Are Rene Herse Extralights supposed to have sidewall pinholes?
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Are Rene Herse Extralights supposed to have sidewall pinholes?
I just went to mount a brand new pair of Bon Jon Extralights, with black sidewall, and both tires have pinholes at several points on the sidewalls, at mold release ridges.
Is this typical?
I’ve heard of Extralights having leaky sidewalls, and I
know Herse say the Extralights need sealant to be air tight, but are these pinholes what they mean? I guess I assumed the thin sidewalls didn’t have enough rubber thickness to prevent leakage, but that there are actually holes is quite a surprise...if
indeed that’s normal and not
defects.
I found no phone number at RH to call with the question, and only a warranty request form; it kind of sucks one can’t talk to someone live, but I did submit the form explaining the
situation.
I’m kind of loathe to add sealant if I’m just going to have to pull these off immediately for warranty replacement, but since the site says to 7 to 14 days for a reply, I guess I may as well add it and let it seal the holes.
Thinking about it more now, I guess there is no problem in letting the sealant do its thing; I was caught off guard by the holes, and immediately assumed it was a flaw, but maybe regardless of whether it is or not, it doesn’t matter if it seals up.
Anyone have any experience with this, or thoughts on whether it’s a problematic
situation?
Is this typical?
I’ve heard of Extralights having leaky sidewalls, and I
know Herse say the Extralights need sealant to be air tight, but are these pinholes what they mean? I guess I assumed the thin sidewalls didn’t have enough rubber thickness to prevent leakage, but that there are actually holes is quite a surprise...if
indeed that’s normal and not
defects.
I found no phone number at RH to call with the question, and only a warranty request form; it kind of sucks one can’t talk to someone live, but I did submit the form explaining the
situation.
I’m kind of loathe to add sealant if I’m just going to have to pull these off immediately for warranty replacement, but since the site says to 7 to 14 days for a reply, I guess I may as well add it and let it seal the holes.
Thinking about it more now, I guess there is no problem in letting the sealant do its thing; I was caught off guard by the holes, and immediately assumed it was a flaw, but maybe regardless of whether it is or not, it doesn’t matter if it seals up.
Anyone have any experience with this, or thoughts on whether it’s a problematic
situation?
#2
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I’ve heard of Extralights having leaky sidewalls, and I
know Herse say the Extralights need sealant to be air tight, but are these pinholes what they mean? I guess I assumed the thin sidewalls didn’t have enough rubber thickness to prevent leakage, but that there are actually holes is quite a surprise...if
indeed that’s normal and not
defects.
know Herse say the Extralights need sealant to be air tight, but are these pinholes what they mean? I guess I assumed the thin sidewalls didn’t have enough rubber thickness to prevent leakage, but that there are actually holes is quite a surprise...if
indeed that’s normal and not
defects.
Those are actually holes, not just round spots in the ridge?
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Do they hold air? I don't ride tubeless tires that won't hold air without sealant.
Why are all those threads showing on your spokes?
Phone: (206) 789-0424
Why are all those threads showing on your spokes?
Phone: (206) 789-0424
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I checked the Rene Herse website to verify my question: are these tubeless clinchers? No they are not.
So I am wondering if you are taking about adding sealant to the inner tube? Are you running a butyl or latex inner tube? The pinholes you are seeing might just be the “extralight” sidewall and not a manufacturing defect. Seeing those exposed plies reminds me of some older Continental Grand Prix tires I used to run. I would think you just run them with whatever tube you choose, with no sealant and then report back on their relative air retention.
So I am wondering if you are taking about adding sealant to the inner tube? Are you running a butyl or latex inner tube? The pinholes you are seeing might just be the “extralight” sidewall and not a manufacturing defect. Seeing those exposed plies reminds me of some older Continental Grand Prix tires I used to run. I would think you just run them with whatever tube you choose, with no sealant and then report back on their relative air retention.
