4" up from the level of the posts. So it's a radius of 4.4" on the centerline, or 4.125" minor radius and 4.675" major radius.
Aw heck is this information even useful if you've ordered them already? Should I make a drawing for the Raids?
__________________
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
#25
www.theheadbadge.com
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,514
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2422 Post(s)
Liked 4,396 Times
in
2,093 Posts
@cudak888 how much does that cost, roughly, to get that done?
My OG Spence Wolf plate measures 0.1" thick (2.55mm or probably 10ga if my chart is right). It is obviously done in inches, so I'll describe it in inches. It has the two 1/4" holes for the brake pivot posts plus 3 more 1/4" holes (one centered in the center, one centered 1/2" outboard on either side). The plate is 0.55" wide. The arc its centerline inscribes peaks at 3/4" up from the level of the posts. So it's a radius of 4.4" on the centerline, or 4.125" minor radius and 4.675" major radius.
Aw heck is this information even useful if you've ordered them already? Should I make a drawing for the Raids?
My OG Spence Wolf plate measures 0.1" thick (2.55mm or probably 10ga if my chart is right). It is obviously done in inches, so I'll describe it in inches. It has the two 1/4" holes for the brake pivot posts plus 3 more 1/4" holes (one centered in the center, one centered 1/2" outboard on either side). The plate is 0.55" wide. The arc its centerline inscribes peaks at 3/4" up from the level of the posts. So it's a radius of 4.4" on the centerline, or 4.125" minor radius and 4.675" major radius.
Aw heck is this information even useful if you've ordered them already? Should I make a drawing for the Raids?
A drawing for the Raids would help, though Mike Terraferma might have one I can borrow. A straight-on photograph of a Raid with the arms at their normal spot when resting (with the cable set) might help more than anything else.
-Kurt
Last edited by cudak888; 03-07-23 at 09:00 PM.