Rivendell Bike Works: "Black Reparations Pricing"
#26
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#28
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So if one parent is white, the other black, do you get 22.5% discount? What about just one black grand parent? You need to show your family tree to claim this benefit? Exactly how the Nazis structured their race laws that gave citizens certain rights based on their "race".
The road to hell is plastered with good intentions. I get it, they try to do something good. But this plays right into the propaganda of a certain "party" that now has an argument to claim white people are discriminated against.
Chinese immigrants were treated poorly in this country. Remember the "Irish need not apply" signs in stores? And the internments of (US citizens) Japanese in WWII? No discount for them?
BTW, there are no biological human races. The concept of race was invented during the enlightenment in Europe where it was frowned upon on to enslave or kill fellow humans (mostly fellow Christians). The solution? Declare the people one wanted to enslave were a different race. Easy peasy. This bogus science peaked with Himmler and Mengele et al who tried to prove that whites historically are superior. All bogus, obviously, and doesn't withstand actual science (like genetics).
Sad to see we still use this concept of Race in this country.
The road to hell is plastered with good intentions. I get it, they try to do something good. But this plays right into the propaganda of a certain "party" that now has an argument to claim white people are discriminated against.
Chinese immigrants were treated poorly in this country. Remember the "Irish need not apply" signs in stores? And the internments of (US citizens) Japanese in WWII? No discount for them?
BTW, there are no biological human races. The concept of race was invented during the enlightenment in Europe where it was frowned upon on to enslave or kill fellow humans (mostly fellow Christians). The solution? Declare the people one wanted to enslave were a different race. Easy peasy. This bogus science peaked with Himmler and Mengele et al who tried to prove that whites historically are superior. All bogus, obviously, and doesn't withstand actual science (like genetics).
Sad to see we still use this concept of Race in this country.
#30
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So if one parent is white, the other black, do you get 22.5% discount? What about just one black grand parent? You need to show your family tree to claim this benefit? Exactly how the Nazis structured their race laws that gave citizens certain rights based on their "race".
The road to hell is plastered with good intentions. I get it, they try to do something good. But this plays right into the propaganda of a certain "party" that now has an argument to claim white people are discriminated against.
Chinese immigrants were treated poorly in this country. Remember the "Irish need not apply" signs in stores? And the internments of (US citizens) Japanese in WWII? No discount for them?
BTW, there are no biological human races. The concept of race was invented during the enlightenment in Europe where it was frowned upon on to enslave or kill fellow humans (mostly fellow Christians). The solution? Declare the people one wanted to enslave were a different race. Easy peasy. This bogus science peaked with Himmler and Mengele et al who tried to prove that whites historically are superior. All bogus, obviously, and doesn't withstand actual science (like genetics).
Sad to see we still use this concept of Race in this country.
The road to hell is plastered with good intentions. I get it, they try to do something good. But this plays right into the propaganda of a certain "party" that now has an argument to claim white people are discriminated against.
Chinese immigrants were treated poorly in this country. Remember the "Irish need not apply" signs in stores? And the internments of (US citizens) Japanese in WWII? No discount for them?
BTW, there are no biological human races. The concept of race was invented during the enlightenment in Europe where it was frowned upon on to enslave or kill fellow humans (mostly fellow Christians). The solution? Declare the people one wanted to enslave were a different race. Easy peasy. This bogus science peaked with Himmler and Mengele et al who tried to prove that whites historically are superior. All bogus, obviously, and doesn't withstand actual science (like genetics).
Sad to see we still use this concept of Race in this country.
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#31
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In the USA, if society sees you as black then you are treated as being black with all the racism that may or may not come with it. Unfortunately, it's what you look like on the outside which will determine how racism affects you. People in this country typically don't treat an interracial black-white/white-black person as being white just going on outward appearances.
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#32
Senior Member
- Remarkably those that support this redistribution of wealth have no fund of their own set up to redistribute THEIR wealth to people with a skin color different than their own. We are all human, there are no biological races, I do not see skin color, I see a fellow human. It is time all of us do as well. I do have preference for bike brands. Does that make me a bad person?
#33
Senior Member
So if one parent is white, the other black, do you get 22.5% discount? What about just one black grand parent? You need to show your family tree to claim this benefit? Exactly how the Nazis structured their race laws that gave citizens certain rights based on their "race".
The road to hell is plastered with good intentions. I get it, they try to do something good. But this plays right into the propaganda of a certain "party" that now has an argument to claim white people are discriminated against.
Chinese immigrants were treated poorly in this country. Remember the "Irish need not apply" signs in stores? And the internments of (US citizens) Japanese in WWII? No discount for them?
BTW, there are no biological human races. The concept of race was invented during the enlightenment in Europe where it was frowned upon on to enslave or kill fellow humans (mostly fellow Christians). The solution? Declare the people one wanted to enslave were a different race. Easy peasy. This bogus science peaked with Himmler and Mengele et al who tried to prove that whites historically are superior. All bogus, obviously, and doesn't withstand actual science (like genetics).
Sad to see we still use this concept of Race in this country.
The road to hell is plastered with good intentions. I get it, they try to do something good. But this plays right into the propaganda of a certain "party" that now has an argument to claim white people are discriminated against.
Chinese immigrants were treated poorly in this country. Remember the "Irish need not apply" signs in stores? And the internments of (US citizens) Japanese in WWII? No discount for them?
