I Box As An Amateur - Using The Bike
02-27-21, 10:28 AM
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I Box As An Amateur - Using The Bike
I'm 53, overweight due to some surgeries (well really MY fault), and I box. My last boxing event was before Covid. I want to use the bike to keep some abuse off my knees. Please see what you think of the below and offer your thoughts.
Right now when I ride I generally like to train. When the weather is good and I can get out consistently I'll do several types of rides, going from intervals to distance to increased pace for a moderate ride.
Generally, anything that simulates a large effort for a period of time, followed by a rest, and then repeat, is good for boxing, both the conditioning aspect and the mental side to get used to it.
I'm not going to do two minute (the length of my rounds) stretches of all-out riding. I think that's unrealistic. However, I CAN do the below, which I'll name to give them a reference.
Flurry - Even within a round there are times of intense activity and then not. At this time of the season, I'll start with 10 seconds and work my way up to 30 seconds. When I get to 30 seconds, I'll not increase and pick a number of those to do and just go harder and harder at them.
Rounds - My fight rounds are 2 minutes, but I spar with rounds of 3 minutes
I was thinking of doing Rounds of Flurries. Meaning three minutes of 30-second intervals with 30 seconds of decent pedaling. I'd start out with a flurry which would result in three flurries. After a round, I'd bike real slow to simulate the rest between rounds and then do it again.
Some days I'll do these little hills near me instead of my rounds and flurries. At first I'll just do 9 hills (I always try to do triple match rounds) and then when I can do that I'll do them harder.
And then of course some days I'll just want to take a bike ride. Saturdays will be distance as I'm also training for a 100 miler in September.
I'm making all the above up, but it seems decent. Any input? Ever used the bike for boxing training?
Right now when I ride I generally like to train. When the weather is good and I can get out consistently I'll do several types of rides, going from intervals to distance to increased pace for a moderate ride.
Generally, anything that simulates a large effort for a period of time, followed by a rest, and then repeat, is good for boxing, both the conditioning aspect and the mental side to get used to it.
I'm not going to do two minute (the length of my rounds) stretches of all-out riding. I think that's unrealistic. However, I CAN do the below, which I'll name to give them a reference.
Flurry - Even within a round there are times of intense activity and then not. At this time of the season, I'll start with 10 seconds and work my way up to 30 seconds. When I get to 30 seconds, I'll not increase and pick a number of those to do and just go harder and harder at them.
Rounds - My fight rounds are 2 minutes, but I spar with rounds of 3 minutes
I was thinking of doing Rounds of Flurries. Meaning three minutes of 30-second intervals with 30 seconds of decent pedaling. I'd start out with a flurry which would result in three flurries. After a round, I'd bike real slow to simulate the rest between rounds and then do it again.
Some days I'll do these little hills near me instead of my rounds and flurries. At first I'll just do 9 hills (I always try to do triple match rounds) and then when I can do that I'll do them harder.
And then of course some days I'll just want to take a bike ride. Saturdays will be distance as I'm also training for a 100 miler in September.
I'm making all the above up, but it seems decent. Any input? Ever used the bike for boxing training?
02-27-21, 11:52 AM
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I don't box, but that sounds good, or at least a good start for aerobic activity. Seems like you'd also do weight work and plyometrics, but that's up to your coach.
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02-27-21, 03:20 PM
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In general what you are talking about is interval training. Periods of relatively low to moderate effort mixed with periods of high to very high effort. I think it's good to do that on a regular basis.
To some extent your terrain might force you to do it. Terrain that is constantly rolling up or down will give you some of what interval training does automatically without you even having to plan it. For parts where the terrain is flat, I suppose you might have to plan it, otherwise you get in a rut and never think to try to do better.
So what ever works for you.
If you ever get knee pain on your bike, then likely you are using too high a gear ratio. Pedaling should be stupidly easy most of the time. Especially if you have knee issues.
To some extent your terrain might force you to do it. Terrain that is constantly rolling up or down will give you some of what interval training does automatically without you even having to plan it. For parts where the terrain is flat, I suppose you might have to plan it, otherwise you get in a rut and never think to try to do better.