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I checked the Rene Herse website to verify my question: are these tubeless clinchers? No they are not.
So I am wondering if you are taking about adding sealant to the inner tube? Are you running a butyl or latex inner tube? The pinholes you are seeing might just be the “extralight” sidewall and not a manufacturing defect. Seeing those exposed plies reminds me of some older Continental Grand Prix tires I used to run. I would think you just run them with whatever tube you choose, with no sealant and then report back on their relative air retention.
So I am wondering if you are taking about adding sealant to the inner tube? Are you running a butyl or latex inner tube? The pinholes you are seeing might just be the “extralight” sidewall and not a manufacturing defect. Seeing those exposed plies reminds me of some older Continental Grand Prix tires I used to run. I would think you just run them with whatever tube you choose, with no sealant and then report back on their relative air retention.
- Clincher, folding bead
- Tubeless-compatible
- Maximum pressure with tubes: 90 psi (6.2 bar)
- Maximum recommended pressure – tubeless: 60 psi (4 bar)
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From the look of those exposed spoke threads, leaky sidewalls will be the least of your troubles.
Last edited by Koyote; 01-18-21 at 04:14 PM.
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So running these Bon Jon tires tubeless does sound like it could be dicey.
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Do they hold air? I don't ride tubeless tires that won't hold air without sealant.
Why are all those threads showing on your spokes?
Phone: (206) 789-0424
Why are all those threads showing on your spokes?
Phone: (206) 789-0424
I don’t have a problem with needing sealant, I just wonder if the holes are defects or typical of the construction.
The spokes are fiber; Spinergy wheels.
Thanks for the phone #! I’ll give ‘em a call now!
EDIT: number does not work at all.
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Pretty sure I read over the summer a blog post by Jan where he rambled on in defense of his company not having an easy way to call them. It cited covid, working from home, not able to forward calls, yada yada. Basically, accept the poor customer service for a premium product even if competitors have figured out better working options.
Having read countless forum posts(here and elsewhere) as well as actual tire reviews by websites that all complain about RH tires not sealing and having to send em back for warranty, I am convinced that 30% of the reason why RH tires are so expensive is due to warranty processing costs(shipping, inventory loss, etc).
They look cool though.
Having read countless forum posts(here and elsewhere) as well as actual tire reviews by websites that all complain about RH tires not sealing and having to send em back for warranty, I am convinced that 30% of the reason why RH tires are so expensive is due to warranty processing costs(shipping, inventory loss, etc).
They look cool though.
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So I added sealant, 40ml to start, and besides light leaking through the holes, the sealant seemed to get sucked up by the tire: after a second, I couldn’t hear it sloshing in there, and not all the holes sealed, so I added another 30ml and they seem to have sealed fine.
I gotta get to the studio now, so I’ll check on them later this evening and see what’s happening.
I gotta get to the studio now, so I’ll check on them later this evening and see what’s happening.
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No advice but here's my thought.
About a month ago, I started the long slow process of putting a new bike together while parts arrived in the mail, and I only have limited free time.
The first task was mounting my tires. I used Maxxis Ramblers and Stan's Crest ZTR rims. I sealed the rim and mounted with soap and water, and left them. Figuring I'd only want sealant once I was actually ready to ride the bike.
It's been awhile, a month or so, they are still aired up and only a few PSI less than they started. Without a drop of sealant yet.
These tires are also as light as anything RH sells in that size.
I have never ridden RH. That ride better be better than God's chariot to justify leaky new tires.
About a month ago, I started the long slow process of putting a new bike together while parts arrived in the mail, and I only have limited free time.
The first task was mounting my tires. I used Maxxis Ramblers and Stan's Crest ZTR rims. I sealed the rim and mounted with soap and water, and left them. Figuring I'd only want sealant once I was actually ready to ride the bike.
It's been awhile, a month or so, they are still aired up and only a few PSI less than they started. Without a drop of sealant yet.