BTW, there are no biological human races. The concept of race was invented during the enlightenment in Europe where it was frowned upon on to enslave or kill fellow humans (mostly fellow Christians). The solution? Declare the people one wanted to enslave were a different race. Easy peasy. This bogus science peaked with Himmler and Mengele et al who tried to prove that whites historically are superior. All bogus, obviously, and doesn't withstand actual science (like genetics).
Sad to see we still use this concept of Race in this country.
Almost all groups have been discriminated against by another group at some point in history for some reason. But in America we have discriminated against black people on the basis of their skin color for 400 years. For most of that time the discrimination was not only legal, but was actually written into the laws. Are there other groups that have been discriminated against in America? Of course, but does that mean we shouldn't do anything to address the mistreatment of black people?
I understand that there aren't biological human races, but there certainly are societal human races, and we live in a world where people are treated differently based on how society views them based on skin color. It may be sad that hat is still the case, but it is the reality in which we live, and so it is a reality that must be faced and address rather than buried.
Perhaps Mercedes Benz and BMW will institute reparations pricing on their high priced products to the descendants of victims of their country's race based discrimination. They might even use calipers on their prospective customers' facial features in their showrooms to assure themselves that only people of the right race get the discount.
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#34
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In before the lock.
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#35
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I'm not suggesting that you would do that, but they did address that in the announcement. They have decided to use the honor system on this and have asked that people respect what they are doing and not take advantage of it. That may be foolish of them, but I would hope that you have enough moral fortitude to not actually take advantage of this unless you are black.
#36
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Most people alive today, and many companies still in business don't have history going back to slavery. How far back in time do you believe a person or institution needs to have before making reparations becomes necessary? Would you argue that black people in America today are treated equally in reality rather than just in words when necessary?
#37
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I'm not suggesting that you would do that, but they did address that in the announcement. They have decided to use the honor system on this and have asked that people respect what they are doing and not take advantage of it. That may be foolish of them, but I would hope that you have enough moral fortitude to not actually take advantage of this unless you are black.
Selling a few bikes to people who likely wouldn't have bought from Riv?
Irritating some people who wouldn't have bought a Riv bike anyway?
People are certainly free to express an opinion about how they spend their money. No one here would be able to "tell" them not to do something.
Last edited by njkayaker; 10-02-20 at 09:54 AM.
#40
Senior Member
I don't think reparations are necessary at all. It is preposterous to think that monetary payments are going to do anything to "right the ship" at the root causes of unequal treatment. A hateful racist isn't going to magically go away just because we paid money to his victims.
#41
Senior Member
Would the typical Riv purchaser lie about this?
If Riv's market is mostly white people (who might not be inclined to lie about this), what's the downside?
Selling a few bikes to people who likely wouldn't have bought from Riv?
Irritating some people who wouldn't have bought a Riv bike anyway?
If Riv's market is mostly white people (who might not be inclined to lie about this), what's the downside?
Selling a few bikes to people who likely wouldn't have bought from Riv?
Irritating some people who wouldn't have bought a Riv bike anyway?
#42
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I didn't mean to imply there was a downside to them using the honor system, just that some people might think it is foolish of them to do so. I agree, worst case some dishonest people take advantage of this, but Rivendell has clearly run the numbers on their end and can afford to do this, so they won't be financially hurt if people lie.
I just think there's not that big of a risk of people taking advantage of it.
Rivendell has (as you said) thought about it (including the risk of it being taken advantage of).
I'm not suggesting that you would do that, but they did address that in the announcement. They have decided to use the honor system on this and have asked that people respect what they are doing and not take advantage of it. That may be foolish of them, but I would hope that you have enough moral fortitude to not actually take advantage of this unless you are black.
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#45
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So if one parent is white, the other black, do you get 22.5% discount? What about just one black grand parent? You need to show your family tree to claim this benefit? Exactly how the Nazis structured their race laws that gave citizens certain rights based on their "race".
The road to hell is plastered with good intentions. I get it, they try to do something good. But this plays right into the propaganda of a certain "party" that now has an argument to claim white people are discriminated against.
Chinese immigrants were treated poorly in this country. Remember the "Irish need not apply" signs in stores? And the internments of (US citizens) Japanese in WWII? No discount for them?
BTW, there are no biological human races. The concept of race was invented during the enlightenment in Europe where it was frowned upon on to enslave or kill fellow humans (mostly fellow Christians). The solution? Declare the people one wanted to enslave were a different race. Easy peasy. This bogus science peaked with Himmler and Mengele et al who tried to prove that whites historically are superior. All bogus, obviously, and doesn't withstand actual science (like genetics).
Sad to see we still use this concept of Race in this country.
The road to hell is plastered with good intentions. I get it, they try to do something good. But this plays right into the propaganda of a certain "party" that now has an argument to claim white people are discriminated against.
Chinese immigrants were treated poorly in this country. Remember the "Irish need not apply" signs in stores? And the internments of (US citizens) Japanese in WWII? No discount for them?
BTW, there are no biological human races. The concept of race was invented during the enlightenment in Europe where it was frowned upon on to enslave or kill fellow humans (mostly fellow Christians). The solution? Declare the people one wanted to enslave were a different race. Easy peasy. This bogus science peaked with Himmler and Mengele et al who tried to prove that whites historically are superior. All bogus, obviously, and doesn't withstand actual science (like genetics).
Sad to see we still use this concept of Race in this country.
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#47
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That’s often been my experience in life. Being “well-spoken” affects treatment. “You don’t sound black,” is something I’ve heard more than once.
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OK, terrific! Wow, this is a depressing thread.
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Good lord. You will rejoice to see the business fail? Disagree with the policy, fine, but rejoice at the business failing?...man thats extreme.
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