So what ever works for you.
If you ever get knee pain on your bike, then likely you are using too high a gear ratio. Pedaling should be stupidly easy most of the time. Especially if you have knee issues.
02-27-21, 05:18 PM
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You should just go ride. You're overcomplicating things to the nth degree. After riding for a while you'll figure out going harder/faster for various durations. It's not exactly complicated unless you try to make it so.
And you don't have to go all-out to make fitness gains. It's extremely rare that I go all-out, even in races (tactical nuances), but I have very progressive and systematic training improvements.
And you don't have to go all-out to make fitness gains. It's extremely rare that I go all-out, even in races (tactical nuances), but I have very progressive and systematic training improvements.
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02-27-21, 10:37 PM
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I wrote some suggestions based on my experience as an amateur boxer in the 1970s in this recent thread.
Yep, you can use cycling as part of your aerobic conditioning. I did for years.
It is not a substitute for leg work -- jogging, skipping rope, moving on the mat while shadow boxing, squats, lunges, etc.
You need to do both.
With good shoes and careful form it shouldn't cause any problems with your ankles, knees, hips, etc. There are lots of good tutorials for beginning runners on YouTube. A video of your running form can help spot problems with pronation, supination, etc. Fortunately I'm a neutral runner with only a little heel strike, so I've been able to avoid most injuries. Be careful running up and down hills -- that can cause some strain around the knee, fibularis longus, etc. I made that mistake getting too enthusiastic running up and down trails in December before I had enough base miles in. I switched to walking up and down hills until the strain was relieved.
You *can* substitute *some* bike riding for *some* running if you mostly tackle hills or sprints while out of the saddle. That will help strengthen the legs. But it's still not a satisfactory replacement for leg work from jogging, etc.
A few months ago I took a break from cycling after 5 years of cycling as my primary exercise to give my neck a rest -- I have chronic neck pain from being hit by cars twice, with the first collision breaking my neck and back in six places. I prefer cycling but it's an ergonomic nightmare.
So I resumed jogging in November, first time in 40 years. It is much harder than most cycling (with the possible exception of fixed gear cycling). And the leg strengthening applies to cycling. Even though I've ridden a bike only once a week since November I haven't lost any leg strength. If anything my legs are stronger now. I'm less fatigued standing to climb the steepest short hills locally. For me it's been so effective in fixing some gaps in my conditioning that I'll continue jogging after I get back to cycling this spring.
Yep, you can use cycling as part of your aerobic conditioning. I did for years.
It is not a substitute for leg work -- jogging, skipping rope, moving on the mat while shadow boxing, squats, lunges, etc.
You need to do both.
With good shoes and careful form it shouldn't cause any problems with your ankles, knees, hips, etc. There are lots of good tutorials for beginning runners on YouTube. A video of your running form can help spot problems with pronation, supination, etc. Fortunately I'm a neutral runner with only a little heel strike, so I've been able to avoid most injuries. Be careful running up and down hills -- that can cause some strain around the knee, fibularis longus, etc. I made that mistake getting too enthusiastic running up and down trails in December before I had enough base miles in. I switched to walking up and down hills until the strain was relieved.
You *can* substitute *some* bike riding for *some* running if you mostly tackle hills or sprints while out of the saddle. That will help strengthen the legs. But it's still not a satisfactory replacement for leg work from jogging, etc.
A few months ago I took a break from cycling after 5 years of cycling as my primary exercise to give my neck a rest -- I have chronic neck pain from being hit by cars twice, with the first collision breaking my neck and back in six places. I prefer cycling but it's an ergonomic nightmare.
So I resumed jogging in November, first time in 40 years. It is much harder than most cycling (with the possible exception of fixed gear cycling). And the leg strengthening applies to cycling. Even though I've ridden a bike only once a week since November I haven't lost any leg strength. If anything my legs are stronger now. I'm less fatigued standing to climb the steepest short hills locally. For me it's been so effective in fixing some gaps in my conditioning that I'll continue jogging after I get back to cycling this spring.