These tires are also as light as anything RH sells in that size.
I have never ridden RH. That ride better be better than God's chariot to justify leaky new tires.
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Pretty sure I read over the summer a blog post by Jan where he rambled on in defense of his company not having an easy way to call them. It cited covid, working from home, not able to forward calls, yada yada. Basically, accept the poor customer service for a premium product even if competitors have figured out better working options.
Having read countless forum posts(here and elsewhere) as well as actual tire reviews by websites that all complain about RH tires not sealing and having to send em back for warranty, I am convinced that 30% of the reason why RH tires are so expensive is due to warranty processing costs(shipping, inventory loss, etc).
They look cool though.
Having read countless forum posts(here and elsewhere) as well as actual tire reviews by websites that all complain about RH tires not sealing and having to send em back for warranty, I am convinced that 30% of the reason why RH tires are so expensive is due to warranty processing costs(shipping, inventory loss, etc).
They look cool though.
The extralight casings do require a bit of extra time, knowledge, and sealant, and generally don't last as long, but the ride quality is even better. It seems the OP simply hasn't done the homework which is necessary to understand and properly seal up these tires...If he had, he wouldn't have these questions.
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Have a read about a very similar problem here. Extra light RH tires and sealant, even has photos!
RH makes it impossible to contact them by phone as mentioned above. While on Paceline have a look at the thread that mstateglfr mentioned because it is an eye opener.
You will need to go through the website to send off a message.
RH makes it impossible to contact them by phone as mentioned above. While on Paceline have a look at the thread that mstateglfr mentioned because it is an eye opener.
You will need to go through the website to send off a message.
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No advice but here's my thought.
About a month ago, I started the long slow process of putting a new bike together while parts arrived in the mail, and I only have limited free time.
The first task was mounting my tires. I used Maxxis Ramblers and Stan's Crest ZTR rims. I sealed the rim and mounted with soap and water, and left them. Figuring I'd only want sealant once I was actually ready to ride the bike.
It's been awhile, a month or so, they are still aired up and only a few PSI less than they started. Without a drop of sealant yet.
These tires are also as light as anything RH sells in that size.
I have never ridden RH. That ride better be better than God's chariot to justify leaky new tires.
About a month ago, I started the long slow process of putting a new bike together while parts arrived in the mail, and I only have limited free time.
The first task was mounting my tires. I used Maxxis Ramblers and Stan's Crest ZTR rims. I sealed the rim and mounted with soap and water, and left them. Figuring I'd only want sealant once I was actually ready to ride the bike.
It's been awhile, a month or so, they are still aired up and only a few PSI less than they started. Without a drop of sealant yet.
These tires are also as light as anything RH sells in that size.
I have never ridden RH. That ride better be better than God's chariot to justify leaky new tires.
Those Herse Switchback Hills I have in 650x47 with the standard casing do ride sweetly, so I thought I’d give the brand another go with these, assuming the EL casing was quite light for the 35c size at 303gm or something, but I didn’t comparison shop. If I bomb out on these, at least it won’t be the worst $200 I’ve ever spent!
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Have a read about a very similar problem here. Extra light RH tires and sealant, even has photos!
RH makes it impossible to contact them by phone as mentioned above. While on Paceline have a look at the thread that mstateglfr mentioned because it is an eye opener.
You will need to go through the website to send off a message.
RH makes it impossible to contact them by phone as mentioned above. While on Paceline have a look at the thread that mstateglfr mentioned because it is an eye opener.
You will need to go through the website to send off a message.
While, as I mentioned in the OP, I was aware of the sealing issues with the EL, I still haven’t seen any particular discussion about how the sidewalls were leaking. IIRC, one of the zines even used the term “weep,” so I thought it was a permeable sidewall issue, not one of actual holes. Did I miss photos of the issue in the thread you linked? I saw the sidewall cut photo...