02-28-21, 09:42 AM
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Please post a video of you jumping rope on the bike, with your boxing gloves on.
02-28-21, 10:25 AM
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Thanks. I do weight training but no plyometrics due to my knee/calf. I do "boxing movements", of course, but nothing outside of that.
02-28-21, 10:28 AM
#8
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In general what you are talking about is interval training. Periods of relatively low to moderate effort mixed with periods of high to very high effort. I think it's good to do that on a regular basis.
To some extent your terrain might force you to do it. Terrain that is constantly rolling up or down will give you some of what interval training does automatically without you even having to plan it. For parts where the terrain is flat, I suppose you might have to plan it, otherwise you get in a rut and never think to try to do better.
So what ever works for you.
If you ever get knee pain on your bike, then likely you are using too high a gear ratio. Pedaling should be stupidly easy most of the time. Especially if you have knee issues.
To some extent your terrain might force you to do it. Terrain that is constantly rolling up or down will give you some of what interval training does automatically without you even having to plan it. For parts where the terrain is flat, I suppose you might have to plan it, otherwise you get in a rut and never think to try to do better.
So what ever works for you.
If you ever get knee pain on your bike, then likely you are using too high a gear ratio. Pedaling should be stupidly easy most of the time. Especially if you have knee issues.
So far, no knee pain on my rides. The pain comes from lateral movement, almost like a lateral collateral ligament (LCL) condition, but it's not that.
02-28-21, 10:38 AM
#9
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I wrote some suggestions based on my experience as an amateur boxer in the 1970s in this recent thread.
Yep, you can use cycling as part of your aerobic conditioning. I did for years.
It is not a substitute for leg work -- jogging, skipping rope, moving on the mat while shadow boxing, squats, lunges, etc.
You need to do both.
With good shoes and careful form it shouldn't cause any problems with your ankles, knees, hips, etc. There are lots of good tutorials for beginning runners on YouTube. A video of your running form can help spot problems with pronation, supination, etc. Fortunately I'm a neutral runner with only a little heel strike, so I've been able to avoid most injuries. Be careful running up and down hills -- that can cause some strain around the knee, fibularis longus, etc. I made that mistake getting too enthusiastic running up and down trails in December before I had enough base miles in. I switched to walking up and down hills until the strain was relieved.
You *can* substitute *some* bike riding for *some* running if you mostly tackle hills or sprints while out of the saddle. That will help strengthen the legs. But it's still not a satisfactory replacement for leg work from jogging, etc.
A few months ago I took a break from cycling after 5 years of cycling as my primary exercise to give my neck a rest -- I have chronic neck pain from being hit by cars twice, with the first collision breaking my neck and back in six places. I prefer cycling but it's an ergonomic nightmare.
So I resumed jogging in November, first time in 40 years. It is much harder than most cycling (with the possible exception of fixed gear cycling). And the leg strengthening applies to cycling. Even though I've ridden a bike only once a week since November I haven't lost any leg strength. If anything my legs are stronger now. I'm less fatigued standing to climb the steepest short hills locally. For me it's been so effective in fixing some gaps in my conditioning that I'll continue jogging after I get back to cycling this spring.
Yep, you can use cycling as part of your aerobic conditioning. I did for years.
It is not a substitute for leg work -- jogging, skipping rope, moving on the mat while shadow boxing, squats, lunges, etc.
You need to do both.
With good shoes and careful form it shouldn't cause any problems with your ankles, knees, hips, etc. There are lots of good tutorials for beginning runners on YouTube. A video of your running form can help spot problems with pronation, supination, etc. Fortunately I'm a neutral runner with only a little heel strike, so I've been able to avoid most injuries. Be careful running up and down hills -- that can cause some strain around the knee, fibularis longus, etc. I made that mistake getting too enthusiastic running up and down trails in December before I had enough base miles in. I switched to walking up and down hills until the strain was relieved.
You *can* substitute *some* bike riding for *some* running if you mostly tackle hills or sprints while out of the saddle. That will help strengthen the legs. But it's still not a satisfactory replacement for leg work from jogging, etc.
A few months ago I took a break from cycling after 5 years of cycling as my primary exercise to give my neck a rest -- I have chronic neck pain from being hit by cars twice, with the first collision breaking my neck and back in six places. I prefer cycling but it's an ergonomic nightmare.
So I resumed jogging in November, first time in 40 years. It is much harder than most cycling (with the possible exception of fixed gear cycling). And the leg strengthening applies to cycling. Even though I've ridden a bike only once a week since November I haven't lost any leg strength. If anything my legs are stronger now. I'm less fatigued standing to climb the steepest short hills locally. For me it's been so effective in fixing some gaps in my conditioning that I'll continue jogging after I get back to cycling this spring.
Squats (trap bar), lunges, shadow boxing (daily), bag work, sparring, etc. I do that. Basically, I train as a traditional boxer would, except for the things I have to eliminate, and I'm looking to substitute the best I can. I certainly don't think that biking and running are equivalent, but since things are what they are, I need to do the best I can. I'm still mobile in the ring, but I generally only do the intense side to side while sparring or in an actual match. I do general knee stabilization exercises, but they won't rehab this main issue.
Back to running for a bit. I used to be a forefront striker and it caused problems. I worked on my form and going to a mid-sole striker really helped. That was a bunch of years ago and I've not jogged since.
If I've missed or misinterpreted anything you said, please let me know.
02-28-21, 10:38 AM
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02-28-21, 10:43 AM
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Just for fun, here is my last match. This was after my FIRST knee surgery and I'd gone up in weight (my fault). Obviously too heavy. I won't be that heavy again and fight. I'm 260 lbs in this photo and should probably be 220 lbs. I'm working on that.
I was clearing my nose, not making a face.
I was clearing my nose, not making a face.
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02-28-21, 11:43 AM
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Hmm, I do not think that you can substitute cycling for boxing training but no harm as an extra for endurance, particularly if you enjoy cycling. I used to cycle to the boxing gym before the lock downs.
02-28-21, 11:45 AM
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I have a limitation and I'm trying to replicate that the best I can.
02-28-21, 12:23 PM
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My guess is that sprinting out of the saddle is as good as you can do on the bike for your training. Point your toes down like dancing in the ring and put all your weight into the pedals, do not lean on the bars, in fact pull up on the bar on the side of the downstroke pedal. At the top of the stroke, pull the pedal forward with your knee. You'll also need to ride seated for aerobic endurance. So I think you're doing it right. Great that you have an ortho!
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02-28-21, 01:47 PM
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My guess is that sprinting out of the saddle is as good as you can do on the bike for your training. Point your toes down like dancing in the ring and put all your weight into the pedals, do not lean on the bars, in fact pull up on the bar on the side of the downstroke pedal. At the top of the stroke, pull the pedal forward with your knee. You'll also need to ride seated for aerobic endurance. So I think you're doing it right. Great that you have an ortho!
02-28-21, 06:14 PM
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If gyms were open I would point you at an "assault bike" like in a crossfit place and whatever sets they do on those. That would get the arms into it also for your boxing as well as it being a bike.
If we are going to talk bike only, based on your flurries and round lengths...........sounds like you could shorten the length of traditional 40/20 or 30/30 sets to the length of your rounds. Repeat maybe 3x to simulate one of your rounds instead of 5 to 10x.
Go hard for 40 seconds, rest 20. Or for the other one, go hard for 30 seconds, rest 30 seconds. Repeat 3x. That would be 3min of work for a "round". With only 3 reps per set, you should be able to go pretty hard.
I go less hard but draw those out to doing them 10x. I've done some 12x recently. If I only go for 5x, I just hammer each one. For you doing 3x each one..........you should be able to go pretty darn hard. Doing the 5x ones I can't eat within 90min before, or it's coming up.
If we are going to talk bike only, based on your flurries and round lengths...........sounds like you could shorten the length of traditional 40/20 or 30/30 sets to the length of your rounds. Repeat maybe 3x to simulate one of your rounds instead of 5 to 10x.