As I said earlier, I did submit a query on the RH site, and if I receive a reply, I’ll post back here the official company account of my sidewall holes, and hopefully they’ll answer the question whether they’re to be expected or if they’re production flaws.
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Oh, I’m familiar with Heine, having been in some testy discussions with him years ago on some forum or other. I know he’s an opinionated dude, but, he and Bicycle Quarterly were right about the tire thing, and way ahead of the mainstream with it, so I give credit where credit is due. I mean, I think it took wide rims for what he asserted to make sense for me; I tried narrow rims with wide, low-pressure tires and didn’t like the handling impacts.
While, as I mentioned in the OP, I was aware of the sealing issues with the EL, I still haven’t seen any particular discussion about how the sidewalls were leaking. IIRC, one of the zines even used the term “weep,” so I thought it was a permeable sidewall issue, not one of actual holes. Did I miss photos of the issue in the thread you linked? I saw the sidewall cut photo...
As I said earlier, I did submit a query on the RH site, and if I receive a reply, I’ll post back here the official company account of my sidewall holes, and hopefully they’ll answer the question whether they’re to be expected or if they’re production flaws.
While, as I mentioned in the OP, I was aware of the sealing issues with the EL, I still haven’t seen any particular discussion about how the sidewalls were leaking. IIRC, one of the zines even used the term “weep,” so I thought it was a permeable sidewall issue, not one of actual holes. Did I miss photos of the issue in the thread you linked? I saw the sidewall cut photo...
As I said earlier, I did submit a query on the RH site, and if I receive a reply, I’ll post back here the official company account of my sidewall holes, and hopefully they’ll answer the question whether they’re to be expected or if they’re production flaws.
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Several months ago I posted in this forum a complaint about Rene Herse customer service. At the time I purchased a set of Snoqualmie Pass standard tires (not the extralights). After 4000 km with this tire I am really impressed. I have taken these tires over really rocky gravel road descents. Despite having no tread the tires work fine on all the gravel surfaces I have encountered here in rural Mexico. I just built up a second bike with 43 mm Gravel King SS tires. They seem to be as fast as the RH tires on pavement but are much less supple than the RH tires. I really like riding the RH tires on pavement and gravel. So in spite of their poor customer service ( actually non- existent) I will keep buying their tires. All tires set up tubeless.
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I like their tires and I have a serious phone phobia, so I guess their customer service model (email) suits me fine.
I've only set up one set of tires tubeless. They are the new 55mm treaded 700C tires (Fleecer Ridge Endurance Plus), and I used their recommended sealant, produced by Panaracer. The tires were a bit of a PITA to mount, but once they did, they have been fine.
I was put off trying any of their other older tires tubeless because the idea of sealant weeping through the sidewalls and coming off rims makes it sound like they weren't originally designed to be tubeless, and they have been labeled tubeless-compatible. Maybe I am being paranoid, but I would rather just stick tubes in them and not deal with the hassle (and set up with tubes, they have been great). I had one tire that developed a split in the sidewall, and they sent me a new tire and asked for the wounded one to examine. It may well have been my fault, but their customer service has been more than I could ask for (and I didn't have to listen to highly-compressed Muzak while I am put on phone hold).
I've only set up one set of tires tubeless. They are the new 55mm treaded 700C tires (Fleecer Ridge Endurance Plus), and I used their recommended sealant, produced by Panaracer. The tires were a bit of a PITA to mount, but once they did, they have been fine.
I was put off trying any of their other older tires tubeless because the idea of sealant weeping through the sidewalls and coming off rims makes it sound like they weren't originally designed to be tubeless, and they have been labeled tubeless-compatible. Maybe I am being paranoid, but I would rather just stick tubes in them and not deal with the hassle (and set up with tubes, they have been great). I had one tire that developed a split in the sidewall, and they sent me a new tire and asked for the wounded one to examine. It may well have been my fault, but their customer service has been more than I could ask for (and I didn't have to listen to highly-compressed Muzak while I am put on phone hold).