Go hard for 40 seconds, rest 20. Or for the other one, go hard for 30 seconds, rest 30 seconds. Repeat 3x. That would be 3min of work for a "round". With only 3 reps per set, you should be able to go pretty hard.
I go less hard but draw those out to doing them 10x. I've done some 12x recently. If I only go for 5x, I just hammer each one. For you doing 3x each one..........you should be able to go pretty darn hard. Doing the 5x ones I can't eat within 90min before, or it's coming up.
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02-28-21, 06:28 PM
#17
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If gyms were open I would point you at an "assault bike" like in a crossfit place and whatever sets they do on those. That would get the arms into it also for your boxing as well as it being a bike.
If we are going to talk bike only, based on your flurries and round lengths...........sounds like you could shorten the length of traditional 40/20 or 30/30 sets to the length of your rounds. Repeat maybe 3x to simulate one of your rounds instead of 5 to 10x.
Go hard for 40 seconds, rest 20. Or for the other one, go hard for 30 seconds, rest 30 seconds. Repeat 3x. That would be 3min of work for a "round". With only 3 reps per set, you should be able to go pretty hard.
I go less hard but draw those out to doing them 10x. I've done some 12x recently. If I only go for 5x, I just hammer each one. For you doing 3x each one..........you should be able to go pretty darn hard. Doing the 5x ones I can't eat within 90min before, or it's coming up.
If we are going to talk bike only, based on your flurries and round lengths...........sounds like you could shorten the length of traditional 40/20 or 30/30 sets to the length of your rounds. Repeat maybe 3x to simulate one of your rounds instead of 5 to 10x.
Go hard for 40 seconds, rest 20. Or for the other one, go hard for 30 seconds, rest 30 seconds. Repeat 3x. That would be 3min of work for a "round". With only 3 reps per set, you should be able to go pretty hard.
I go less hard but draw those out to doing them 10x. I've done some 12x recently. If I only go for 5x, I just hammer each one. For you doing 3x each one..........you should be able to go pretty darn hard. Doing the 5x ones I can't eat within 90min before, or it's coming up.
Yes on your thoughts on repeats. The only reason why I picked the times I spend prepping for the ring is that it prepares your mind for that length of time. Sure I do 3 minutes instead of two (which is the actual length of the round) but since I spar for 3 minutes per round, I went with that.
I know that even if I do traditional repeats on intervals or my hills, it will certainly help.
02-28-21, 09:33 PM
#18
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Sounds like cycling is the best option considering your ortho problems. Standing intervals matching the length of the rounds and rest periods should help and be lower impact than other leg work. Luckily all my serious ortho problems are above the waist and don't significantly hinder most aerobic exercise.
Stepper machines might help too. Less impact, anyway. There will still be some joint strain.
I still tend to do intervals based on boxing training -- about 3 minutes on, 1 minute rest or lower effort. I did that when I resumed jogging a few months ago after a long hiatus. I still alternate between running for about 3 minutes and jogging 1 minute on good days, and jogging 3 minutes and walking 1 minute on easier days. The timing is so embedded in my brain I don't even need to check my watch.
Losing weight will help relieve knee strain and other problems. I boxed between lightweight and light middleweight but my optimal weight was welterweight, and I could get down to light welter pretty easily if I needed to. I'm at 150 lbs now and comfortable.
About 20 years ago my compact car was t-boned by a full size SUV that ran a light and clobbered me at more than 50 mph, breaking my neck and back in six places. I put on a lot of weight after that due to limited mobility for years. When I hit 205 lbs I was having knee and hip pain, high blood pressure, and early stages of congestive heart failure. The latter scared me because that's how both grandparents died.
So I modified my diet, cut out the junk carbs, started walking more, and finally got off the walking cane in 2014. I resumed cycling in 2015, starting easily, when I weighed about 180 lbs. Then cycling more vigorously. By 2017 I got down to 165. 2018 was a rough year -- hit by a car while riding my bike, then diagnosed with thyroid cancer. Had to go on a mostly liquid diet for several months until surgery to make it possible to swallow solid food again. Got down to 145 lbs but was still reasonably well nourished.
Since then I've hovered around 150 comfortably. I could lose another 5-10 lbs if motivated, but I'd need to be interested in some kind of competition to get the motivation. Maybe a time trial. I'm not really concerned about it right now. As long as I stay under 160 I'll be fine. And I have the stretched out loose skin around the belly to remind me of being overweight. That's a good thing. Keeps me from getting complacent again.
Stepper machines might help too. Less impact, anyway. There will still be some joint strain.
I still tend to do intervals based on boxing training -- about 3 minutes on, 1 minute rest or lower effort. I did that when I resumed jogging a few months ago after a long hiatus. I still alternate between running for about 3 minutes and jogging 1 minute on good days, and jogging 3 minutes and walking 1 minute on easier days. The timing is so embedded in my brain I don't even need to check my watch.
Losing weight will help relieve knee strain and other problems. I boxed between lightweight and light middleweight but my optimal weight was welterweight, and I could get down to light welter pretty easily if I needed to. I'm at 150 lbs now and comfortable.
About 20 years ago my compact car was t-boned by a full size SUV that ran a light and clobbered me at more than 50 mph, breaking my neck and back in six places. I put on a lot of weight after that due to limited mobility for years. When I hit 205 lbs I was having knee and hip pain, high blood pressure, and early stages of congestive heart failure. The latter scared me because that's how both grandparents died.
So I modified my diet, cut out the junk carbs, started walking more, and finally got off the walking cane in 2014. I resumed cycling in 2015, starting easily, when I weighed about 180 lbs. Then cycling more vigorously. By 2017 I got down to 165. 2018 was a rough year -- hit by a car while riding my bike, then diagnosed with thyroid cancer. Had to go on a mostly liquid diet for several months until surgery to make it possible to swallow solid food again. Got down to 145 lbs but was still reasonably well nourished.
Since then I've hovered around 150 comfortably. I could lose another 5-10 lbs if motivated, but I'd need to be interested in some kind of competition to get the motivation. Maybe a time trial. I'm not really concerned about it right now. As long as I stay under 160 I'll be fine. And I have the stretched out loose skin around the belly to remind me of being overweight. That's a good thing. Keeps me from getting complacent again.
Last edited by canklecat; 03-01-21 at 12:05 AM.
03-01-21, 09:45 AM
#19
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Sounds like cycling is the best option considering your ortho problems. Standing intervals matching the length of the rounds and rest periods should help and be lower impact than other leg work. Luckily all my serious ortho problems are above the waist and don't significantly hinder most aerobic exercise.
........
........
I am for certain overweight and CERTAINLY overweight considering I have a knee issue. I let Covid, that knee issue and another surgery give me an excuse to gain weight. My next fight was GOING to be in March but I didn't commit to it because of how it made my knee/calf feel. That kicked me into action and I'm on a very good trend now. Assuming I keep on that trend, I'll commit in March to a June match. From there I'll keep on a cadence that will make me be conscious of my weight. A downside is that I'm a heavyweight, even if I'm at a low body fat %. That means if I gain, I'm STILL a heavyweight, so I don't fall out of class. I'd say "just right" for me is 220 lbs, but once I get to that I'll let the mirror tell me if I need to do more. Chances are I'll stop there, but we shall see.
Even though I'm not doing the March match, I spar once a week, shadowbox each day (well maybe not EVERY day), do footwork, and all that stuff. I just don't do it as intense and I am able to take a day off if I feel I've done (accidentally or not) the wrong thing for my situation. During sparring I just spar and don't think about it and I'm find, it's the things like doing the lateral circles in the ring and other repetitious things that are the issue.
Sorry to hear about the things that have happened to you. Three things that could have killed you, yet here you are. That's applaudable. Those types of things always let me know that MY issues are really minor. However, they are my issues, so I deal with them.
I appreciate your input!
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